Politics

Sheehan Done

pO157.

Posted to Politics on Thu May 31, 2007 at 06:55:58 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

After almost 3 years of peace activism and several arrests since propelling herself to the center of the Iraq Debate, activist Cindy Sheehan has decided to remove herself from further protest activity.

Cindy Sheehan was the founder of Gold Star Families for Peace, which she led after the death of her son, Casey, in Iraq. As she left Crawford, Texas, the center of her lengthy protest activity against the Bush administration she stated "I've been wondering why I'm killing myself and wondering why the Democrats caved in to George Bush." Further adding that she had lost a 29 year marriage due to the pressure and had realized "that Casey [her son] did indeed die for nothing ... killed by his own country which is beholden to and run by a war machine that even controls what we think."

Her resignation letters, wherein she also officially left the democratic party were posted on the blog "Daily Kos" on her son's 28th birthday.

The loss of a prominent player in the protest culture has caused many to wonder: What effect has Cindy Sheehan had on the "Fascist corporate wasteland" that is these United States over the past several years? How will the anti-war movement and debate be affected, if at all?

< Bad Blood.

I've had it with this muthafucking XDR-TB on this muthafucking plane! >

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by pO157, Iraq, war debate, democratic party, Crawford, Texas, President Bush, Cindy Sheehan, Daily Kos, Gold Star Families for Peace, war (all tags)
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2

Re: Sheehan Done

rombuu.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:38:24 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

If there was any justice this story would have run years ago.... talk about someone with absolutely nothing to contribute to anything -- and the notion that what you have to say is worth a shit just because you lost a child is revolting in the extreme.

3

^ 2

Re: Sheehan Done

skeptic.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 11:26:38 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

We all have political opinions to express.  Some of us do so online, other do so by camping out in front of the Bush ranch and having press conferences.  Whether anything that any of us have to say is (as you so delicately put it) worth shit, is always debatable.  Politics are complicated, despite the fact that most people crave simple answers.  The loss of Ms. Sheehan's son is tragic, but it does not necessarily endow her with political wisdom.  On the other hand, she certainly does have the right to complain about it, since she feels that it resulted from political ineptitude rather than from a necessary defense of the US against foreign enemies.  I would say that her viewpoint is as valid, and as cogently presented, as most of what I read on internet bulletin boards such as this one.  Of course, she gets more press coverage than we do.  But I don't hold that against her.

And in the end, I agree with her that there has been political ineptitude in the management of the Iraq war.  Don't you?

7

^ 2

Re: Sheehan Done

WMK.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 02:45:02 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Where does moral authority come from?

I would think one obvious form of contribution would be to raise a healthy child encouraged to  believe in their country enough to serve in its armed forces.  How is that contribution 'nothing'?  
How many of us have done as much?

I wouldn't say having paid for the right to speak with the blood of your children makes you automatically correct in anything you might say, but I can certainly appreciate how having paid a blood price you deserve to be heard.  

Just like being a card carrying conservative liberal bashing die hard neanderthal Bush apologizing GOP loyalist son-of-a-bitch who has no restraint or qualms about pissing in the faces of gold star families or veterans who object to being sacrificed in order to prolong an exercise in massive war profiteering by contractors who make large contributions to the same  political leaders responsible for running the war when they had actually signed up to defend their country doesn't make you someone with anything to contribute to anything.   It does make you more revolting than Cindy Sheehan however, good job.

"...when theft and high crime becomes obscenely obvious to even the blindest beer sucking idiot, it is always the Republicans who are in office." -- Joe Bageant

8

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Re: Sheehan Done

rombuu.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 02:59:04 PM EST

1.00 (astute, obnoxious)

I suspect your 3rd paragraph contains a run-on sentence.

9

^ 2

Rombuu Done

nmiguy.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 03:07:23 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Rombuu, have you no decency?  Cindy Sheehan may have been a shrill and annoting outspoken activist, but she was sincere, she suffered great loss and she led herself to ruin over her political beliefs.  The woman lost not only her son, but her marriage, her money, her life and was the face of the anti-war movement.  She was peaceful and disillusioned and led her activism in a peaceful manner.  She was to the anti-war movement what MLK was for civil rights, committed and a leader.

