Out of what context? It seemed as if you were implying that, somehow, this proposed law would not apply to rich, white people.

I mean, how absurd is that? Such a law would be unconstitutional on its face.

Oh it will be written for all people...rich/poor, white/whatever...but seriously... do you think the good rich ladies of Somerset County New Jersey are going to line up for mandatory HIV testing?

Like I said, I'd like to see that.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

Rombuu?  Kiss my ass.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

My question is how exactly they plan to enforce this. I tried reading in the links but didn't find too many details. Would this be enforced at the ob/gyn level? Lou brings up an excellent point -- most people who have the money and are smart about it will be go for births outside traditional hospital facilities anyway.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

My question is how exactly they plan to enforce this

That's an excellent question because this is the first law ever that tells doctors that they must do certain things when treating patients. Until now public health measures have been entirely at the whim of physicians, with no legal oversight at all.

Lou brings up an excellent point -- most people who have the money and are smart about it will be go for births outside traditional hospital facilities anyway

That's the craziest thing anyone's written in this discussion. Where do you suppose that wealthy women go to give birth? To a spa? In a high-rollers' area in an Atlantic City casino? In the dressing room at Saks?

Neither you nor Lou is making any sense. Why would a wealthy pregnant woman not want to go to a hospital?

That's the craziest thing anyone's written in this discussion. Where do you suppose that wealthy women go to give birth? To a spa? In a high-rollers' area in an Atlantic City casino? In the dressing room at Saks?

Neither you nor Lou is making any sense. Why would a wealthy pregnant woman not want to go to a hospital?

'Birthing centers', for one. I am sure there are other alternatives as well. But basically, many of the testimonials (at least to me) scream "I've got money!"

Honestly, at least to me, half of the pitch for one of these facilities is the fact it's not located in some gangwar-torn inner city hell hole and you won't be in an assembly room labor & delivery area surrounded by dozens of women moaning and screaming. So yeah.

Oh it will be written for all people...rich/poor, white/whatever...but seriously... do you think the good rich ladies of Somerset County New Jersey are going to line up for mandatory HIV testing?

This is a decent point, something I have wondered about myself. On a related note the giant mega hospital where I live (in the inner city heck-hole) teamed up with some local "concerned action (faith based?) group" that was worried about all of the "bad parenting" that was going on. Therefore, every woman who gives birth from now on will be visited at her bedside in the recovery room afterwards by some busybody interlopers from said group and coached with helpful advice on how to be a good parent.

Now, I wondered when I heard this plan: Do you really think the hospital administrators are going to allow these folks to visit/bother the educated, rich mothers who land in hospital to give birth? Or, will they try to protect their revenue (its hard to run an inner city facility on just Medicaid patients!) by not insulting the intelligence of these groups of new parents?

I wondered when I heard this plan: Do you really think the hospital administrators are going to allow [some busybody interlopers] to visit/bother the educated, rich mothers who land in hospital to give birth?

The proposed law is about HIV testing, and has nothing whatsoever to do with "concerned action (faith based?) group[s]."

Why are you guys so paranoid?

Why are you guys so paranoid?

The question is, are we paranoid enough?

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

...but seriously... do you think the good rich ladies of Somerset County New Jersey are going to line up for mandatory HIV testing?

Actually, I don't think anyone will "line up" for HIV testing. It will be done at their physician's office, during routine prenatal checkups, and the pregnant women will almost certainly be seated or supine, in a private setting.

Can you think of any reason whatsoever why "the good rich ladies of Somerset County" (I assume you meant only the pregnant ones - and, by the way, Somerset County is not an especially wealthy area) would not consult with an ObGyn during their pregnancies? Can you think of any reason whatsoever for their doctors not to perform legally-mandated blood tests?

Somerset County is not an especially wealthy area

Ok, it's not wealthy...but, from the link I so thoughtfully provided...

The median income for a household in the county was $76,933 and the median income for a family was $90,605. Males had a median income of $60,602 versus $41,824 for females. The per capita income for the county was $37,970. The poverty rate is 1.7%, the lowest of any county in the United States with 250,000 or more people..

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

Can you think of any reason whatsoever why "the good rich ladies of Somerset County" (I assume you meant only the pregnant ones - and, by the way, Somerset County is not an especially wealthy area) would not consult with an ObGyn during their pregnancies? Can you think of any reason whatsoever for their doctors not to perform legally-mandated blood tests?

