Politics

Inappropriate Sexual Gestures, Wide Stances, Gross Hypocrisy, And Senator Larry Craig

pO157.

Posted to Politics on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:14:36 PM EST (promoted by 1fastdog). RSS.

The Intermountain West and the rest of the country is humming with the news that Senator Larry Craig (R-ID), who voted against gay marriage and is a considered a social conservative was arrested in a Minneapolis Airport bathroom back in June for engaging in lewd conduct. He subsequently plead guilty and was sentenced to 10 days in jail (suspended), 1 year of probation, and a $1000 fine, but it did not become public until now.

Barely hours after the initial story broke the internet is abuzz with discussion surrounding the incident. Analysts wonder what this will do to the GOP's chances in 2008 when a normally safe seat comes up for re-election. Bloggers mock the Senator's defense that he simply has an irregular "wide stance" when going to the bathroom and plead guilty to the misdemeanor to "handle this matter myself quickly and expeditiously."

This is not Senator Craig's first allegation of homosexual conduct. Although the most recent allegation of his gay orientation surfaced in 2006 when a blogger reported talking to multiple men who said they had sexual relations with the Senator around the country, including train station restrooms. A major local newspaper, The Idaho Statesman, had a reporter working on a story due to come out any day that claimed the Senator had been having gay relations since at least 1967 when he was at the University of Idaho. In addition, local allegations have him marrying just after the 1983 congressional page scandal to deflect any participation in gay sex with underage pages. Suspiciously, Senator Craig is remembered for making a pre-emptive denial of involvement in that scandal before there was any major accusation directed at him.

Meanwhile, Mitt Romney has removed Senator Larry Craig's "family values" video endorsement from his website and YouTube. In addition USA Today has revealed that the Governor's staffers have scrubbed any mention of his name from the website, even backdating sanitized press releases.

Tags: written by pO157, edited by 1fastdog, Mitt Romney, Senator Larry Craig, Larry Craig, Idaho, Mark Foley, gay, gay sex, gay rights, airports, Minneapolis, jail, probation, lewd conduct, guilty, senate, GOP, election (all tags)

This story: 26 comments (5 from subqueue)
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6

Re: Inappropriate Sexual Gestures, Wide Stances, G

ckm.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 11:07:39 AM EST

4.50 (interesting, astute)

What I don't understand is, how was his behavior a prosecutable offense?   So, he tried to pickup someone in a public place, since when is that a crime?   It's not like he actually had sex IN the bathroom.  He may have intended to, but AFAIK, you can't prosecute someone for thinking about something....

That's what I don't get.  Leaving aside whether he's a hypocrite or gay or whatever, why was this person arrested for trying to pickup someone in a public place?   Would it have been different if he was trying to pickup a woman?

?????

Chris.

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Re: Inappropriate Sexual Gestures, Wide Stances, G

port1080.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 12:47:54 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

He may have intended to, but AFAIK, you can't prosecute someone for thinking about something.... Well, you can actually - for instance, it's illegal to solicit a prostitute - you don't actually have to get to the having sex with her stage to be charged for that. Likewise, you can be charged with conspiracy to commit any number of crimes, even if you never actually get around to committing them. It's a fishy area of law, one that looks justifiable in some sense (if you catch a bunch of guys with written plans for robbing a store, a stash of (otherwise perfectly legal) guns, and a bunch of ski masks, it seems logical that you should be able to put them in jail for a while), but in another sense looks pretty open for abuse.

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Re: Inappropriate Sexual Gestures, Wide Stances, G

ckm.

Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 05:16:23 PM EST

none

Yes, but most of those laws have the concept of intent and the intent is to do something illegal (like hiring a prostitute).  Here, you are being prosecuted for hitting on someone, which is NOT illegal.  Neither is gay sex.  Nowhere is there any intent to do something illegal.

Weird.  The whole thing is strange.  I could see prosecuting two people for having sex in a bathroom, but that's not what happened here, no one even attempted to prove intent.

Chris.

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Re: Inappropriate Sexual Gestures, Wide Stances, G

port1080.

Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 05:34:40 PM EST

none

Here, you are being prosecuted for hitting on someone

Well, as far as I'm aware the prosecution is for propositioning someone to have sex in a public restroom, which is illegal. It's not just for propositioning someone. As far as I'm aware, if you proposition someone in a restroom but do it in such a way that you don't engage in any explicit or sexual behavior, and make it clear that you want to do the deed in a motel room or other private area, that's cool. It's just a problem when your intent is to do the nasty right then and there.