I admit, I was annoyed by her.  Her voice grated on me and her rhetoric sounded like leftist talking points.  I felt bad for her, but I also thought she was hindering the war effort showing a divided America.  But people did give a shit.  Because here was someone willing to put everything on the line to stop the war.  

Her resignation as leader of the anti-war movement is a passionate rebuke of the Democrats who have let her down.  

What is revolting to the extreme Rombuu is being so partisan that you lose basic human compassion and respect.  What Cindy Sheehan did these last few years is worthy of respect.  How many times have you been willing to sacrifice everything to enact change, to bring attention to a cause?   Zero, that's how many.  Cindy Sheehan feels her son died for nothing.  So she has aboslutely nothing to contribute to anything?  How about giving a son?  How about contributing a dissenting voice to the war?  How about contributing her time, money and energy to try and fix this broken country?  

That Rombuu, talk about someone with absolutely nothing to contribute to anything...

4

^ 2

Re: Sheehan Done

pO157.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 11:40:45 AM EST

none

"and the notion that what you have to say is worth a shit just because you lost a child is revolting in the extreme."

I agree. However the same tactic has been used by both sites. A quick Google search shows at least one example and I personally recall others being in the media during the election. Quite nauseating.

5

^ 2

Re: Sheehan Done

thefadd.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 12:55:21 PM EST

none

Everyone in America is free to express their opinion. It is a sad fact for her that it took the death of her soon for her to gain a certain level of political awareness. However, once she gained that awareness, she was a vocal and tireless campaigner for her cause and did not engage in the politics of personal destruction. She helped make politics a little cleaner and about what it's supposed to be about and deserves our utmost respect, even if you disagree with her like I do.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

6

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Re: Sheehan Done

rombuu.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 01:39:16 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

she was a vocal and tireless campaigner for her cause and did not engage in the politics of personal destruction.

""The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush," -- Cindy Sheehan

Yeah, she's a doll.

21

^ 6

Yeah?

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:35:03 PM EST

none

""The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush,"

You know what?  She's right.  Oh sure...we love to hate folks like Osama Bin Laden and any fucking Iranian...but Bush wraps himself in an aura of patriotism and downhome folksy wisdom.  He's a fucking terrorist, alright...he just has a better pr firm then that asshole hiding in a cave somewhere in Pakistan.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

38

^ 6

Re: Sheehan Done

nmiguy.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 10:20:49 AM EST

none

Rombuu, she may be hysterical, she may have a few loose screws, but cut the woman a break, she lost her son, who did Bush lose?  Bush doesn't even go to any of the funerals.  Won't even look at pictures of the caskets.  

As far as I'm concerned, Cindy Sheehan can call president Bush a terrorist.  Being agreiving war Mom does not mean that you have to lose your freedom of speech.  She's emotional and she has teh right to be.  

You and other conservatives are far too cruel to her.  She doesn't deserve it.  The woman has been called every imaginable slur and she has had numerous death threats.  

Yeah she's a doll.  Compared to the vitriolic right wingers who would prefer to silence her.  

39

^ 38

Re: Sheehan Done

rombuu.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 10:49:11 AM EST

none

I'm not attacking her... someone said she never engaged in "the politics of personal destruction" and I was just providing a counter-example.

This is America.. she can call people whatever she wants and believe whatever crazy shit she wants to.

53

^ 39

Re: Sheehan Done

nmiguy.

Fri Jun 08, 2007 at 10:13:53 AM EST

none

I'm not attacking her...

talk about someone with absolutely nothing to contribute to anything -- and the notion that what you have to say is worth a shit just because you lost a child is revolting in the extreme.

I'd say her whole campaign would have to be branded a failure.

In fact, her and W have a lot in common, as much as she'd hate to admit it.  Strong beliefs that may not have basis in reality, a vision they don't have the ability to accomplish, alienation of much of their original bases....

No you're not attacking her.  Saying she and Bush have a lot in common.  Oh no, Rombuu.  You're a doll...

