Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit Pay?

MayorBob.

Posted to Etcetera on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 02:03:55 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

In the US, teaching careers are traditionally based on seniority and levels of education. Yet, this being the era of No Child Left Behind (NCLB), funding for the public schools teachers teach at are increasingly becoming linked to how well students perform on standardized tests. The idea that teachers' pay and promotions should be linked to student test performance is not warmly received by most teachers' unions. However, some local unions are wavering a bit on this as they negotiate contracts which do connect test performance with teacher pay.

National organizations like the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) and the National Education Association (NEA) view NCLB as a flawed piece of legislation. Both believe simply making student performance on math and reading exams is simplistic; educational success or failure is a bit more complicated than that. Meanwhile, the federal Department of Education is doing all it can to see to it that NCLB gets reauthorized with existing links to test scores. Yet, for all the opposition to linking teacher pay to test scores, a number of local teacher unions have signed teacher contracts which do call for it, with an assist from high level officials of the AFT.

Two of the local unions which have signed up for merit pay include Denver, Colorado and Austin, Texas. Both were hammered out with an assist from Rob Weil, AFT's deputy director of educational issues. Weil says that in spite of AFT's opposition to test score to teacher pay links, AFT feels "obligated" to assist locals which are intent on going down this path. Money was the big incentive to go this way, according to Louis Malfaro, teacher union head in Austin. Malfaro said teachers "don't make enough money, especially the good ones -- especially the great ones." Austin's contract, which was modeled on the Denver plan, will "expand slowly and be evaluated methodically to avoid the kinds of mistakes made elsewhere." Elsewhere includes Houston, Texas where teachers say the contract was implemented without their input, and Florida, which had to retool its merit pay plan following opposition from teachers and some local school systems.

Jim Guthrie, an education professor from Vanderbilt, says any plan that gets implemented without teacher buy-in is misguided - essentially dooming the Houston effort. Opposition to merit pay plans comes from bad experiences with merit pay plans in the 1980s, where the merit pay was not based on "any objective measure of performance" according to Susan Johnson, a Harvard education professor. Malfaro sees potential shortcomings to merit pay -- especially if viewed as "making money a different way" it will be a "fad" and fail. Those watching developments play out recognize that coming up with merit pay for teachers is not as easy as simply tying pay to the results of one or two tests. This is why teacher pay plans, like the one used in Minnesota, might be the wave of the future. Even if test results are the primary measurement, does it make sense to link teacher pay to snapshot-in-time test results or should you measure how students improve over a number of years? Johnson observes:

"It's becoming clear to do math well, you have to read well. So if students do well in math, do you give that math teacher the bonus? Or do you give that bonus to the reading teacher two years before?"

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Tags: edited by Port1080, written by MayorBob, education, No Child Left Behind, tests, teacher unions, money (all tags)

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1	Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P pO157. Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 01:35:57 PM EST none

It looks like a good idea on paper. However, it has some major flaws:

-What about those teachers in the hell-hole urban school districts? Who would you get to teach there if pay was linked to test performance and the children basically were uncontrollable? No chance in hell of getting them to pass any tests/learn/put the bong down and read. What talented teachers the urban areas have attracted will get out and go somewhere else, causing those districts to need to hire from unqualified or less qualified staff outside the area, possibly for a higher base pay rate to entice them. It's a net loss of funds. Plus the students still are in gangs, on drugs, in jail, and at a 3rd grade reading level. (Note: This may not apply to those students in grades below middle school, however if they are in a rough enough area that dumps students into a hellhole high school it is likely that their parents are in gangs, on drugs or in jail and thus the kids still won't have the tools for succeeding much anyway. All in all a extremely sad situation and one that will not be resolved by merit pay.)

-Passing tests = more money? Isn't this the exact type of teaching to the test mantra people have been railing against since NCLB? But without it the whole scheme is completely unquantifiable and would open the door to abuse by administrators and favored teachers. Which brings me to my next point of...