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Re: Inappropriate Sexual Gestures, Wide Stances, G

MayorBob.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:37:43 PM EST

none

Actually, Craig didn't plead guilty to a sex crime per se.  He pled guilty to disorderly conduct (which is I guess a catchall for those found trolling for gay sex in the airport men's room).  One would imagine that Craig pled guilty, without consulting a lawyer, because he reasoned that nobody would probably find out about the guilty plea, in the first place, and wouldn't be able to connect the dots back to the story underlying the charge, in the second place.

It really didn't take the Romney camp long to distance themselves from their one-time family values cheerleader though.  Mitt made it clear that Craig "certainly isn't on my campaign any longer."  Maybe Craig and Ted Haggard can join forces for the "New American Family Values Campaign" where both can see which one can yell "but I'm not gay" loudest.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Inappropriate Sexual Gestures, Wide Stances, G

thefadd.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 08:30:28 PM EST

none

Would it have been different if he was trying to pickup a woman?

Then he'd have to have been in the ladies room and I'm certain an undercover female officer would have charged him with something for that. I guess the looking over the stall where an undercover office is crapping is pretty much a big no-no. The tapping the foot, I think he could have gotten away with.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

24

Power is so hard to give up.

Lou.

Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 07:42:14 AM EST

3.00 (informative)

Just when you thought it was safe to return to the public bathroom...

Foot tappin' Idaho Senator Cruisey McToilet may not resign after all.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Power is so hard to give up.

MayorBob.

Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 08:35:33 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

The funniest parts about this:

  1. Senator Larry "Hand Jive In The Men's Room Stall" Craig didn't mean for this to leak out.  He was calling potential allies to give them a head's up (no pun intended) about this rudder change and he left a long voice message on someone's answering machine -- someone he called by mistake.

  2. Craig claimed the thing that made him rethink his position was Senator Arlen Specter "came out in my defense."  Well, that seems to be wishful thinking because what Specter did say was that Craig "should have fought the charge, if he is innocent."  Apparently Senator Craig is unaware of just how big a word "if" really is.

  3. Much of this is predicated upon Craig's lawyer being able to get the guilty plea rescinded.  If he does, he'll stay and fight the charge.  If he doesn't, he'll probably just go away at the end of the month like he "intends" to do.

  4. Those who would love to see Craig's seat filled by a Democrat might just want to root for his guilty plea to get overturned.  If the Republican governor fills the seat with a Republican who can walk and chew gum at the same time, they have a better chance of being reelected next year than the walking, talking punchline known as Senator Larry Craig.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Power is so hard to give up.

pO157.

Wed Sep 05, 2007 at 11:19:03 AM EST

none

Those who would love to see Craig's seat filled by a Democrat might just want to root for his guilty plea to get overturned.  If the Republican governor fills the seat with a Republican who can walk and chew gum at the same time, they have a better chance of being reelected next year than the walking, talking punchline known as Senator Larry Craig.

When Sen. Mike "Jesus, My Last Name is French, People!" Crapo ran for re-election in 2004 the Democrats did not even bother to challenge him. I personally would love to see what would happen when Idahoans are given the choice to vote for either an allegedly closeted gay guy or a gasp Democrat in a general election. If Craig keeps his seat through the rest of his term the smart money says he gets his ass kicked in the primary.

1

Plausible

Lou.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 04:49:05 PM EST

none

I was listening to Sen. Craig's speech on the way home and I have to admit that his rationale for pleading guilty sounds reasonable.  I mean, if I were caught red-handed...or perhaps even flat footed, I too would want to make the incident "go away".

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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^ 1

Re: Plausible

keta.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 05:44:26 PM EST

none

If I were a state senator, not gay and in absolutely no way soliciting gay sex in a public washroom, I'd have been hopping fucking mad at being charged and would have screamed from the rooftops about my innocence.  I would have enlisted at least one lawyer, and unequivocally stressed that an overzealous officer had completely misread and/or fabricated my actions in the toilet stall.  I would have forestalled any rumours about my allegedly gay or bisexual bent with a furious and ruthless denunciation.

