Politics

The Presidential Succession All Stars

thefadd.

Posted to Politics on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 07:21:07 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

It's fantasy football season and that got me to thinking about lots of "Best Of" team combinations. The one that struck me most was coming up with the best people who have held the positions that sit within US Presidential Succession. I don't think we'll get much debate on greatest Secretary of the Interior of all time so I'm artificially cutting off debate at spot #8, Attorney General, which has held some pretty high profile names in its time.

Best President ever certainly has gotten its share of debate but we can always dig a little deeper. One could simply take the best individuals at their post or one could go for the "team" that would work best together overall. If you can't think of any Presidents Pro Tem of the Senate to fill out the whole card, feel free to argue just those posts you do know. The only rule is, the person most have held the position you're nominating them for at some point in history. For example, you can't say "Karl Rove would have made the best Secretary of The Treasury Evar!" because he never was Secretary of The Treasury. Here's your lineup card:

1- President
2 - Vice President
3 - Speaker of the House
4 - President Pro Tempore of the Senate
5 - Secretary of State
6 - Secretary of the Treasury
7 - Secretary of Defense/War
8 - Attorney General

So, get your line-up cards ready and start putting together that all time best Presidential Succession Team. And, yes, I know was different in 1886 than it is today but we're using today's line-up for the sake of comparison.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by thefadd, Presidential Succession, fantasy sports (all tags)

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Re: The Presidential Succession All Stars

port1080.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:26:35 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

For my criteria, I went with people that were both effective at their positions and also made (or probably would have made) good presidents if they ever had the job thrust on them. 1- President Franklin Roosevelt - say what you will about him, he handled two of the worst crises in our country's history and got us through. No other president can say that. 2 - Vice President This might be a bit out of left field, but I'm actually going to say Al Gore. He pulled a rare trick among VPs - he did meaningful things while holding the spot, but didn't fight with or overshadow the President. Lyndon Johnson is a close runner-up, although I'd rather have him in my government as Senate Majority Leader (a position that is, unfortunately, not on the list). 3 - Speaker of the House Henry Clay - he dominated Congress like few have before or since, and in fact he put the position of Speaker of the House on the map (before that it was actually a fairly weak position charged mainly with narrow rule enforcement and mediation duties). 4 - President Pro Tempore of the Senate This one is tough, because Presidents Pro Tem aren't always the most active people (the job is filled by the most senior Senator of the party in power, not necessarily the most active or powerful). I'll have to go with Robert Byrd, simply because he's probably been the most effective guy to hold the job. 5 - Secretary of State George Marshall, no question. How many Secretaries of State have a plan for rebuilding Europe after them? Not too many, right? 6 - Secretary of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton - his vision for US economic development set the stage for everything that's come since. 7 - Secretary of Defense/War Charles Wilson (Eishehower's man). He oversaw the large reduction of US forces post-Korean War and managed to do it all efficiently and under budget. George Marshall would be another good pick, but he's already taking the State slot, so this falls to Wilson. 8 - Attorney General Gotta be Bobby Kennedy.

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Re: The Presidential Succession All Stars

wetkarma.

Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:19:40 AM EST

none

My criteria is based on people who were good at their jobs while they held it, and whom could have arguably filled the role as president if necessary.

  1. President - America needs a war president at this particular moment in time, and as such FDR is a valid contender. However his 'New Deal' approach to government created much of the problems we have with domestic policy today. Our fiscal bankruptcy 30 or so years from now can be laid at his feet, therefore we must look elsewhere. Woodrow Wislon comes to mind as he was a master at diplomacy and finance. However his blatant support of racist policies and anti-libertarian positions disqualify him for people of my political bent. Which pretty much leaves Abe Lincoln -- eloquent, visionary and savior of the union. His vision for what the USA should be resonates even now among many.

  2. No better VP than LBJ. Again -- based on the current political situation we need someone with an astute sense of politics - able to craft policy consensus (his major plus) and if necessary take over the war role when Lincoln gets assassinated.