-How would you avoid the political bullshit that occurs with educators and their administration? One principal likes some teachers over others for whatever reason and gives waivers on scores or passes out the cash on less quantifiable results and next think you know you have excessive litigation ensue.

2 1	Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P thefadd. Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 08:37:12 PM EST none

It doesn't look good on paper. All this made up bureaucratic BS -- vouchers, no child left behind, merit pay, magnet schools, administrators cheating test scores -- they're nothing but a cover for the fact that there's no money in education. Why would I want to take a job in education when you can't even earn a middle class income? If you want your children to learn you have to bring smart, creative people in to teach them. No young person who understands to shits about the world today wants to try to live on a teacher's salary.

The simple fact is, rich people don't want poor people to get educated and take their jobs. And there's good reason for this -- a BA degree is now as worthless as a high school diploma. All it gets you is work-a-day job that can be shipped off to Singapore tomorrow and unlike blue collar it's not even organized. Solid education? You need to start talking about sending your best and brightest (or at least better and brighter) into the profession. That takes real pay, not merit pay.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

5 2	Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P pO157. Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 08:57:07 AM EST 5.00 (brilliant)

It doesn't look good on paper.

Let me clarify: It looks good on paper to disinterested and uninformed parties who give it a quick glance on some candidate's glossy flyer of campaign bullet points. They then vote for the person because they are "tough on teachers' unions" "Demand accountability" and "Have a plan for the future."

10 2	Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P zyxwvutsr. Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 01:01:41 PM EST 5.00 (brilliant)

The simple fact is, rich people don't want poor people to get educated and take their jobs

You must be a liberal. Do you know how I can tell? It's the combination of the deeply flawed logic, seemingly complete lack of knowledge about how things work in the real world, and the doctrinaire belief that the poor are inevitably victims of the rich.

10

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

thefadd.

Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 07:33:23 PM EST

none

Are you saying most people with money aren't opposed other people getting money at the expense of those who already have money?

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

3 2	It's Money That Matters uncarved block. Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 09:28:02 PM EST 4.00 (interesting)

Actually, I'm really torn on this issue, despite the chance to use a Randy Newman song as a comment title. While more money makes any job more palatable, some of the worst teachers I've ever had were in it for monetary reasons: either to make that last year (or five) to retirement, or to keep insurance by teaching part time, or simply to avoid having to re-train and find another line of work. The possibility that more teachers of this sort might stick around the system longer does not fill me with warm fuzzies*.
The problem with teaching isn't the pay, it's the kids, and that's something even doubling the pay wouldn't take away. If teachers are so underpaid today, I'd say market forces have a lot to do with it-- those who can handle the kids will do it for less (private school teachers make less than public school teachers, for instance~), and those who can't probably wouldn't stick around for triple the pay. The best way to get good people into teaching, especially at the elementary level, would be to reduce the academic requirements, IMO-- not that academics and teaching 6-year olds are mutually exclusive, but I believe there are potentially great teachers out there who aren't confident they can handle the college coursework. Cutting back on the pedagogy courses, and increasing (perhaps) the subject matter courses, might be a good way to ease fears about unqualified teachers getting into the system. Dunno, haven't thought that far ahead.
While you blame the divide between rich and poor, I see the larger culture to blame instead. How often are teachers the heavies (or villains!) in entertainment aimed at adults? Kids aren't dumb (well, not all of them), and they can pick up at about 11-13 that there's a difference between what parents tell them, and what they tell each other. When your folks sing along to Paul Simon's words, "When I think back on all that crap I learned in high school/ it's a wonder I can think at all", all of a sudden getting an A doesn't seem so important, eh?
(Sorry if this is a repeat of earlier comments from Plastic. Got a nasty bug this week, and my head still isn't all the way clear. Ten hours of sleep, here I come . . .)