12

^ 5

Re: Sheehan Done

zyxwvutsr.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 05:22:28 PM EST

none

...it took the death of her soon for her to gain a certain level of political awareness. However, once she gained that awareness
How's this for "political awareness"?
"We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now."

"Thank God for the Internet, or we wouldn't know anything, and we would already be a fascist state."


She...deserves our utmost respect
She's deserves no such thing. She is ignorant and spiteful and specious and probably not of sound mind. She deserves our pity, but not our respect.

20

^ 12

Well shoot...

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:31:12 PM EST

none

She's deserves no such thing. She is ignorant and spiteful and specious and probably not of sound mind. She deserves our pity, but not our respect.

Well hell, then.  Does this include the rest of the neocon movement?

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

23

^ 20

Re: Well shoot...

zyxwvutsr.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:37:40 PM EST

none

Does this include the rest of the neocon movement?
Do neocons deserve our pity? I dunno. I guess so.

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^ 23

Re: Well shoot...

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:43:43 PM EST

none

Pity is only condescension for the weak.  Stop wrapping your criticism of Sheehan in a cloud of misplaced pity...brand her a treasonous cunt and move on or shut up.  Z...there is no high road your folks can take in this war...best to just come out swinging.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

30

^ 25

Re: Well shoot...

zyxwvutsr.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:07:27 PM EST

none

Stop wrapping your criticism of Sheehan in a cloud of misplaced pity...
It's not misplaced: the poor woman lost her son. That's a tragic event to any normal human.

...brand her a treasonous cunt and move on or shut up
You, sir, are a vulgar, uncouth lout.

32

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Re: Well shoot...

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:14:55 PM EST

none

You, sir, are a vulgar, uncouth lout

Be that as it may...but I'm still right.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

11

^ 2

Re: Sheehan Done

keta.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 04:47:08 PM EST

none

Yeah, becoming an outspoken focal point for those that consider the Iraq war effort to be nothing more than a neocon circle jerk contributed absolutely fucking nothing.

I mean, most Americans still believe being in Iraq is the right thing.  Correct?

Even you, rombuu, blinking incessantly behind those partisan rose-coloured glasses, should be able to see that she was a factor in galvanizing the anti-war voices.  But hey, she wasn't singing your

18

^ 11

Re: Sheehan Done

rombuu.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 08:59:25 PM EST

none

Considering her whole platform was that the troops should leave Iraq, and considering there are more troops there than every before, I'd say her whole campaign would have to be branded a failure.

In fact, her and W have a lot in common, as much as she'd hate to admit it.  Strong beliefs that may not have basis in reality, a vision they don't have the ability to accomplish, alienation of much of their original bases....

22

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Re: Sheehan Done

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:37:03 PM EST

none

I'd say her whole campaign would have to be branded a failure.

See, that's the big downfall for you Neocons...you can only think in the short term.  

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

10

Sayonara, "Mother Sheehan"

gerrymander.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 04:40:12 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

Remember, back when Sheehan became a going concern, how so many chose to wax rhapsodic about the "absolute moral authority" Sheehan had? Do you think any of them are going to follow her lead and stop their anti-war campaigning, the only intellectually honest position remaining? I mean, she's still speaking with that same authority, only now she's saying that the country is worthy of neither her sacrifice nor the sacrifice of her son, instead of just the latter.

1

From the subq

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 07:32:33 AM EST

none

The Sheehan story is a nice combination of pathos and bathos. It's too bad that she got her 15 minutes of fame due to the death of her son. And it's too bad that she got her 15 minutes of fame at all.

Yeah, plus she got part of her fame from criticizing Dear Leader.  Fucking traitor.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

13

^ 1

Re: From the subq

zyxwvutsr.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 05:27:16 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Yeah, plus she got part of her fame from criticizing Dear Leader
I'm guessing you don't know what bathos is. Sheehan got famous for criticizing Bush, that's true. But the content of her criticism was inapt and illogical and only served to strengthen Bush because it helped people to understand that so many of the hard-core antiwar folks are almost completely divorced from reality.

14

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Re: From the subq

keta.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 05:39:23 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Yeah, what's that "strengthened Bush" polling at these days?  Something like 28%?