  3. For Speaker -- Sam Rayburn is the easy choice. His reputation for fairness and integrity (refused to take lobbying money) is unparalleled. Greatest Speaker ever.
Plus it helps that the speakers position was placed in the succession line allegedly due to the fact Sam Rayburn held the office.

  1. this position is useless and as such its pointless to debate the merits.

  2.  Disagree on Marshall as Secretary of State (you'll see why later). No better diplomat than Thomas Jefferson. His international expertise and legendary international acumen makes him among the all time best.

  3. Ditto on Hamilton as Treasurer

  4. George Marshall -- when congress creates a special exemption (waiving the 10 year from military service rule) allowing you to hold the Secretary of Defense position, you know that the man has some skills. The man was a tremendous organizer of resources and plans, exactly what is currently needed for a defense secretary.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: The Presidential Succession All Stars

port1080.

Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 09:38:44 AM EST

none

his 'New Deal' approach to government created much of the problems we have with domestic policy today.

The thing is, a lot of the issues with, for example, Social Security didn't come under FDR but rather under later Presidents and Congresses that expanded the program without really worrying about what would happen if our growth rate ever leveled off. Anyway, I give FDR credit for what he did, even if it wasn't perfect, because the alternatives are downright scary. Hoover tried very hard to ameliorate the effects of the Depression with less radical policies, but he was unable to quell popular unrest - it would have been very hard for anyone to stop a socialist/communist uprising (whether political, or violent, or both) without going at least as far as FDR did. It was a very tense time. Despite his reputation, FDR was actually a fairly conservative reformer. Much of the left was pushing for all-out socialism or even communism during the 1930s, but FDR implemented reforms that, while they were fairly radical, didn't change the overall nature of our economic system. Perhaps it would have been better if he had gone further (it would have, at least, taken out some of the contradictions of our system, such as our desire for lots of expensive welfare programs combined with an unusual reluctance to fund them), but generally I think he did a decent job. I don't think we can blame him for our failure to realistically adapt the policies he crafted in the middle of the Great Depression to the economic circumstances of the following century (I mean, do you think Hamilton's 1790s economic policy would serve us perfectly well now?).

On another note, I do think Lincoln would be a good choice, but I'm not completely convinced of his perfection because his assassination made it difficult to really judge his legacy. He never had to deal with the "hard" part of the war, and I think that if he had lived he would have had a lot of problems and might not have the same sort of saintly aura that he has now. For example, Lincoln was generally very conciliatory towards the Southern states. His policies in occupied Missouri and Louisiana, plus some of his other actions and writings suggest that he would have allowed most of them back in with only minimal emancipation of the former slaves. Now, this may have been better (arguably, Southern white hatred of African Americans may have been less if emancipation had been more gradual and the white power base / social institutions hadn't been so radically and quickly altered and destroyed in the aftermath of the war) or it may have been worse, but the most important thing to recognize is that this plan would have clashed radically with the desires of Lincoln's own party in Congress. This is important, because Lincoln himself was very deferential to Congressional wishes in everything other than war policy (it was part of his ideology - generally speaking he thought the presidency should be a fairly hands-off position). It strikes me that if he had lived, Lincoln would have had a lot of problems squaring the circle of his desire to be conciliatory towards the South while at the same time maintaining the support of his own party. Also, Lincoln was arguably not a very good "war president" as he consistently interfered with military operations as well as appointed a series of disastrous generals before finally settling on Grant (indeed, one of his early favorites - George McClellan - was such a bad pick that he apparently considered executing a coup against Lincoln, and later ran for President against Lincoln, and probably would have won if the Northern armies hadn't had a few timely victories in the months before the election). So, I see where you're coming from with Lincoln, but I'm just skeptical enough that if push came to shove I'd rather have FDR.

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Re: The Presidential Succession All Stars

wetkarma.

Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 10:57:06 AM EST

none


Also, Lincoln was arguably not a very good "war president" as he consistently interfered with military operations as well as appointed a series of disastrous generals before finally settling on Grant (indeed, one of his early favorites - George McClellan - was such a bad pick that he apparently considered executing a coup against Lincoln, and later ran for President against Lincoln, and probably would have won if the Northern armies hadn't had a few timely victories in the months before the election).