*OTOH, I can see how qualified folks might be enticed to teach because it wouldn't lead to a learned penury. I just don't think that pool of people is very large.
~Why do they do it? Control. And a reduction in paperwork, but from what I've heard from those who've been there, nothing beats actually getting a chance to teach, instead of spending half your time on "classroom management."

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

4 3	Re: It's Money That Matters thefadd. Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 12:42:45 AM EST none

Just what I want -- the same people teaching my kids that scan me at the airport. I do agree with your point to an extent, though. If, instead of doubling teachers salaries they took the extra made up theoretical fairy money that might be spent on education and hired twice the teachers, thus giving them all half the kids, that would probably go the longest way of all to bettering education. Two problem kids of 15 is one thing, Four problem kids of 30 is just undo able and I know that's what many teacher's face.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

7 3	Re: It's Money That Matters gerrymander. Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 12:05:52 PM EST none

The best way to get good people into teaching, especially at the elementary level, would be to reduce the academic requirements

But this is a pay scale problem as well. Union teaching jobs link teacher education (among other things) with salary. Getting a doctorate for more pay makes sense if you teach high school advanced placement courses, but no sense whatsoever if you teach first graders.

9 7	Partially Agree uncarved block. Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 06:58:40 PM EST none

Yes, as long as pay is connected to both course hours and experience, there will be that issue of pay imbalance.
What I had in mind, though, and should have been more precise in posting originally, is to reduce the requirements for getting that initial BA. As it stands, the first reaction by legislators (when they couldn't throw more money at the problem) was to increase the requirements in course hours, and try to mandate increased courses in specialized areas. This makes sense for high school math and science teachers, but not so much for K-3 level literacy-- and IMO it often leads to the faddish trends in pedagogy that deserve to be mocked. Treating all levels of instruction the same has predictably led to some screwy results ("One law for the Lion & the Ox is Oppression", and all that), and that's one small part of how I'd reform American education if I got a magic wand.
One real world solution, though, that will never, ever, ever happen, would be for the pay scale to remain the same, but drop (or severely reduce) the continuing education requirements for those teaching the earlier grades. A reduction in yearly salary would be a pretty nice trade off for "perpetual summer school", at least for a lot of the teachers I ever met as an adult. Might well save taxpayers a buck or thousand on less than useful weekend "classes" . . .

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

6 1	Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P gerrymander. Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 11:58:44 AM EST none

What about those teachers in the hell-hole urban school districts? [...] What talented teachers the urban areas have attracted will get out and go somewhere else, causing those districts to need to hire from unqualified or less qualified staff outside the area, possibly for a higher base pay rate to entice them.

You seem to believe that this isn't happening already. It is, as anyone who's ever applied for teaching positions in private, suburban or magnet schools can tell you. That merit pay will make the issue harder to avoid is more of a feature than a bug.

Passing tests = more money? Isn't this the exact type of teaching to the test mantra people have been railing against since NCLB?

Yes. This is one of the reasons I don't pay much attention to critics of NCLB. Standardized tests had been used for decades prior to No Child Left Behind as ways to chart performance.

How would you avoid the political bullshit that occurs with educators and their administration?

The same way you avoid it now: with transparency and oversight.

8 6	Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P Lou. Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 04:28:22 PM EST 5.00 (informative, interesting)

Yes. This is one of the reasons I don't pay much attention to critics of NCLB. Standardized tests had been used for decades prior to No Child Left Behind as ways to chart performance.

Perhaps you should pay closer attention to them. Part of what you say is correct...teachers have been using standardized tests forever...what's new is how those tests are going to be used. Where in the past, test scores were used (ideally, granted) to see where changes were needs and to establish some kind of benchmark...now post NCLB, these tests are used more to punish than correct. Also, we can argue all day about whether or not there should be a punishment for failure...but, as I have mentioned before, the results are already rigged against public schools (unreasonable standards) and for private institutions(not needing to meet NCLB guidelines).