But not Craig.  He pleads guilty and hopes nobody notices this painfully embarrassing incident.

My guess?  He likes gay sex, hates himself for these compulsions, and so leads a public life which panders to the homo-haters.  He's also a lying sack of shit...but then that's virtually synonymous with "Senator," so at least he's got lots of company on that front.  

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Agreed

uncarved block.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 08:18:52 PM EST

none

    The notion that someone who had been in politics for that long- even though he was never a lawyer- didn't understand what a guilty plea meant at that moment is more offensive than the "wide stance" nonsense. Add in that Craig had been personally confronted with being homosexual several times, and the "I just wanted it to go away" bullshit gets even more fragrant-- he had nearly two months to talk to somebody about the mess!
    What's also working against Craig, and why he probably copped the guilty plea in the first place, is the "he said, he said" element to the encounter. It wouldn't be outside the bounds of the possible for conservatives to go after an undercover airport agent-- but it would be really fucking stupid. The whole "reverse hypocrisy" argument (check the wiki) will play with the echo chamber, but it's more of a desperation move. Americans recognize hypocrisy when they see it, and while this is no Foley, it's pretty stinky.
   Will Craig step down? Dunno. His political career is over, unless Idaho has changed drastically since I lived in eastern Washington, but I see no reason why the party would push him out before then: his vote on conservative bills will now be even more of a dead certainty than ever (not saying much), and it's not like he was a real camera hound on CSPAN-2 anyway.
    Tawdry. Tawdry all around, and it makes me wish that queer bashing wasn't such a guaranteed path to respectability in the Republican party.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

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Re: Plausible

gerrymander.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 03:32:13 PM EST

none

He's also a lying sack of shit...but then that's virtually synonymous with "Senator,"

... and almost every gay man older than 40. The descriptive phrase used to be "closeted," and at one time it was considered bad form to call attention to it.

On can only imagine how the gay rights movement would have been different if every gay man in the 70s and 80s met with vitriolic hatred for being "lying sacks of shit" as well as for being gay, and if the gay acceptance movement was soundly rejected by the rest of society at the time.

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Re: Plausible

Lou.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 08:29:32 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

On can only imagine how the gay rights movement would have been different if every gay man in the 70s and 80s met with vitriolic hatred for being "lying sacks of shit" as well as for being gay

We can only guess...especially since homosexuals of all stripes were met with vitriolic hatred just for existing.  Society might have been too busy for any other kind of hatred.

Also, just so you know...he's a lying sack of shit not for being closeted. He's a lying sack of shit because he actively worked (some might say with vitriol) against the people he wanted to suck.  See...if Fredrick Douglas was a slave owner in secret, he would be a "lying sack of shit" for that reason...not because he was a black man.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Plausible

gerrymander.

Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 11:18:11 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

He's a lying sack of shit because he actively worked (some might say with vitriol) against the people he wanted to suck.

For some gays, that's part of being closeted. The trope of "he's so homophobic he has to be gay" is a cliché even outside of the gay lifestyle.

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Re: Plausible

keta.

Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 05:05:51 PM EST

none

I couldn't care less if he's fucking seagulls and closeted - because that's not why I called him a lying sack of shit.

Watch his presser again, gerry, and see if you can spot the lies.

2

"I Am Not Gay."

MayorBob.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 05:38:03 PM EST

none

Proclaiming he loves his wife, Craig called the Idaho paper's reporting a "witch hunt" and said he intends to run for reelection.  He said he made a "poor decision" when he pled guilty to charges of trying to solicit an undercover officer for sex.

Meanwhile, there are questions why it took three months for a story to break about the arrest of a Republican family values-type for soliciting gay sex in a restroom (is the technical term for that a "George Michael")?  A local reporter offered four reasons in the previous link:

Airport Police are a pain in the neck... and extremely secretive. Even yesterday, no one would come back to the office to send us the report or give us the mug shot. "They close at 4 p.m." is what I was told.

  1. Because airport police is separate from Minneapolis Police, or the Sheriff's office, media would have to go to the airport to request reports. The arrest information doesn't leave their property, and as the charge was a minor charge, I don't think it even went to the county attorney. It was like a ticket.

  2. No one locally would raise an eyebrow about a "disorderly conduct" at the airport for a guy named Larry Craig even if they saw the report's front page.