Ah but this is what I like best about Lincoln -- as juxtaposed to the current administration, Lincoln got rid of people who weren't performing and had no trouble with exercising his role as commander in chief. I am not sure that I buy into the popular view of leaving military to do its job -- senior military staff is by their nature self-selected for caution (in order to have an unblemished record). The president needs to be able to direct things (even on a granular level if necessary) in order to keep things on track with the overall political strategy.

I understand where you are coming regarding FDR's reforms, but on the face of it, his programs did not do what they were meant to do. Many historians now think the new deal prolonged the great depression, and of course we are left with the legacy effects today. I simply can't get behind the New Deal -- it has caused too much structural problems to the body politic of the USA.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: The Presidential Succession All Stars

port1080.

Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 11:50:34 AM EST

none

Ah but this is what I like best about Lincoln -- as juxtaposed to the current administration, Lincoln got rid of people who weren't performing and had no trouble with exercising his role as commander in chief.

The thing is, Lincoln did hold on to some people too long (particularly McClellan, who he gave numerous chances to), and almost every single one of his promotions (other than Grant) was a bad choice. McDowell, McClellan, Hooker, and Burnsides were all awful in combat. Meade, the last commander before McClellan, came into the position by default (he was Lincoln's second or even possibly third choice) and, while he performed adequately at Gettysburg, he made numerous mistakes in the follow-up campaigns. To put it in perspective, we've been in Iraq for four and a half years now and had 3 commanders. Lincoln had five in five years (but also faced a much more desperate situation, and commanders that performed much more poorly). Making Lincoln's revolving door of generals into a good thing is, in my opinion, making lemons into lemonade - you might make your argument sound sweeter, but there's still a lot of sour underneath. Hindsight is 20/20 - since the North won, Lincoln's a genius. If a few things had gone differently at Gettysburg (it was a very close battle), Lincoln would be a dog.

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OT

thefadd.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 07:51:01 PM EST

none

RE: Lauren Upton:

Yeah, but nmiguy, she got the conclusion right:

so we will be able to build up our future for our children.

So, it doesn't really matter what else she said.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

3

Fabulous Secretaries of State

thefadd.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 08:07:07 PM EST

none

Secretary of State is an interesting one because it's the first on the list that is not attained through election. While Marshall is an obvious choice, I think Jefferson, Madison and Monroe all deserve consideration, especially given that they were eventually elected President. I actually liked what Albright did and thought she was very effective at carrying out her President's vision. William Jennings Bryan is a guy I'd have to give a lot of consideration too. It really is a shame Kissinger used so much of his brilliance to evil ends because the man could certainly get things done. Under the right President, I think he'd actually be a nice across the aisle pick. Nixon and he fed into one another's negative traits to such horrible ends (understatement). Seward also demands tons of respect for having the foresight to purchase all those acres of barren land that Russia held in our hemisphere, otherwise known as Alaska.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Fabulous Secretaries of State

port1080.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 11:10:34 PM EST

none

On the note of "interesting" - what's up with President Pro Tempore of the Senate being third in line? They should really re-think that. Almost all of them have been duds, historically. Some of them would have been absolute disasters (Strom Thurmond in his 90s, for godssake). If any of them deserve to be dropped, that's it. If they need a Senator, make it the Senate Majority Leader or at least someone useful.

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Re: Fabulous Secretaries of State

thefadd.

Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 01:56:44 AM EST

none

That's one thing that really jumped out at me when looking at the Presidential succession list. Other than president pro tem of the senate, everybody else on the list has a position that's rather "sexy" to begin with. It's interesting that it's an elected but position but one that's "traditionally" given to the most senior member of the ruling party. I guess that kinda shows you how unimportant it is. The sort of amazing thing is that there's a deputy president pro tem reserved for former presidents and veeps in the senate. that's the kind of frill and circumstance I expect to see more in the british or parliamentary government than the US.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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