15

^ 14

Re: From the subq

zyxwvutsr.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 05:53:23 PM EST

none

Perhaps it could have been that low before now if there had been any intelligent, coherent antiwar voices. Instead we got Sheehan and her ilk: batshit crazy and mean-spirited.

26

^ 15

Hah!

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:47:51 PM EST

4.00 (funny, astute)

Instead we got Sheehan and her ilk: batshit crazy and mean-spirited.

Listening to neocons talk about sensitive and compassionate discussion is like listening to a David Duke lecture on race relations.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

36

^ 26

Re: Hah!

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 09:11:21 AM EST

none

Listening to neocons talk about sensitive and compassionate discussion is like listening to a David Duke lecture on race relations
If you say so. I personally do not pay much attention to either.

16

^ 15

Re: From the subq

keta.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 06:13:48 PM EST

none

Instead we got Sheehan and her ilk: batshit crazy and mean-spirited.

You don't believe in fighting fire with fire?

And for the record, there have been plenty of intelligent, coherent anti-war voices.  Sheehan's was heard only because her shrill insistence poked a hole in the cacophony of lies and mendacity blaring from the Bushies.

17

^ 16

Re: From the subq

zyxwvutsr.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 06:33:05 PM EST

1.00 (informative)

You don't believe in fighting fire with fire?
I do, actually, but that's because it's a proven method for forest fires. Fighting lies with more lies, however, is ineffective and will often have no other effect than to get one branded as a liar.

for the record, there have been plenty of intelligent, coherent anti-war voices
Name two.

Sheehan...poked a hole in the cacophony of lies and mendacity blaring from the Bushies
No, Sheehan became part of the cacophony of lies. Anti-Bush lies are still lies, you know.

27

^ 17

Re: From the subq

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:51:47 PM EST

none

Name two.

Molly Ivens...Jim Hightower.

No, Sheehan became part of the cacophony of lies. Anti-Bush lies are still lies, you know.

And those lies are...?

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

29

^ 27

Re: From the subq

zyxwvutsr.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:03:02 PM EST

1.00 (funny)

...Jim Hightower
Oh, come on: I said intelligent and coherent.
And those lies are...?
Well, for example, the idea the the war in Iraq was started for the benefit of a small subset of Americans, such as certain well-connected oil companies.

33

^ 29

I don't know Ken.

MayorBob.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 07:55:09 AM EST

none

But, to me, speculation (lies if you must) about the reasons for the war made by those who had no part in its coming to be is several orders of magnitude less damaging than the lies and bullshit fantasy than an administration hell bent on getting rid of Saddam at any cost and for any reason actually starting the damned thing, don't you think?

Illegitimi non carborundum.

35

^ 33

Re: I don't know Ken.

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 09:10:24 AM EST

none

But, to me, speculation (lies if you must) about the reasons for the war made by those who had no part in its coming to be is several orders of magnitude less damaging than the lies and bullshit fantasy than an administration hell bent on getting rid of Saddam at any cost and for any reason actually starting the damned thing, don't you think?
If you want to measure lies by the damage they cause then obviously the lies of those in power will have more potential for evil than the lies of the powerless. But that shouldn't stop anyone from pointing out that Sheehan and her supporters are lying and/or paranoid and naive.

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Re: I don't know Ken.

MayorBob.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:02:37 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

This is how you describe her: "batshit crazy and mean-spirited" and her and her supporters are "lying and/or paranoid and naive."  Even if I grant you that, what do you have to say about the architects of the war that cost Sheehan her son (which might be a reason why she grew so bitter about the war) and the lies, half-truths, paranoid delusions, and mean-spirited things they said and did?

Illegitimi non carborundum.

43

^ 40

Re: I don't know Ken.

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 02:18:27 PM EST

none

...what do you have to say about the architects of the war that cost Sheehan her son...?
Normally I would wait for a discussion that was about "the architects of the war" before going out of my way to write a comment about them, but I'll make an exception for you, MAYOR: They're bad leaders, and they've done bad things.

