Business

Whatcha gonna do with all that junk, all that junk inside America's trunk?

pO157.

Posted to Business on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 08:11:05 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Think the trade deficit with China is bad? You are correct. Think the freighters and tramp steamers head back to the Orient empty after disgorging their plastic trinkets onto American shores? You are wrong.

Junk - auto wrecks, computers, bent metal sheeting, extra pieces from when you tried to assemble that treadmill yourself, all of it keeps piling up around this country. It used to be difficult to get rid of, and you would have to hire a junk hauler to remove it all or wait for bulk trash day. Now, people will pay good money for your unwanted metal scrap. Thieves will even break into your house and disassemble it while you sleep, since the more benign but less secure items have probably already been stolen and sold for cash -- even online.
China's insatiable demand for scrap has grown so high that 3rd world countries have been forced to impose bans on metal exports to keep thieves from dismantling infrastructure to sell overseas.

As we consume products, we create more scrap, which is then shipped to China. It is part of a $65B industry that employs 50,000 Americans. What is great about it is that once the scrap gets sold to China, it is simply recycled into crap and sold back to us. Almost 60% of all scrap reclaimed this year has gone to China, up from a still ravenous 42% last year.

Who else is happy besides China and the Metal Processing companies (including Metal Management whose stocks are soaring almost 70% higher this year than last)? Environmentalists, who are thrilled that the rising junk prices are causing people to pick through trash and recycle, thus reducing the amount of space needed at landfills. They view it as sort of a free-market solution to the energy and environment problem that sprung up by itself and does not need any type of management to be successful, unlike the artificial carbon credit trading scheme.

Tags: written by pO157, Sandford and Son, Metal Management, Red Foxx, China, ChiComm, Scrap, metal, Sanford and Son, edited by port1080 (all tags)

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4

On the way to work

Lou.

Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 06:56:33 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

I pass over a bridge that snuggles right up a dock that loads scrap metal for Asian markets.  I held up my new Sony camcorder so it could see and told it that it started life in a place like that and sometime, a very very long time from now (or until the warranty runs out) it will retire to a place just like and given the opportunity to be Born Again.  ...maybe this time as a toaster oven?

I think it cried a  little...but they were happy tears.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

1

Re: Whatcha gonna do with all that junk, all that

thefadd.

Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 02:46:16 PM EST

none

I remember nearly 2 decades ago when people were stealing lamp posts and street signs to sell for scrap. Ah, to live in the halcyon days of a Bush presidency...

Carbon Credits are the biggest load of bunk this side of...hell, a load of bunk would be worth more. At least you could sell it to bunk scrappers. Anyone know how to become a carbon credit dealer?

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

5

^ 1

Re: Whatcha gonna do with all that junk, all that

secretpath.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 04:06:05 AM EST

5.00 (informative, informative)

I don't mean to be too pedantic here, but when you say "Carbon Credits," are you talking about emissions trading, where a fixed amount of carbon emissions are traded within a regulated market framework, or carbon offsets, where you pay to have someone else to reduce emissions so you don't have to?

Emissions trading markets usually involve major polluters and are subject to auditing. The carbon credits mentioned in the writeup are simply the currency in which the emissions trading market functions. Whether or not emissions trading is the best way to address climate change is up for debate, but you could hardly call it a load of bunk, unless you're one who doesn't believe that climate change is happening at all.

Carbon offsets, on the other hand, usually aren't subject to the same oversight, so there's good reason to be skeptical. While it's possible for carbon offset companies to buy and sell credits on the major markets (thereby taking a certain number of credits "out of circulation"), most of them buy and sell from entities whose emissions aren't covered by market audits. This can lead to all sorts of dodgy accounting, which we've seen exposed repeatedly over the past year or so - offset brokers taking credit for emissions that would have happened regardless of their involvement, or paying the carbon "sellers" much less than they're charging the "buyers," etc.

Anyhow, you can slag on carbon trading all you want, but just make sure that you know what you're slagging.

-secretpath

Everything that needs to be said has already been said, but since no one was listening, we must begin again. -Andre Gide

7

^ 5

Re: Whatcha gonna do with all that junk, all that

thefadd.

Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 12:31:29 AM EST

none

Whether or not emissions trading is the best way to address climate change is up for debate, but you could hardly call it a load of bunk, unless you're one who doesn't believe that climate change is happening at all.

Your conclusion is not supported by your assertion. Please elaborate, specifically by demonstrating how:

Emissions trading markets usually involve major polluters and are subject to auditing. The carbon credits mentioned in the writeup are simply the currency in which the emissions trading market functions.

is not a load of bunk.

Feel free to be pedantic. I find it quite amusing.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

8

^ 7

No, _you_ elaborate.

secretpath.

Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 04:44:29 AM EST

none

I don't understand what you're asking here. Unless you explain your reasoning for thinking that emissions trading markets are a load of bunk, I have nothing to refute.

Emissions markets are simply regulatory mechanisms for limiting the amount of pollution that participants can produce. As long as they are monitored and enforced, they should achieve that purpose.

-secretpath

Everything that needs to be said has already been said, but since no one was listening, we must begin again. -Andre Gide

9

^ 8

Re: No, _you_ elaborate.

thefadd.

Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 02:21:00 PM EST

none

Unless you explain your reasoning for thinking that emissions trading markets are a load of bunk, I have nothing to refute.

Really? Are we in backwards world today? I kinda thought the onus might be on the person arguing for implementation of the new and controversial policy idea to demonstrate said policy's value, especially given that the Chicago Exchange, to use your example, is based on the first EU model that already had to be scrapped after it collapsed from being an unsustainable market -- something ponzi scheme-esque concepts based on bunk have a tendency to do here and there. But that's just me.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

2

^ 1

Re: Whatcha gonna do with all that junk, all that

pO157.

Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 03:59:12 PM EST

none

I imagine it involves slicked back hair, clashing outfits, and gold chains. Possibly gaudy commercials on TV and the sides of buses with your name on it and a catch phrase of some kind.

3

^ 1

Here's a bit of information about that.

MayorBob.

Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 04:46:17 PM EST

none

There is a small, but burgeoning, market for carbon offsets but the math seems to be a bit off.  For less than $100 a year I could fire up my Hummer and blow as much exhaust all over the Delaware Valley as I want and feel no guilt.  Well, I could if I owned a Hummer, so what's the offset for a Lexus ES300?

Anyhow, as the article points out, the producers of Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" totalled up the total carbon cost of the film (production & marketing) at about $1,000.  They donated that amount to two eco-friendly operations in Alaska and Pennsylvania.  Of course the donation didn't go far to cover the eco-friendly operations' cost of doing whatever it was they were doing to make us all green all over.  As of last May, the movie had earned $24 million plus at the box office (so sez BoxOfficeMojo), so that $1,000 hardly broke the bank (and was probably factored into the overall cost of the movie).

Illegitimi non carborundum.

6

What goes around...

secretpath.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 04:08:26 AM EST

none

If you want to see what the manufacturing and recycling of all the junk that we send to China actually looks like, try to find the documentary "Manufactured Landscapes," about the work of the photographer Edward Burtynsky (you can watch part of it on YouTube - the bit about recycling in China starts around 2 minutes in).

China has officially banned imports of e-waste because of all the environmental problems that have resulted from the recycling operations, but it's still arriving in massive amounts. While it's good that all these things get recycled, it's worth remembering that the waste materials (and the problems they create) never really go away completely, so rather than avoiding an environmental disaster, we may just be exporting it.

-secretpath

Everything that needs to be said has already been said, but since no one was listening, we must begin again. -Andre Gide

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