How would you avoid the political bullshit that occurs with educators and their administration?

The same way you avoid it now: with transparency and oversight.

This is a nice thought, but education is no more immune to petty empire builders and obfuscation than any other organization...and as stakes become higher and more schools are in danger of being taken over or shut down, administrators will seek out more ways to diddle the system.

This is all moot, anyway...the deed is done and k-12 educators and rolled over and pissed themselves in submission like the good little puppies they are. And if anyone thinks that merit pay will have a sustainable positive result, just ask Sisyphus how much extra money it would take for him to finally get that damn rock to the top of the hill.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

11 8	Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P gerrymander. Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 02:58:53 PM EST none

as I have mentioned before, the results are already rigged against public schools (unreasonable standards) and for private institutions(not needing to meet NCLB guidelines).

Private schools are occupied by the children of people who already care enough about their children's education so much that they'll pay extra for education. If you think this is somehow a disincentive to exceed NCLB standards -- even before they were enacted! -- you're sorely mistaken.

I also fail to see how requiring appropriate grade-level performance from children is "unreasonable."

11

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

Lou.

Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 03:42:54 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Well, if you're talking about a Phillips Exeter or such the like, you're correct. However, maybe it's endemic here in New England, but we have tons of Billy Ray Bobs Academy of Religious Correctness (ie - Christian Madrasahs) that stand to do very nicely should public schools start closing due to NCLB. The kids that come out of them are aces when it comes to a conservative skew of religion...but they can't do fractions and percentages (before you get uppity with me, I speak from experience). Kids that go to places like Phillips Academy, Hebron Academy, or Chevrus High School will ALWAYS get a better education than public school...places like Calvary Christian Academy...not so much.

I also fail to see how requiring appropriate grade-level performance from children is "unreasonable."

May I refer you to PO157's brilliant comment in #5? Perhaps that shoe fits? If you knew anything about NCLB rather than it's Feel Good What About The Children vibe, you'd see that the issue isn't about kids performing at grade appropriate levels. The way NCLB works is this: Say a school scores a 93 on its tests... Ok! Great start...and the next year they go up to 94...then a 95...then a 96. Wow, you'd think...what an awesome school. But, what happens if our hypothetical school stays at a 96 for the next 5 years? You'd probably still think it was an awesome school, but NCLB would beg to differ. See, our well performing school has failed to make Adequate Yearly Progress and as such is a Failing School. Now granted, this is only a hypothetical situation, but that is how the law is written. There's also a sweet little Catch-22 built into the law that I'm too hot to elaborate on right now...but it does concern what percentage of the school's population is special needs.

But...temps in the 100s or not, I can't let this one go...

Private schools are occupied by the children of people who already care enough about their children's education so much that they'll pay extra for education.

So...the working poor or perhaps even those not in the Investment Class can go fuck themselves, right? What a typically NeoCon thing to say.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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MayorBob.

Posted to Etcetera on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 02:03:55 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

pO157.

Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 01:35:57 PM EST

1

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

thefadd.

Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 08:37:12 PM EST

2

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

pO157.

Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 08:57:07 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

2

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 01:01:41 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

10

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

thefadd.

Fri Sep 14, 2007 at 07:33:23 PM EST

2

It's Money That Matters

uncarved block.

Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 09:28:02 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

3

Re: It's Money That Matters

thefadd.

Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 12:42:45 AM EST

3

Re: It's Money That Matters

gerrymander.

Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 12:05:52 PM EST

7

Partially Agree

uncarved block.

Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 06:58:40 PM EST

1

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

gerrymander.

Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 11:58:44 AM EST

6

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

Lou.

Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 04:28:22 PM EST

5.00 (informative, interesting)

8

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

gerrymander.

Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 02:58:53 PM EST

11

Re: Are Teachers Going To See The Merit Of Merit P

Lou.

Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 03:42:54 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)