Legal

Silence > Death

pO157.

Posted to Legal on Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 07:56:07 PM EST (promoted by 1fastdog). RSS.

A Google news search for "shootings" or "drive by" will spit back many sad stories of lives (some innocent victims, some not) cut short by violence. Sometimes there are quick arrests, but a frightening trend is an increase of murders in public where the majority of witnesses refuse to cooperate with police for fear of retaliation or being labeled a "snitch."

Even in Berkley, Missouri, police recently came upon the "No Snitching" code on the streets when victims of a triple shooting in a running gun battle refused to help police in a absurd situation that would have made Frank Gusenberg proud. In San Bernadino, up to 100 people may have witnessed the murder of a local football star, and will freely admit they saw the whole thing go down to his mother but refuse to help the police. In Rialto, California, a man was executed at his apartment in broad daylight in front of 6 of his co-workers and several family members, all of whom fell silent when the police investigated. The police and prosecutors blame a culture of intimidation, retaliation, and distrust of authorities by poor residents. Unfortunately, this leads to increased anger and distrust against authorities when the crimes and murders are not solved. It also leads to the killers becoming emboldened, and ending more lives as the murder rates in big cities surge to eye popping numbers, and homicide clearance rates reach single digit percentages.

Some community activists are trying to encourage residents to work with the police, but note that police tactics need to change. Columnist Ronald Moten argues that young men in the poorer neighborhoods often glorify non-cooperation and compare not talking to the police to an alleged "blue wall of silence" that police officers share, and how powerful politicians often seem to cover for each other during scandal and criminal investigations.

Some blame hip hop. Some blame the schools. Some blame the parents. Some blame the victims. Others argue all anybody needs to do is read a book. Despite the growing lack of non-cooperation with the police and rising violence in the inner cities, various community groups are springing up to combat this plague. Only time will tell if they are successful.

Tags: written by pO157, edited by 1fastdog, snitching, crime, law, police, ghetto, drive-by-shooting (all tags)

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6

I'll play devil's advocate here.

MayorBob.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 04:37:01 PM EST

5.00 (astute, brilliant)

The "no snitching" trend is one of the stupidest social movements I've heard of in awhile.  I'm not talking about drug snitches or paid informants.  I'm talking about this whole "yeah, you might know the thug who just mowed down the six-year-old kid with a gun, but you'd better not be telling the cops who he was" thing that seems to have grown wings in the inner city.  I live outside Philly and it is on its way to topping last year's body count.  I couldn't tell you how many of those shootings are reported in the news and you get a variety of reactions.  One is bewilderment over the loss of this young one or that young one.  Another is outrage over the carnage taking place in the black community usually leading to some sort of lame march by the parents of the latest victim and a minister from the local church.  Yet, the word that's spread is don't snitch on the thug who ended yet another life because the other thug he was really trying to shoot ducked out of the way and some innocent caught the slug.

Yeah, I know that generally the police aren't trusted by a lot of people living in the inner city and I know a lot of the reasons why.  But, if they don't want to tell the police, let them give the name to the minister or call the DA.  Somebody, anybody.  The one sure thing that letting a murdering thug go free is that the murdering thug is still among you and he's just formed the impression that he's bulletproof and there's no real reason to stop.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

1

Sad But Not A Surprise

thefadd.

Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 08:07:55 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

This is what happens when people lose faith in their government. It's the same thing we witnessed on the streets under Reagan and Bush I and it's a failure of leadership from the top. The only surprising part is how long it took Bush II to make inroads on Clinton's legacy -- just goes to show you exactly how much Ol' Bill did for those on the edges of society.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

2

Re: Silence > Death

port1080.

Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 08:27:58 PM EST

none

I'm as WASP as WASP can be (at least as far as appearance goes), and yet I still feel a tinge every time I see a police car or pass an officer on the street. There's something wrong with that - people shouldn't be afraid of the police, and yet we are. I have no good personal reason for this fear (I've been pulled over for speeding a few times, but justifiably in both cases), and the local police actually did quite a bit to help me once when a U-Haul I was driving broke down in the middle of traffic, but I still have that instinctive response. Part of it is television and pop culture, but part of it is just paying attention to news reports (like that guy in Texas that got tazered for trying to take his own child out of the hospital). Most cops are good, decent people - but a decent percentage are pure asshole, and that "wall of blue" does a lot to perpetuate their abuses. Additionally, it seems like police procedure tends towards viewing everyone as a potential suspect. Perhaps this is justified, but if you hear enough stories about kids with water pistols getting gunned down it will start to make anyone nervous.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

3

^ 2

Re: Silence > Death

thefadd.