24

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Re: From the subq

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:40:49 PM EST

5.00 (funny, funny)

so many of the hard-core antiwar folks are almost completely divorced from reality.

And what reality is that?  The reality that Bush and Co. lied their fucking asses off to get us into the war...and once in the war miss handled on every level?..."You go to war with the army you have"... HAH!  Careful when you throw that "divorced from reality" meme...your folks are so fucking divorced from reality their paying alimony AND child support to it.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

28

^ 24

Re: From the subq

zyxwvutsr.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:58:11 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

And what reality is that?
The reality, for example, where, for instance, Donald Rumsfeld is so obviously not a murderous tyrant that no mature, sane person would compare him with Stalin or Hitler.
Careful when you throw that "divorced from reality" meme...your folks are so fucking divorced from reality their paying alimony AND child support to it
You've got me at a bit of a loss. I'm not sure who you think my folks are, or why you think "their paying alimony."

34

^ 28

Re: From the subq

skeptic.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 08:59:22 AM EST

5.00 (funny)

This whole discussion is turning into a spectacle of poor English usage.  Consider:  in comment #7, WMK employs a run-on sentence, which rombuu then complains about.  In comment #18, rombuu then tells us "her and W have a lot in common" which is a hideous grammatical error (for anyone who doesn't know, that should be "she and W have a lot in common").  In comment #24 Lou makes a terrible spelling error, "their paying alimony" (which of course should be, "they're paying alimony") which you have now noted.

When will the madness end?

37

^ 34

Re: From the subq

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 09:13:40 AM EST

4.33 (funny, brilliant, funny)

When will the madness end?
It will carry on irregardless of our pour powers to stop it with.

31

^ 28

Re: From the subq

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 10:13:38 PM EST

none

Well dodged my friend...well dodged.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

44

^ 13

Re: From the subq

Jackkeefe.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 06:43:21 PM EST

5.00 (astute, astute)

only served to strengthen Bush because it helped people to understand that so many of the hard-core antiwar folks are almost completely divorced from reality.

There is something to that, at least as it relates to me, whose only recently come around to the position that the troops should be withdrawn yesterday. I think in large part, I supported the occupation so long in part because I refused to believe that the anti-war movement's ultimate goal, withdrawal, was correct because its  most prominent proponents used such specious and ,in my view, idiotic, reasoning in support thereof.  Pretty much every time, Ms. Sheehan opened her mouth, or I read about chicken hawks, or  Bush=Hitler or neo-con conspiracies, I took it as an invitation to ignore the writer.  For all their vehemence, I found the anti-war movement in general profoundly unserious.  A rational case was there to be made, to bad it was lost in a blizzard of  name calling and conspiracy theories.

19

^ 13

It's true!

Lou.

Thu May 31, 2007 at 09:29:31 PM EST

none

served to strengthen Bush

Lol!  You really haven't met a fascist you did like, have you?

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

41

The debate won't be affected

3fingerspointback.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 02:10:00 PM EST

none

But hopefully the Anti-War movement will.  It's important to read Sheehan's statement to understand that her frustration is not really with the Bush Administration or the American public as much as it was with the internecine politics of the Democratic party plus various antiwar organizations, who seem to be more interested in promoting themselves than working towards any real change with the war.  No one seems to be willing to step up and say "we are going to work towards the end of the Iraq war, and this is our organization's only issue."  Sadly, this included Sheehan as well, whose cause morphed to include a crusade against general American foreign policy and a garbled message of class warfare.

Ultimately, I don't think Sheehan's resignation is going to matter all that much to the publicity of the peace movement, and sadly, there are several new grieving relatives who are ready to fill her place.  Gold Star Mother Elaine Johnson's story about Bush making a callous crack about his own memento for her dead son is actually at least two years old, but the fact that I've seen it rehashed on a couple of sites in the past couple of days suggests that she is being groomed to be the new Sheehan.  The Iraq veteran Adam Kokesh has also managed to get his face in the paper through his protests, and the Marine Corps is currently working on giving his profile a helpful martyrdom.

