Etcetera

Digital photography: love it or hate it?

skeeter1.

Posted to Etcetera on Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:07:58 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

I've been shooting photos since Hector was a pup.  First up was my dad's old Kodak.  I still have it, but they don't make film for it any longer.

Then it was on to a Minolta SRT-101, 35mm.  Made a few bucks using that camera.

Along the way, I picked up a couple of Rollei B35s.  Great cameras for backpacking -- they weigh next to nothing.

Somewhere along the line, I also grabbed a Canon Photura.  I don't know what I was thinking.

At any rate, they're all resting in a closet, and I've been digital for several years now.  The first one was a Nikon, and I paid dearly for that some years ago.  Only 2 Mpixels, but it still works.

My latest one is a Canon A550, and was only 1/4th the price, 7Mpixels, and works much better.

Besides those, I have a HP Photosmart printer and a Canon Selphy printer to round out my "digital darkroom".  I remember all too well going into a darkened closet to unload film and wind the spool to develop the 35mm film.  I was doing E4 and E6 film back then, and God knows what chemicals I was dumping into the sewer.

Digital is just so much easier.  When you're done, you just reformat the memory card and start all over.  

Yes, I'm a digital photography convert.  I might get one of the 35mm's out of the closet again, but I doubt it.  If anything, it's going to be one of the Rolleis, since they don't need batteries.  

I'm sure there are more than a few of you who have gone through the same thinking.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by skeeter1, photography, digital, film (all tags)

This story: 24 comments (5 from subqueue)
Post a Comment
1

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

port1080.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:20:54 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

I have mixed feelings about digital.  I love the convenience factor, but the very volume of pictures I take ends up working against me.  When I end up with three or four hundred pictures, I don't want to take the time to organize them on my computer (or spend the money to print them), so I just dump them, unlabeled and unnamed, into some random folder on my computer and forget about them.  I have tons of holiday photos that no one else in my family has seen because they're just sitting on my computer, waiting for me to do something with them.  Now, this is mainly a factor of my own laziness, but nonetheless, with film cameras the very fact that I was forced to be more picky meant that there was less to deal with when it came to processing and sorting.  


It's funny how technology works like that sometimes - you take a process and make it easier, but in making it easier you make it possible to do more work.  Then, instead of just doing the same amount of work you did before, you feel compelled to do twice as much.  There are some interesting history of technology articles about how the same thing happened in the 1930s-1950s period to women, when household appliances revolutionized domestic work.  Something like cleaning, which you used to do twice a year, now had to be done at least once a week once you got a vacuum cleaner....

3

^ 1

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

joshv.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:29:39 AM EST

3.00 (informative)

I had the exact same problem until I bit the bullet and tried out Lightroom.  Now I can download my pics from the card, import them in lightroom (tagging them with appropriate meta data in the process), scan through the imported photos, quickly tag the good ones as "Picks", then go though and post process the picks in just a few minutes.  Export to a web gallery is just a few clicks away.  See for example:  http://www.everythink.org/pictures/Christmas%202007/index.html

I hate to sound like such a "Ra-Ra" Adobe booster, but Lightroom really is that good.

4

^ 3

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

port1080.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:46:59 AM EST

3.00 (informative)

Well, I just made the full on transition to Linux a few months ago, so unless Lightroom works with WINE (which it doesn't, just checked), Lightroom is probably out of the picture.  I guess I need to give F-spot a whirl.  There's a version of Picasa for Linux too, although I wasn't all that thrilled with the windows version, and I think the Linux version is basically the same.  There's also a Lightroom clone called Light Zone that I guess might be worth checking out.

10

^ 4

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

zyxwvutsr.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 08:29:57 PM EST

none

Well, I just made the full on transition to Linux a few months ago...I guess I need to give F-spot a whirl
F-spot, to put it mildly, sucks ass. It is, unfortunately, like too many other Linux programs: just not up to modern standards.

Yesterday I downloaded Bibble for Linux. I haven't installed it yet as it has a 14-day trial period and I want to give it a real test when I have time to do so. As far as I know, Bibble is the only pro-grade photography workflow program available for Linux.

If I have time to check it out (and assuming I'm able to get it installed - Linux, you know) I'll try to post a comment about it here.

5

^ 3

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

ckm.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 12:44:46 PM EST

none

http://www.everythink.org/pictures/Christmas%202007/index.html = "Sorry, this photo gallery requires that scripting be enabled on your web browser and that the Adobe Flash Player be installed. Download the Adobe Flash Player"

Sorry, no.  You can do the same thing for free with Picasa and it doesn't use some proprietary format....

