Etcetera

It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood, won't you be my psycho neighbor?

pO157.

Posted to Etcetera on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 11:57:38 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

The idyllic American neighborhood image is one of cute homes with clean yards surrounded by a white picket fence. Neighborhoods in the city solicit visions of friendly neighbors in quiet spacious apartments who look out for each other. But what about when your neighbor is batshit insane? Well, you could vent about it on a random forum, or move out. But how does that help future neighbors who may want to move into your 'hood? One man has a solution.

Brant Walker created Rotten Neighbor.com after moving into a new residence in San Diego and trying to deal with a horrid owner caused by his neighbors. Realizing everybody has a story to tell about a bad neighbor he created the website as a way to get people to log their bad experiences and hopefully warn buyers considering moving in. The site also features off line mediation which allows complainants and the bad neighbor to resolve their disputes in person and remove erroneous information from the databank.

After 100,000 posts, the site has taken off. Bill Adler, author of a book on the topic says it is because the problem is universal -- everybody has experienced it at least once. According to Mr. Adler the biggest complaints are usually noise with the underlying cause being that the neighbors are either rude or may be simply unaware of the problems they cause.

Either way, neighbor disputes are one of the top reasons for trips to court for Americans suggesting if people can keep the peace with the Bumpuses next door they will be able to live happier lives.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by pO157, neighbors, funny, teh interwebs (all tags)

This story: 37 comments (0 from subqueue)
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10

If for some reason this business model fails

thefadd.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:24:28 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

...they can always repackage it as partylocator.com.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

29

anecdote

doom4rent.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:35:53 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

When I living at home years ago, the neighbourhood didn't change much. Pretty sleepy town of 18 000, mostly retirees and young families. Cheap real estate, and quiet neighbourhoods.

Nothing noticable actually happened, but for some reason, one of the older neighbours down the street kinda snapped. Maybe he was bored from retirement, but he started calling the cops, or the fire department for any and every by-law violation he could find. There was a bike trail a half block away and one of the kids had a dirt bike he's take out there, and he sat on it and pushed his way across the street with the engine off... this guy video-taped it and sent it to the cops. He called the fire department because my mom and I had a small fire in our own backyard that wasn't properly arranged (apparently, as the FD didn't know what to say to us when they showed up in our backyard, ready to fight a blaze and they saw a fire pit 3 feet wide)

He then constructed a fence through the length of his backyard, the only resident in the block to do so, thereby bisecting a large tract of grass the young kids used to play on (I used to run through there as a kid myself) which is perfectly legal, but if you got the only fence in town, you're bound to look like a dick, ya know? Then he extended his fence onto a city-owned laneway at the end of his plot, and my other neighbour called the cops on him. He had to tear it down... and next summer he rebuilt it (he was building it to dissaude this other neighbour from using said laneway to transport building materials into his yard for a treehouse and hockey rink, etc) and the cops were called again, and it was torn down again.

This actual friendly neighbour had access to a snow plow in the winter, and would plow the space in front of everyone's homes and driveways (and the giant walls of snow the street plows leave blocking you in) and this guy called the cops on him, as it was against some by-law of whichever for a citizen to plow city property. He called the cops despite getting his own driveway plowed... by that time the cops knew what was going on, and my father, being a former cop for the city, used the opportunities to talk to some old co-workers.

Nonetheless... there was a stretch of 3-4 summers where this guy did everything in his power to make everyone else miserable. Then, not coincidentally, he and his wife moved out into a retirement home and his kids moved in, who were perfectly reasonable and friendly.

8

The funny thing about this site

thefadd.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:49:22 PM EST

3.00 (funny)

...is that you can post anything about anything. In my neighborhood, people seem to have taken to reviewing businesses in the area like a local coffee shop or the LA Dodgers. It would be cool if you could moderate or endorse what other people have said. My favorite quote so far has been someone telling a guy who plays electronica all night and has a poster of a car on his wall (apparently) to "go back to the Westside."

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

1

Re: It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood, won

skeeter1.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:27:27 AM EST

none

I must say, I've had a few bad neighbors in my day.  Nothing to go to court over, mostly just their unsupervised kids.  Still, it was a pain in the ass.  

Now I've got a couple of vacant properties around me.  One next door who moved out and is asking way to much for the property values here, and one that lost his job and the bank foreclosed on him.  That one is very reasonably priced, and I'm sure it will go quickly.

Still, it's a bit unsettling to see empty properties in the neighborhood, particularly one as nice as the one I live in.  I'm sure the bad economy around Cleveland has a lot to do with it.  