  3. The plea deal at the courthouse happened the week after the bridge collapse. So the usual suspects who would have tipped someone off, were too busy with other things to even concentrate on this.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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^ 2

As long as we're quoting...

Lou.

Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 09:48:18 PM EST

none

I love how he said, "I did not have sex with that man...or any other man".

Comedy gold.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

14

The Tape

thefadd.

Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:51:35 PM EST

none

The tape of Craig's interrogation has been released and after reading this, it does seem like these sorts of "sex solicitation" stings are aimed at gay men. I mean don't straight men solicit "chicks" for sex all the time pretty much without fear of retribution? I'm sure if women were in charge there'd be a lot more stings for guys who whistle from their cars and ask "But can you have a friend?" It seems to me that this is pretty much only instituted because (ostensibly) straight men don't won't to be accosted in public by "teh gays."

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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The Cops Called It

pO157.

Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 04:00:45 PM EST

none

On the audio tape at the end: "Embarrassing... embarrassing... no wonder why you're going down the tubes."

Seriously, WTF was Craig thinking he could get out of that interrogation without them pressing charges? He should have STFU and went to court and cried on the steps about how "unfair" it was an activist liberal cop in a hippy-airport was trying to frame him for something he would never do, etc.

Any idiot who has seen Law & Order knows that the cops really are not your friend as much as they claim at the start of the police interview and it is best just to get a lawyer, shut up, and fight another day. Hell, he ended up finding out for sure when they started mocking him at the end.

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Actually, That Make Me Wonder

uncarved block.

Sun Sep 02, 2007 at 01:27:50 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

how many times Craig might have gone through this before, and managed to talk (or bluster, rather) his way out of trouble. If he's been at this kind of cruising for over twenty years- on and off, to be sure- then it seems rather likely this wasn't his first run in with security. Or maybe I have an active imagination, though it would make more sense of his actions at the time than anything Craig's saying now . . .

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

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Re: The Cops Called It

thefadd.

Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 04:21:14 PM EST

none

I've heard defense attorneys opine time and again that a solid percentage of people don't get convicted because of what got them arrested but because of what they said after they got arrested. You can't talk your way out of any charges but you sure as hell can talk your way into them.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: The Cops Called It

pO157.

Fri Aug 31, 2007 at 04:28:40 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Exactly. The defense would simply paint the cop as some guy who wants to make a name for himself and found a way to do it by busting a US Senator.

Either that or a total creepy officer who volunteers to hang out in bathrooms and rest stops all day long.

But but blabbing (and to a much larger extent, pleading guilty) Craig made sure everybody knows he is guilty as hell.

20

Too much irony in the diet

Lou.

Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 08:51:19 PM EST

none

Here's a fun bit of news...Now that Sen Craig (R-Minn. airport men's stall 3rd from the right) has declared he is done, the governor of Idaho has to pick his replacement.  The governor?  His name is C.L 'Butch' Otter.  Feel free to laugh like a jr. high schooler.  

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Governor Otter's Press Conference.

MayorBob.

Sat Sep 01, 2007 at 11:54:16 PM EST

none

My fellow Idahoans, today is a day we all had hoped would never come.  But the unfortunate events of the past week have eventuated in the early retirement from politics of one of Idaho's favorite, albeit utterly disgraced, sons -- Larry Craig.  As he said in his press conference with his beard, er, lovely wife standing by his side, he had brought shame on all of us in Idaho, but especially on Republicans.  But you can't hold an entire political party responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the entire political system -- Democrats as well as Republicans? And if the entire political system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our society in general? I put it to you, my fellow citizens - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you Democrats and Libertarians and haters of America can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Ladies and gentlemen, it is with great pride and the hope that we can turn the corner from this sordid low in the annals of American political life that I hereby announce the appointment of a truly great American to succeed Larry Craig -- Mr. John Blutarski!

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Too much irony in the diet

pO157.

Mon Sep 03, 2007 at 09:30:03 AM EST

none

The last one was named "Dirk*." The state has a tradition of electing hardcore governors.

*=Interestingly, when he was confirmed Secretary of the Interior, he was out of the state at various meetings in DC. At that point he faxed his letter of resignation home to the capital and did not even grace the Gem State with a farewell tour like Mr. Craig's. So who is the better Idahoan?

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