I can see a definite incentive for a doctor to not test in certain cases. Not for the right reasons, mind you. If he/she is a doctor catering to the well-heeled in suburbia, and some upper crust woman comes in to the office pregnant would he risk insulting a wealthy patient/customer by requiring she be tested for HIV? Remember, there is still quite the social stigma attached to this disease and I would wager more than a few healthcare providers would mark the state forms negative rather than risk having a well off client storm out the clinic door in an offended huff.

do you think the good rich ladies of Somerset County New Jersey are going to line up for mandatory HIV testing?

I think this is the first time I've seen anyone suggest that one of the benefits of being rich is to not have all medical needs met.

I think this is the first time I've seen anyone suggest that one of the benefits of being rich is to not have all medical needs met.

Such is the state of profit-driven american medicine today.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

The good rich ladies of Somerset County won't even notice one more tube among the bunch they're already getting drawn for standard insurance-mandated prenatal testing.  Their doctors won't call attention to the fact that 1 is for HIV testing, and the women won't bother to read the release they sign explaining it.

I don't really see the issue here.  Are you worried that your wife's precious bodily fluids will be polluted by the testing or something?

Humorless. Cretinous. What'd you expect?

"I don't really see the issue here.  "

The issue is the idea of mandatory testing.  That's all.  In the realm of things, as long as medical privacy is maintained and the results are used for treatment and prevention, rather than exclusion, then no...no big thing here.

"Are you worried that your wife's precious bodily fluids will be polluted by the testing or something?"

That's kind of a stupid question, don't ya think?  I mean, give me some credit, eh.  And as far as my ex-wife is concerned...she sells small quantities of her blood to rainforest tribesman who dip their arrow heads into the "precious bodily fluid".   You know...cuz it's toxic and all.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

The issue is the idea of mandatory testing.  That's all.  In the realm of things, as long as medical privacy is maintained and the results are used for treatment and prevention, rather than exclusion, then no...no big thing here.

Preach it, brother! Testify!

The issue is the idea of mandatory testing.  That's all.  In the realm of things, as long as medical privacy is maintained and the results are used for treatment and prevention, rather than exclusion, then no...no big thing here.

Of course the results will be used for exclusion if the doctor/hospital wants to do so... this is NJ we're talking about here, ethics is a college course rather than something you do in your daily life.*  In practice it'll just be one more excuse for bill inflation in most cases.  All that said, I would expect an HIV test to be standard procedure for admittance in most cases so the hospital knows if extra precautions are required for that patient; making this law just makes it easier on hospitals.

* My apologies to the horde of honest Jerseyans about to fall on me for that remark, but I've had enough relatives suffer from assorted flavors of medical incompetence in Jersey, only to have it waved off with a breezy "Accidents happen", that I expect nothing remotely resembling ethical behavior from NJ's assorted medical practitioners.

Humorless. Cretinous. What'd you expect?

Forgot to respond to this in my previous post, sorry.

"Are you worried that your wife's precious bodily fluids will be polluted by the testing or something?"

That's kind of a stupid question, don't ya think?  I mean, give me some credit, eh.

Well, it was intended as a sarcastic rhetorical question.  You answered it straight, so how much credit do you think you deserve?

Humorless. Cretinous. What'd you expect?

Check out the small government proponents...

Most small government proponents I've heard are concerned about the scope of federal power, not state power.

Most small government proponents I've heard are concerned about the scope of federal power, not state power.

And all the gun rights groups on the internet moaning and groaning about licensing laws for their pistol permits are complaining about federal power?

When those licensing laws are upheld through the expectation of a "collective-rights" reading of the 2nd Amendment, yes.

And all the gun rights groups on the internet moaning and groaning about licensing laws for their pistol permits are complaining about federal power?

I think they're mostly complaining that their constitutional rights are being violated.

props up medical industry profits

Except that it doesn't. Vaccinations don't have a lot of profit potential, in no small part because government agencies buy so much of the supply. Remember the flu vaccine shortage from a few years back? That was a side effect of (among other things) too few producers -- something which doesn't happen when there's easy money on the hoof.

Vaccinations

Who said anything about vaccinations?

make it rain you nappy headed ho's