And, if you are on Linux, http://picasa.google.com/linux/

Chris.

6

^ 5

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

joshv.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 01:00:59 PM EST

none

Well, that's the format I prefer - those who disable scripting and flash because they think it makes them safer on the web will just have to suffer.  

Lightroom will also generate HTML only galleries.  Here's an older one I created: http://www.everythink.org/pictures/Door%20County%202007/content/index.html

9

^ 1

Re: Digital photography workflow

zyxwvutsr.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 08:19:59 PM EST

none

I love the convenience factor, but the very volume of pictures I take ends up working against me.  When I end up with three or four hundred pictures, I don't want to take the time to organize them on my computer (or spend the money to print them), so I just dump them, unlabeled and unnamed, into some random folder on my computer and forget about them
Any serious photographer, pro or amateur, who's gone digital (meaning almost all of them) has encountered the same problem. The first trick is coming up with a structured workflow: download, file, tag, rate/cull, edit, publish. The second trick is to use that workflow consistently and (in my experience) as soon as possible after shooting the photos*.

Joshv mentioned Lightroom, and that's an excellent workflow tool (probably the best, actually, though I've heard Aperture gives it a run for its money), but there are other ways to accomplish the job. Lightroom and other professional-level software packages combine and automate the download/file/tag operations, let you quickly rate and cull images, and had basic editing and publishing that cover probably 90% or more of most photographer's needs.

The most difficult part for me (and I suspect most amateur photographers) is to cull my work, but it's absolutely essential to managing a digital workflow. The software I usually use lets me give a 1-, 2-, 3-, or trash- grade to images in a quick slideshow format, and I generally grade/cull in two passes. On the first pass I give a 1 to the obviously awesome shots, a 3 to the ones I wish I could do over, trash to the clearly out-of-focus/bad-exposure/just-wrong shots, and a 2 to everything else. Then I go through the 3s to make sure there's nothing unique there ,* *  and revisit the 2s to see if any deserve promotion to 1 status. After I'm fairly confident that I've got the 1s and 2s right, I demote the 3s to trash and empty the trash.

What I'm left with at that point are 1s, which are either excellent quality or unique enough to deserve sharing, and 2s that are okay shots, but not the best I feel I am capable of. I then go on to edit the 1s according to their ultimate use (email, web gallery, print) by straightening, color correcting, sharpening, and photoshopping as needed. The "publishing" step deserves its own comment(s), and maybe I'll get into it later.



* The third trick is to have a good storage/backup plan.

** I've heard that Aperture's "stacks" function is good for this, but I haven't used it. If anyone here has used Aperture I'd love to hear about it.

15

^ 9

Re: Digital photography workflow

Coelacanth.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:41:17 AM EST

none

I have a nice workflow going (Mac-based) with iView Media Pro and Photoshop CS2, quite similar to what you describe.  I shoot RAW, and it takes me about a minute per shot to convert, process, tag, etc. unless I'm doing something special to a photo (or trying to print it).  

However, Microsoft bought iView, renamed the product "Expression Media", and promptly released an "upgrade" full of bugs.  So I've been using my old version until I decide what to do...  Lightroom is one option.  Aperture is another, I suppose, though it was overpriced and underequipped in the first release.  I'll have to look at it again.  It sounds like there are several Lightroom fans here.

But to the question of too many photos... I think there's a similar discipline to taking digital as to shooting film, it just takes place later in the process.  If I shoot 5 shots instead of one to make sure I get the right exposure, etc., then I try to throw at least 3 of them away at the RAW stage.  I'm certainly not as good at tagging and rating photos as I'd like to be, though, so I'm sure to name the input folder according to at least date and usually event.  I still think it's better than folder of prints in boxes, which is what I have from my film days.  

16

^ 15

Re: Digital photography workflow

joshv.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:32:11 AM EST

none

"I think there's a similar discipline to taking digital as to shooting film, it just takes place later in the process.  If I shoot 5 shots instead of one to make sure I get the right exposure, etc., then I try to throw at least 3 of them away at the RAW stage."

Yeah, as the photos have piled up, my criteria for a "Pick" has become much more stringent.  I probably post-process only 10-25% of the pictures I take.

21

^ 15

Re: Digital photography workflow

zyxwvutsr.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 07:58:40 PM EST

none

I have a nice workflow going (Mac-based)...
How about iPhoto? I haven't used it other than to play around a bit at an Apple store, but it seems ideal for photo management and light-duty editing. Am I missing something about its capabilities (or lack thereof)?