Oh well, I keep a loaded firearm near my bed, and the police department on the speed dial on my cell phone.  Right about now I wish I had my friend's Doberman here, because I know my cats aren't going to be good for diddly-squat.

there's only one way to find out...

2

^ 1

Re: It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood, won

Shy Elf.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:07:10 AM EST

none

Rest assured.  If you neighbors break into your house, your cats will ignore the breakin at the time and later pee on their bed.

3

Regurgitation of the usual complaints

pO157.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 05:40:40 AM EST

none

When I moved in, my house had been vacant for several months. This meant the denizens two (2) doors down had trained their dog to defecate on my lawn on command, since nobody would be there to care. In addition, the loose dog took extreme umbrage at the fact myself and my beagle/terrier would go for our morning walk and would jump out from the bushes at us "Execute Code Red" style. After a few weeks that got old, so I went to have a talk with them. The parents refused to come to the door, sending their ~7 year old to the door saying no adults were home. At 6:30am. Classy.

The man of said house makes a living as a snow plow, limo driver guy. During one  historical blizzard we woke up to find a giant truck in our driveway. I assumed it was my [cool] neighbors (we share a driveway). He came out at 10am (the snow was that bad) asking when we bought a truck and why wasn't it in our garage. I explained that it wasn't ours, and we had assumed it was his. Turns out, same asshole neighbor from two (2) doors down had gotten back late during the storm and couldn't find his driveway. So he decided it would be okay if he just parked us in until he showed up to claim his truck at 1pm the next day. My [cool] neighbor wanted to call the cops, but we did not because the city was literally paralyzed. The idiot neighbor then decided he was going to make it up to us by plowing our driveway for free. Which was cool, except for the fact he also plowed away part of my cool neighbors steps. That was uncool.

So yeah, we really don't talk to those people much.

I will refrain from expounding on the robbery suspects outside who pulled a sawed off shotgun on the cops across the street from me, the neighborhood arsonist who only strikes on weekends, the crack heads who hang out on the street behind my place or the guy who I called 911 on who was beating some chick up in my lawn at 4am because there is no way I can be sure they are my neighbors and I don't want to give my area a bad reputation.

Spread it on!

5

^ 3

Re: Lemme sleep, neighbor!

zyxwvutsr.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:50:50 AM EST

none

...so I went to have a talk with them...At 6:30am...
If you showed up at my door at 6:30 in the morning, I'd put you on the map.

6

^ 5

Re: Lemme sleep, neighbor!

pO157.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 08:18:47 AM EST

none

If you loosed your dogs on my lawn at 5:45-6am every morning then stood in your driveway in your bathrobe watching them take a dump on my lawn and/or jump out at my dog and I, I'd put you on the map.

Spread it on!

16

^ 6

Re: Lemme sleep, neighbor!

keta.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:34:02 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Wander over to his lawn and, while he's standing there watching his dog foul your front yard, drop your trousers and deposit a coiler.

When he asks you what the fuck you think you're doing, reply, "shit for shat."

7

^ 6

Re: Lemme sleep, neighbor!

thefadd.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 01:38:19 PM EST

none

Just borrow a bigger dog for a few weeks.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

9

^ 7

Re: Lemme sleep, neighbor!

pO157.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:07:09 PM EST

none

That could work.

The Mrs. and I were considering getting a can of mace for the above problem because unfortunately we (or our beagle) have been attacked by random loose fighting dogs in our neighborhood. Unfortunately our state prohibits purchasing self defense spray except from a gun store or licensed pharmacist. We ended up just dumping cayenne pepper powder on our front lawn to keep the pooping dogs off (they sniff before they crap, so it kind of works) and adopting a monte python strategy of "RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!" when some crackheads fighting pitbull gets loose and charges us.

Good times. Good times.

Spread it on!

13

^ 3

Re: Regurgitation of the usual complaints

skeeter1.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:59:47 PM EST

none

Yeah, one of the neighborhood kids across the street (a druggie who had previously been hauled off in handcuffs) ran out during a thunderstorm and dumped his drug paraphernalia down into the storm sewer.  My guess is that he got a tip-off that the cops were one the way over.  

It doesn't matter what 'hood you live in.  Sooner or later, shit happens.  I might be in the minority here, but personally I like sleeping knowing that I've got a loaded .38Spl close by.  For the most part, I tend to be a Democrat, but I'm a firm defender of my Second Amendment right to own firearms to protect myself, my family, and my neighbors.  

there's only one way to find out...