Tue Sep 11, 2007 at 11:53:40 PM EST

none

Maybe it is simply that growing media has exposed us to more police abuses but it really feels like the police have a much higher wall up now than 20 years ago. I put the blame on the way the profession has become such an industry. Namely: asset forfeiture, industrialization of the prison system, and cops working for private security firms on a regular basis. But maybe the friendly neighborhood beat cop really was just an illusion of the 50's and things are no different today.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

4

^ 2

Re: Silence > Death

pO157.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 10:37:45 AM EST

none

You know, I didn't get that weird feeling when driving past a cop car until I'd been pulled over my 2nd or 3rd time. The first time I ever got pulled over was after returning a completely hammered friend home (I was the DD). I then apparently drove the wrong way down an (unmarked) disused road which I was not familiar with, and two cops were sitting there and pulled me over, asking if I'd been drinking. I explained the whole thing, and when it turned out the only one way sign had been knocked over they were actually cool with everything, and thanked me for being the DD. A good time was had by all.

Then, within a period of 5 months I got pulled over 2 times for completely BS reasons, both tickets ended up getting tossed out of court immediately (one by the DA at the preliminary hearing, the other through the mail by the judge). So that caused my opinions of the 5-0 to drop, but my impression of the judicial system to go up immensely. Of course, I know I happened to hit a short run of bad cops and I really shouldn't fear them because of the actions of a small subset. But as you pointed out, it is hard to shake that feeling once you get it.

I think recent efforts in some areas to require police to have been to college and have better interpersonal skills go a long way towards better relations with the community. In addition, I think a concentrated effort towards putting more "boots on the ground" would be best in the long run -- if you have more police walking the beat or driving around you would have a higher deterrence factor. I am not sure if this is just correlation but it seems in a lot of these high crime ghettos the response time is absurdly  high, the number of cops is low, and cases never get closed so criminals keep repeating their crimes over and over again.

Spread it on!

5

^ 4

Re: Silence > Death

port1080.

Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 10:55:55 AM EST

none

I think recent efforts in some areas to require police to have been to college and have better interpersonal skills go a long way towards better relations with the community. In addition, I think a concentrated effort towards putting more "boots on the ground" would be best in the long run

Of course, this is a Catch22 - if you increase the number of cops, the percentage that are less educated / qualified will also increase (unless you drastically raise police salaries, which are already pretty high for the level of education required). Can you imagine what it would cost to field a force consisting entirely of BA & MA police? Most people with a BA can make about the same as a cop but with much less danger - so you'd probably have to top the BA salary by at least 50% to get a large number of recruits. It just strikes me that that's unlikely to be a sustainable level of pay in most jurisdictions (and in those where it is feasible, there's probably not all that much need for extra police presence anyway).

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

7

^ 5

Re: Silence > Death

pO157.

Thu Sep 13, 2007 at 09:43:23 AM EST

none

Of course, this is a Catch22 - if you increase the number of cops, the percentage that are less educated / qualified will also increase (unless you drastically raise police salaries, which are already pretty high for the level of education required). Can you imagine what it would cost to field a force consisting entirely of BA & MA police? Most people with a BA can make about the same as a cop but with much less danger - so you'd probably have to top the BA salary by at least 50% to get a large number of recruits. It just strikes me that that's unlikely to be a sustainable level of pay in most jurisdictions (and in those where it is feasible, there's probably not all that much need for extra police presence anyway).

The rebirth of cities has to start somewhere. When you mention a decaying city the first thing an outsider would think of would be crime. If you could help ensure the safety of pioneers moving back to the urban centers I bet you would get a lot of  takers. Young professionals without kids who wouldn't mind living in a more "at-risk" area, if the most they had to deal with was clearing off empty bottles of Hennessey off their lawn once in a while. This in turn would bring in more tax dollars, and lessen the burden on services.

Paying police more to get the 'cream of the crop' has a double bonus if you make it part of the collective bargaining contract that they must live within city limits for their first 20 years on the job. That way a portion of the salary gets returned to the city as taxes every year and you have good citizens invested in their neighborhoods.

Once you get the safety under control, then you can market the plus side of the urban lifestyle* to potential residents. People move back in, property values increase in "good pockets", and the thugs and scum get forced out of the widening pockets of revitalized neighborhoods by the free market positive feedback loop. Eventually large swaths of the decaying urban environment are back to normal. Good guys win, bad guys lose.

If the city really does not have the budget for more police and higher pay, they could try an idea popular in rural areas (and some larger cities such as LA) that lack police budgets. Get the residents in an area who are healthy, interested and of proper age, train them to do basic police/security functions, arm and equip them and have them volunteer one or two days a month either to walk the beat in high crime areas or partner them up with experienced full time officers for patrol duties. The force multiplier and deterrence effect should convince the neighborhood punks to pull their crap somewhere else. Once crime comes down in the more chronic areas, people move in, tax revenue goes up, regular police get hired and Good Guys Win, Bad Guys Lose.

*Living in a city has its advantages: Cheap mass transit, close jobs, spending less on fuel, neighbors and like minded individuals nearby. Hell, you can get loaded at your corner bar and not have to worry about DUI! Kind of like college.

Spread it on!

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