23

^ 21

Re: Digital photography workflow

Coelacanth.

Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 04:10:26 PM EST

none

iPhoto didn't support RAW until recently, so I couldn't use it.  It also was very slow with large libraries, and copies all images into it's own directory structure, which is annoying if you want to upload selected images (though there are uploaders for many photo sites, now).  iView Media Pro indexes everything in place, and lets you use any editing package to work on the images.

I think iPhoto has matured to be a decent product, but it still (I think) copies everything into it's own index, and doesn't compare in ease of use to the major digital asset management products.  But it's a reasonable equivalent to Picasa, if you want something free.

24

^ 23

Re: Digital photography workflow

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jan 18, 2008 at 05:05:47 PM EST

none

I was under the impression that the latest version of iPhoto was pretty robust. The first serious photo management software I used was Adobe Photoshop Album which was, at the time, pretty much the equivalent of iPhoto. Both used databases that were inadequate for the task and started to choke at around 4,000-5,000 images. My understanding was that the new iPhoto was able to handle far more images without a problem.

Also, even from my quick, casual perusal of iPhoto in a store, I can tell you that its editing capabilities are in a different league than Picasa's. Picasa's editing functions are very basic (so, by the way, are the editing capabilities of Windows Photo Gallery, which comes with Vista) while iPhoto's are fairly decent for everyday use. (Though certainly not in the same league as professional tools.)

One thing I really liked about iPhoto was its full-screen editing mode which is something no other software has, except for Aperture.

20

^ 9

Re: Digital photography workflow

skeeter1.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:11:45 PM EST

none

 * The third trick is to have a good storage/backup plan.

BINGO!  You hit the nail on the head.  I've got two memory cards for each digicam (one uses SD cards, the other CompactFlash cards), and an external USB hard drive (Western Digital) for my computer.  Press one button, and everything is backed up.  Some of the smartest money I've ever spent.  I used to back up on tape, but that was painfully slow, and external hard-drives are so cheap any more that there's no reason not to have one.  My first hard drive was 30MB, and set me back $700 (somewhere in the 1980's).  Now, you can pick up a 120GB backup drive for <$80.

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-WDXMS1200TN-Passport-Portable/dp/B000HZGQ9C/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie =UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1200614623&sr=1-1

Photography or otherwise, I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't have a backup hard drive any more.  We were using mirrored hard drives on the VMS system I used to run, and they were big bucks some years ago.  The USB backup drive is the next best thing.

there's only one way to find out...

22

^ 20

Re: Digital photography workflow

zyxwvutsr.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 08:17:43 PM EST

none

I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't have a backup hard drive any more
Mostly because it's still to hard to do. I know you said you "press one button," but that act requires you to think about pressing the button and also to know when you need to do it. Most computer users need it to be simpler than that. The latest Mac OS and Windows Vista both have automated backup utilities, so I suppose doing proper backups will become far more common in the future. (Characteristically, Apple's backup system is far easier to use, though Vista's gets the job done. Also, Microsoft's crappy pricing scheme for Vista will leave a lot of users - those with Vista Basic - without this capability.)

2

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

joshv.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 10:25:10 AM EST

none

I am head over heels in love with my Canon 20D.  It's a great little camera.  It's getting a little long in the tooth, featureset wise, but until something dramatically better (or cheaper) comes along, I see no reason to replace it.

If you are a serious digital photography buff, and you haven't taken the plunge yet, you've got to check out Adobe's Lightroom.  It's designed to operate on RAW photos (though it works with jpgs just fine).  For post processing, for each picture it does in a few seconds what used to take me up to several minutes in other tools.  It's drastically improved my work flow, and made my 20,000 pic library easily navigable.  I heart Lightroom.

7

I still prefer 35mm

thefadd.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 02:31:44 PM EST

none

...but until christmas my best camera was a canon eos rebel. now that I've got the digital rebel, we'll see. I'm still more of a nikon guy since that was my first 35mm camera but their better cameras are out of the range I want/need to put into a camera.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

8

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

skeeter1.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 07:07:35 PM EST

none

Off topic, but port1080 started it,

"Something like cleaning, which you used to do twice a year, now had to be done at least once a week once you got a vacuum cleaner...

Yes, I have a few vacuum cleaners (5, IIRC), but still only clean about twice a year.  If it was good enough for my grandma, it's good enough for my bachelor self.