(is 3fingerspointback)

42

^ 41

Re: The debate won't be affected

thefadd.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 02:17:28 PM EST

none

If anyone really wanted to end the war, they'd be parading the armless, legless and faceless vets on television or at least youtube every day.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

45

^ 42

Agreeing in spirit

Lou.

Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 07:04:55 PM EST

none

One would think that would have an effect...if Americans actually cared.  Oh sure, we give Bush low marks for just about everything, but by and large, that's where it ends.  The war isn't touching enough people directly...funny thing too what with the 24 hour media and stuff like YouTube.  We certainly can see plenty of it, but it's just another show to watch.

There might be some hope though...if we were to do a death to death comparison with the Vietnam war, folks seemed to be less supportive of Bush then they were of Johnson at the same death level.  But, that's not even fair to Bush since Johnson and Nixon broke our war cherries a long time ago.  Notice too though that I said "less supportive"...why folks aren't outside the whitehouse armed with torches and pitchforks is beyond me.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

46

^ 45

Re: Agreeing in spirit

thefadd.

Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 02:59:43 AM EST

none

Don't discount the effect that daily images of death in Vietnam and images of caskets being flown home had on people in coming out actively in revulsion to the violence perpetrated on others by their government. If we had such images pushed on us daily, they wouldn't last long.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

47

^ 46

Re: Agreeing in spirit

pO157.

Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 09:16:54 AM EST

none

Were there more "embedded" journalists in 'nam, or were the ones on the front just more apt to publish gorey video than now? Or was it just that society was not "desensitized" to the violence as some claim we are now?

48

^ 47

Re: Agreeing in spirit

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 12:56:05 PM EST

none

Were there more "embedded" journalists in 'nam, or were the ones on the front just more apt to publish gorey video than now?
There was far more gore, by any measure, to talk about in the Vietnam War than in Iraq. About sixteen times more American dead, and six times more wounded. (I realize the Vietnam War went on quite a lot longer than Iraq has thus far, but the vast majority of casualties were in the four-year period from 1966-1969.)

49

^ 48

Vietnam ahead on points

Lou.

Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 12:25:50 PM EST

none

According to this site the count of deaths at the 4 year mark was 19,365.  Certainly much more bloodshed than we enjoy now in Iraq.

It's hard to say about the publishing of said gore though...we didn't have YouTube* during the Tet offensive.  

*I forget the name of that website that has really horrible images on it...maybe that's a good thing I guess.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

52

^ 49

Re: Vietnam ahead on points

thefadd.

Mon Jun 04, 2007 at 06:11:51 PM EST

4.00

We might be better off if the number were 19k. The enduring story of this war is going to be the amazingly high (already 15k+) number of seriously wounded veterans who are going to require million of dollars and lifetimes of medical attention. The reason Americans aren't dying is not because of the nature of the conflict but because of the quality of the armor and protection they are afforded. Instead of dying, now they "just" lose their hearing, their face, their legs or suffer severe neurological damage. Whereas before you had 19k dead and 4k injured, now you have 4k dead and 19k injured. Remember the 80's and 90's when you had scores of homeless, legless vietnam vets? That score will be four fold higher for this war if we get another President like this one who doesn't provide for veteran care.

make it rain you nappy headed ho's

50

Out of curiosity...

pO157.

Sun Jun 03, 2007 at 07:56:39 PM EST

none

If Spc. Casey Sheehan had been killed on the front in Afghanistan do you think that would have changed the results of the poll? What about Ms. Sheehan's original jaunt into activism?

51

^ 50

Potential worse than nothing

Lou.

Mon Jun 04, 2007 at 08:25:18 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

If Sheehan's son had been killed in Afganistan, it might be worse...not that we shouldn't be there, that's where we should be focusing our efforts.  I believe that had we used the resources wasted on Bush's little adventure going after the real perps of 911, we'd be seeing videos of Osama Bin Laden's hanging instead of Saddam's.  Had Casey died in 'stan, and that conflict was our focus, then no, he wouldn't have died for nothing.  As things turned out...big nothing.

As an aside...the whole Bush and the Iraq/Afganistan thing is like putting the search for your daughter's rapist on hold so you can find where you left your pliers...or something like that.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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