14

^ 13

Re: Regurgitation of the usual complaints

pO157.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:15:43 PM EST

none

It doesn't matter what 'hood you live in.  Sooner or later, shit happens.  I might be in the minority here, but personally I like sleeping knowing that I've got a loaded .38Spl close by.  For the most part, I tend to be a Democrat, but I'm a firm defender of my Second Amendment right to own firearms to protect myself, my family, and my neighbors.

Regrettably, violent home invasions are on the way up here. Unfortunately, it is damn near impossible to get a firearms permit in this county from what I am told (what do you expect when you live in a state where you have to get mace from a pharmacist or firearms dealer and fill out a background form?). Not that it matters to me, I don't own a gun, but I support the rights of others to do so. Maybe a few instances of those gangs of young thugs getting shot by homeowners would cut down on these knuckleheads.

And people wonder why nobody wants to live in the city.

Spread it on!

32

^ 13

Re: Regurgitation of the usual complaints

DEMachina.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 08:22:34 PM EST

none

For the most part, I tend to be a Democrat, but I'm a firm defender of my Second Amendment right to own firearms to protect myself, my family, and my neighbors.

Damn right.  Funny how if you're liberal people assume you're anti-gun.  My city is down to the 15th most dangerous in the country; I definitely sleep better with my .45 at hand.

Q: What do you think of western civilization? Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

34

^ 32

Re: Regurgitation of the usual complaints

skeeter1.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:03:06 PM EST

none

Well, I'm just one suburb away from Cleveland, Ohio, and I see that it's the 7th most dangerous place on the list.  Small wonder that I refuse to go into the city any more.  No thanks.  

Years ago, I would go Christmas shopping with my mom on a streetcar (dating myself here) to downtown Cleveland, and it was wonderful.  Stores with big window displays, huge Christmas trees...  

Well, all of the department stores have closed up, the street cars are long gone, and last year there were over 100 homicides in Cleveland, some of them at random.  I don't need that kind of shit.  

Complain at will about the suburbs, but I spent a couple of years living in downtown Cleveland when I was in college, and I won't be moving back in this lifetime.

there's only one way to find out...

35

^ 34

Re: Regurgitation of the usual complaints

DEMachina.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 05:09:04 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

I looked at going to law school in Cleveland (Case Reserve), but maybe it's for the best that I didn't.  I briefly dated a girl who lived in Columbus (OSU and all), and both times I was out there I got an extremely creepy vibe from the place.  A friend of mine grew up in northwestern Ohio (out in the boonies) and hated it.  All-in-all it doesn't sound like a part of the country I'd enjoy being.

I have mixed feelings about living in a city vs. a suburb.  I grew up in an extremely conservative, retirement-mecca-type place, and hated it; I still get annoyed at how insular it is every time I go back there.  Most of the suburbs I've been to have no personality to them; everything feels so corporate and planned.  They're also too new.  Too many cities don't preserve any of their history.  The last apartment building I lived in was built around 1900 at the latest, and that's pretty standard for that part of town.  Anywhere I want to settle will have to be as colorful as my current digs, and I've yet to find anywhere to match it, crime and all.

Q: What do you think of western civilization? Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

36

^ 35

Re: Regurgitation of the usual complaints

port1080.

Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:14:23 AM EST

none

Too many cities don't preserve any of their history.

Like the incredible awkwardly placed Arthur Ashe statue?

Yeah, I went there.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

37

^ 36

Oblique comment on race or security measure?

thefadd.

Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 06:38:09 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

Dude, seriously, why is it up on that white pedestal?

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

15

^ 3

Re: Regurgitation of the usual complaints

keta.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 04:29:17 PM EST

none

...I don't want to give my area a bad reputation.

Too late!

4

That's Hot

pO157.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 05:52:34 AM EST

none

Oh, and in other news, the entire institution of higher learning where I went to college is listed on that website as a "Bad Neighbor."

That's what I'm talking about. A new reason not to donate to those people when they try to harass me for money this year, but I'll keep sending it to a better place. The place where I got my MS from has currently got me spending all my money up on them, and spending time on them. So real.

Spread it on!

11

Lawsuit waiting to happen?

port1080.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 02:42:50 PM EST

none

I do wonder about the legal implications of a site like this - in two ways.  First off, if this gets enough traction it could easily lower the property values of a certain neighborhood.  This might be nice for the buyer, but it sucks if you're in that area and trying to sell your house.  While the site and commentators would be legally protected if what's posted is factually true, a lot of times truth is in the eye of the beholder, and sometimes the problems come more out of personality conflicts than out of an inherent problem with the neighbor in question (i.e. the problem develops because Neighbor 1 plus Neighbor 2 can't stand each other, but if Neighbor 2 moves away and Neighbor 3 buys his house and moves in, things could be perfectly fine).  There's also the problem of accuracy and keeping things updated - what happens when the problem neighbor moves away/dies/violates his probation and goes back to prison?  Is that block going to be stained forever with the reputation of having a problem neighbor, or will the site take down of out of date information?*

*This is really a problem internet-wide.  Google Maps, for example, often provides contact information and phone numbers for businesses that are out of business or have moved to new addresses.  