Back on topic.  I've got several thousand 35mm slides from when I went through that phase.  There's nothing that beats Kodachrome 25 for a great picture.  OTOH, they're a pain in the rear to look at.  Haul out the old Kodak carousel projector (presuming the bulb hasn't burned out), the screen, etc.  Digital on the computer is certainly nowhere as good, but it's a heck of a lot easier.  It's also a lot easier on the environment (just my guess).  

My two cents.

there's only one way to find out...

11

^ 8

Re: Digital photography: cheap or not?

zyxwvutsr.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:03:26 PM EST

none

There's nothing that beats Kodachrome 25 for a great picture
That's not exactly true anymore, though it certainly was true for most of the history of digital photography. And it's still true if you're on a tight budget.

Consider this (admittedly not rigorous) comparison between the 5-year-old, 11 megapixel Canon 1Ds and Provia 100 film. The digital camera is clearly superior. Then consider that recent digital SLRs (DSLRs) out-resolve the 1Ds and outperform it in other important ways such as color depth.

Still, DSLRs aren't cheap - not even the cheap ones. It's possible to get an inexpensive, but excellent 35mm camera that will take slide film and yield better results than similarly-priced digital cameras. Also, though slide projectors aren't cheap, neither are computers. So. I dunno.

12

^ 11

Re: Digital photography: cheap or not?

skeeter1.

Wed Jan 16, 2008 at 09:42:53 PM EST

none

"The digital camera is clearly superior. Then consider that recent digital SLRs (DSLRs) out-resolve the 1Ds and outperform it in other important ways such as color depth."

There's quite a bit of truth to that.  A friend of mine has been using a Canon 40D for a couple of years now, and publishing 2-page magazine spreads.  He also has some old view cameras up to 8x10, and challenged me to figure out which magazine spread was which.  I couldn't.  Once you hit the 10Mpixel mark, digital is every bit as good as film.

there's only one way to find out...

13

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

snwodttam.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 01:15:05 AM EST

none

I guess I'm kinda the odd-man-out here on this thread for a couple of reasons.

One, I don't really take pictures.  I don't really know anything about how to do it other than point and click, and so most of the pictures I take turn out crap.  I also tend to forget to bring the camara to events where one should take pictures.

Two, I don't really like digital cameras.  Granted, the one I have (an old Canon Xlim...or something like that...one of those thin types that fit in your pocket) isn't that great, but the photos I do take with it just seem really wrong in color.  The pics I take with my older regular film type camera (have no idea what kind it is) don't seem to have this color problem.  I bought this digital camera 3 years ago and have taken maybe 100 pictures with it.  The older film camera I got when I was in college about 9 years ago, and maybe took about the same number of pictures.

I'm not really sure what my problem is.  I like looking at pictures, and I often find myself wishing I had brought my camera.  But I just never remember to do it.

14

^ 13

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

skeeter1.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 04:31:31 AM EST

none

I often find myself wishing I had brought my camera.  But I just never remember to do it.

Jeez, I know the feeling.  How many times I've been out and didn't have a camera with me, I couldn't tell ya, and I have no excuse for that.  I've got 2 digicams and about 5 35mms, 2 of which don't even need batteries.  

Somehow, I never leave the house without my cellphone, but I never have a camera when I need it.  Go figure.

there's only one way to find out...

17

^ 13

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

joshv.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 06:43:15 AM EST

none

There could be something wrong with the camera, or its settings.  It sounds like there is a white balance issue. If you are taking pictures without a flash in low light, poor white balance is a common problem with point and shoot digitals.  There are very few P&S digicams that handle low light well.

As for taking good pictures, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules - save one.  You simply have to take a lot of pictures.  And this is the beauty of digital.  Each shot is basically free.  I've got over 20,000 pictures in my library.  Easily 80% of those are crap.  There might be a couple hundred that I consider really good.  But each bad picture taught me something about the camera, or lighting, or composition, etc...

18

^ 17

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

thefadd.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 02:59:47 PM EST

none

I actually enjoy taking "bad" pictures where the settings or lighting or something else is purposely wrong or random. It teaches me something about all the things that go into a shot and how they interplay to make a shot I do want. Also, it challenges my aesthetic and what I see as beauty which can be a facet of that interplay. And finally, there's that one time out of a thousand that something brilliant pops out that I could never have achieved if I'd been trying.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

19

^ 18

Re: Digital photography: love it or hate it?

joshv.

Thu Jan 17, 2008 at 05:21:03 PM EST

none

Yeah, I at least learn something from the 90% of the pictures that I take that are crappy.  I'm not a huge fan of "accidental art" though, to me a blurry picture is just that, a blurry picture.

This story: 24 comments (5 from subqueue)
Post a Comment