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

12

^ 11

Re: Lawsuit waiting to happen?

thefadd.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 03:25:24 PM EST

none

It's almost 100% guaranteed that some lawsuit somewhere will come of this. It's target audience is people who like to complain in the first place. Talk about eye of the beholder, there's one complaint two neighborhoods over from mine about people who "think they own the neighborhood." These are sort of your atypical bad neighbor--perhaps a good neighbor gone bad. They don't play music at 3AM or park in your parking space--they're someone who cares about their neighborhood, just a little too much. Instead they call to have cars towed when they've been parked on the block for 4 days straight, they leave notes on your car if you park slightly outside the line, they pick up someone else's dog poop and put it on your steps because you're the only person near them who they know with a dog. These are exactly the type of people who I can see using this service, then being absolutely shocked to find that people think they are the bad neighbor.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

19

^ 11

Do we overinflate the importance of the internet?

TonedEff.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:08:10 PM EST

none

Are you saying that a couple of negative posts about some people in a neighborhood is going to result in property values spinning down the drain?  I doubt that very much as it doesn't look like the site is all that over trafficked and how many prospective buyers are going to consult a web site whose sole reason for being seems to be to post unfounded information about people?

20

^ 19

Re: Do we overinflate the importance of the intern

port1080.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:18:44 PM EST

none

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. I know my wife and I looked up everything we could about our neighborhood online before we purchased our house (searched the local newspaper archives for crime reports, looked at the sex offender registry, etc, etc.). Maybe we were more thorough than most people, but I can't help but think that if this thing takes off a lot of people are going to be looking at it. It might not tank the price of your house to have a "bad neighbor", but in a bear market like we're seeing right now every little bit can hurt...

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

21

^ 20

Re: Do we overinflate the importance of the intern

thefadd.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:25:39 PM EST

none

I checked my neighborhood one time and there were basically 87,000 sex offenders in my zip code which didn't really surprise me given the high concentration of apartments to my west. I don't have kids at this point and perhaps your neighborhood is less populace but what info did you look at when you looked at the registry? With every asshole who mooned someone or peed in a back alley in there, I don't find it all that helpful for high density population centers unless you want to pour over each record individually.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

23

^ 21

Re: Do we overinflate the importance of the intern

port1080.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:30:29 PM EST

none

I don't have kids at this point and perhaps your neighborhood is less populace but what info did you look at when you looked at the registry?


There was a site we found that used the google maps API to show you exactly where each sex offender in the area lived.  I'm in suburban Delaware, and the neighborhood we bought in was all single family houses, so you could easily see if there were any sex offenders in your neighborhood.  Since there weren't any in our entire development (the closest one was in an apartment complex that's a few miles down the road from our area) we felt pretty good.  Suburban DE is basically a series of development communities - there aren't really any towns at all, and the only city environment is Wilmington proper.  Each little development has its own character; some are much nicer than others, so you really want to do your research before you buy.  

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

30

^ 21

Re: Do we overinflate the importance of the intern

skeeter1.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 05:21:52 PM EST

none

"I checked my neighborhood one time and there were basically 87,000 sex offenders in my zip code"

I hope you're kidding.  I just checked my zipcode, and there were 34, none of them on my block.  One was across the street from my buddy, but he's back behind bars.  Besides, my friend has a Doberman-Pinscher that I get along with just fine, but I wouldn't want to fuck with that 95lb dog.  

He got the dog some years ago when his daughter (beautiful young ladies) were training for marathons.  Nobody ever messed with the girls, but if they had, I can assure you, that dog would have killed them.

Yes I own a few firearms (OK, 10), but that big dog is both the best burglar alarm and first line of defense there is.  

there's only one way to find out...

31

^ 30

Re: Do we overinflate the importance of the intern

Degee.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 06:07:12 PM EST

none

"Yes I own a few firearms (OK, 10)"

Geeky Bob?

Am I a great person? Hell no - by most metrics I'm pretty much an asshole. -TSlothrop

22

^ 20

Re: Do we overinflate the importance of the intern

pO157.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:28:17 PM EST

none

That's what I hate about being a homeowner. I may think the sex offender registry is a bunch of bullshit, but now I have to fight like crazy when they want to put a Sex Offender Warehouse(tm)* on the corner just so my property values stay level because not everybody is as enlightened as me.

*In the end, I didn't fight it. Because I didn't want to be associated with the insane people and their spurious arguments fighting the S.O.W. It got canned anyway.

Spread it on!

24

^ 22

Re: Do we overinflate the importance of the intern

port1080.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:37:26 PM EST

none

Yeah, ditto - we didn't really care one way or another, but we had the resale value of our house in mind (we plan on selling in four or five years, unless the market tanks so bad we can't get our money back, anyway) and so we wanted to be in a neighborhood where houses would at least hold their value - so staying away from big concentrations of sex offenders was a must.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

25

^ 22

Re: Do we overinflate the importance of the intern

thefadd.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:38:18 PM EST

none

In the end, I didn't fight it. Because I didn't want to be associated with the insane people and their spurious arguments fighting the S.O.W. It got canned anyway.

Isn't that always the way.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

26

^ 25

Re: Do we overinflate the importance of the intern

pO157.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 07:42:09 PM EST

none

Isn't that always the way.

Me not wanting to be associated with idiots writing heated letters to the editor saying "But... but... people with CRIMINAL RECORDS will live within 50 feet of an overpass and a porno shop!?"

Yes.

Spread it on!

17

Remember Megan Meier?

MayorBob.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 05:09:44 PM EST

none

The kid who was either driven to suicide, or not,  by the infamous myspace mother a couple of months ago?  Well, Lori Drew's name, location and deeds are immortalized on rottenneighbor.com.

I guess I have a problem with a site like rottenneighbor not so much to report stuff like the Drew incident (because it's public knowledge).  And using rottenneighbors as an adjunct posting for the location of sex offenders wouldn't bother me from much the same standpoint.  However, I have questions and concerns over sites like these:

  1. Who polices the postings?  What's to keep someone from simply slandering your name and reputation?  There's no requirement for an actual identity and location in order to post the most inflammatory and embarassing info on the site.

  2. Who updates the information?  Supposing you have a child sexual molester who moved into the community last year and you post that to the site.  Supposing the molester moves out and somebody else moves into his house.  How does the information on the site get changed?

 

Illegitimi non carborundum.

18

^ 17

Re: Remember Megan Meier?

thefadd.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 05:47:58 PM EST

none

In this case, I think anarchy is the best solution. So long as you make no promises of veracity, accuracy or otherwise decent information then there's no real expectation of any. Once you start trying to confirm things like whether or not someone lets their dog poop on someone else's lawn, you've only set yourself up to fail.

There was that recent case of a guy murdering his neighbor because he was a sex offender. Apparently, the guy read the database listing incorrectly and thought he was a child molester. He supposedly drove himself crazy over it for weeks about "what could be done" to keep the guy away from the neighborhood kids until he finally went and killed the guy. Turns out the guy "only" raped a fully grown, mature woman 20 years ago and wasn't anything remotely like a pedophile.

Information like this needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's a bit of information that you store away in case it complements some other piece of information you have and it reminds you double check yourself, do your own homework and be safe. But no one should ever confuse it with fact.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

27

Re: It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood, won

skeeter1.

Tue Jan 15, 2008 at 10:36:34 PM EST

none

Unfortunately our state prohibits purchasing self defense spray except from a gun store or licensed pharmacist.

Jeez, I've never heard of such a restriction.  You can probably get it wherever you live thanks to this internet thingy:

http://search.cheaperthandirt.com/search?q=pepper+spray&site=firsttest&txthide=1&output= xml_n_dtd&client=firsttest&btnG=Search&access=p&ip=12.75.69.77&proxystylesheet=f irsttest&getfields=price&getfields=image&oe=UTF-8&filter=p

I'm a bit more concerned abut critters of the two-legged variety, and I think the .38Spl is plenty to discourage them.

there's only one way to find out...

28

^ 27

Re: It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood, won

pO157.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 12:07:31 PM EST

none

Welcome to NY. Unfortunately, most places will refuse to ship to The Empire State, mostly because its illegal to do so. NY residents are not allowed to bring it into the state or buy it out of NY. Also you also have to fill out a police background check form about yourself when you buy said spray.

Good times. I am glad these restrictions stop all those muggers and criminals from getting their hands on it. Or not.

Spread it on!

33

^ 28

Re: It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood, won

DEMachina.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 08:28:07 PM EST

none

Wow, that's insane.  In Virginia you can get that stuff pretty much anywhere.

From the looks of it, that's not much less restrictive than what you have to do to buy a gun.  What are they thinking?

Q: What do you think of western civilization? Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

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