Etcetera

Organic food or processed food?

skeeter1.

Posted to Etcetera on Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 12:08:01 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

I can't make up my mind - super healthy or super cheap?  I love Mung bean sprouts, and have some growing in the kitchen almost every day (I've got three sprouters). On the other hand, I still like some processed food, like Green Giant veggies in cheese sauce.

They're probably bad for us, but they're really tasty.  

When I was a kid, my favorite treat was to go to McDonalds, because I loved the french fries.  I think they were fried in beef tallow back then (think the 1960's), but yummy.  I haven't been to a McDonalds in years, but the memories linger.

Still, there's healthy food, and then there's some comfort foods that I just can't get away from.  

Does anyone else have the same dietary dichotomy?

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by skeeter1, organic food, processed food, Whole Foods, Wal-Mart, shopping, eating, cooking (all tags)

This story: 32 comments (3 from subqueue)
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6

Re: Organic food or processed food?

ckm.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 06:29:36 PM EST

4.50 (astute, astute)

Then there is 'organic' food that's really, really bad for you.  I have a fondness for french cheese and 'charcutrie' (e.g. traditionally made cold cuts) which are largely organic in nature, but terrible for your diet.

There's tons of stuff like this around.  A place near me sells Niman Ranch organic beef hamburgers with organic cheese and unbleached wheat buns, with a side of organically grown french fries fried in organic canola...  I think it's just as bad as McDonalds, probably worse.

As an aside, I heard on NPR that out of a Big Mac, Egg McMuffin and a milkshake, the shake had the most fat and calories....

I actually think sodas are the worst.  Lots of sugar, not much nutritional value.

Chris.

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

skeeter1.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 07:35:53 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

"I heard on NPR that out of a Big Mac, Egg McMuffin and a milkshake, the shake had the most fat and calories..."

I wouldn't doubt it.  But please don't take my MacDonald's sausage-and-egg MacMuffin away from me.  When I'm traveling, that's the first breakfast food I always look for.

And, BTW, I happen to think that MickyD's has the best coffee as well.  Sorry, Starbucks.

there's only one way to find out...

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YMMV

Lou.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 09:04:48 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

I actually think sodas are the worst.  Lots of sugar, not much nutritional value.

I used to LOOOOVE Coke.  Love it love it love it.  Of course, I kept gaining weight.  When I stopped drinking Coke (and did nothing else), the weight gain stopped right in its tracks.  Now I'm adding exercise and eating better to the mix (although I wasn't eating that badly), we'll see what happens.  

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

joshv.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 06:49:46 PM EST

3.33 (interesting, interesting, obnoxious)

"Then there is 'organic' food that's really, really bad for you.  I have a fondness for french cheese and 'charcutrie' (e.g. traditionally made cold cuts) which are largely organic in nature, but terrible for your diet."

Cheeses and fatty meats are some of the healthiest foods you can eat.

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

thefadd.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 03:18:06 PM EST

3.50 (interesting)

The fatty meats I will go with but in what way do you mean with the cheese? There's almost no reason for anyone to eat dairy.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Oh yeah?

Lou.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 05:37:53 PM EST

4.50 (astute)

There's almost no reason for anyone to eat dairy.

Except that dairy products can be t-total fucking-a delicious.  Hell...I might go buy some ice cream right now!

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Oh yeah?

thefadd.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 05:39:36 PM EST

3.50 (funny, funny)

Well, yeah, I did mean other than that:)

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

joshv.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 05:25:38 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

Well, my northern European ancestors have been eating dairy products in great quantities for millennia.  We are quite nicely adapted to it.  Some people are not, they should try to avoid dairy products.  What I've never understood is the near universal consensus among the earthy-crunchy health food set that eating dairy products is the next closet thing to drinking battery acid.

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

thefadd.

Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 08:13:31 PM EST

3.00 (interesting)

My question was an honest one and not meant as a slap. Other than taste, I don't know of any benefits to dairy that aren't more easily gotten elsewhere. Personally, it makes me tired and (excuse the honesty) constipated. I suppose during the cold months in nordic regions, dairy is more readily available than vegetables, tho, for things like calcium.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

skeeter1.

Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 01:32:52 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

"I suppose during the cold months in nordic regions, dairy is more readily available than vegetables, tho, for things like calcium."

I'm not much of a milk drinker, but I do love cheese.  Hard to make a decent omelet, frittata, Welsh rarebit, or even the lowly grilled cheese sandwich without it.

I've tried my hand at making my own cheese (bought a cheese press and everything) but never got very good at it.  I made some cheddar once that was only passable.  There's some skill there that I'm just plain lacking.

Then again, if isn't a package out of a box, I can't bake for shit either.  I'm better off sticking with the grill (what all men do) or a hot wok.  

there's only one way to find out...

1

Re: Organic food or processed food?

joshv.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 01:10:58 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

Isn't entirely possible to have an processed food made entirely of organic components?  I mean, in theory you could make a Twinkie from organic ingredients.

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

Lou.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 01:13:56 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

Only if it were sold in a hermetically sealed container able to withstand time, toxic and radioactive exposure.  Otherwise, load up the chemicals.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

skeeter1.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 03:01:50 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

I just bought some Amish-farmed, free-range chicken eggs, because I love them.  I'm thinking of using some of them with my fresh mung bean sprouts and trying some egg foo yung.  

OTOH, I've also got some "Little Debbie's oatmeal cream pies" sitting around here, and I know that they're loaded with preservatives.

Oh well, either way, they'll go down just fine with the right wine.

there's only one way to find out...

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

tomc.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 07:42:30 PM EST

3.66 (astute, astute, astute)

How is Amish-farmed different from any other organic farming?

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

skeeter1.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 08:13:24 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

It's probably not.  It's just that I live fairly close to Amish country, and travel there quite a lot.   I trust the way they live, work, raise livestock, make cheese, etc.  I've never gotten a single thing there that I've ever been dissatisfied with.  As long as my local store keeps selling Amish eggs and cheese (Yoders (tm) brand) , I'm going to keep buying them.  Come springtime, I'll be back down in Holmes county, Ohio to see if the cute little kids are selling strawberries by the roadside.

Ohio may not have a lot going for it at the moment, but we've got a big (and to my mind, important) Amish community.  I'll continue to support them in any way I can.

there's only one way to find out...

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

jwb.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 06:45:13 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

Actually I don't think that's right.  You can't make organic high-fructose corn syrup because you need a number of toxic artificial reagents to produce HFCS, and the use of those chemicals is against the USDA standards for the "organic" label.

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

joshv.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 08:02:34 PM EST

3.00 (interesting)

Or you could just use organic sugar.

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 08:21:40 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

A Twinkie has sugar, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, and dextrose. I think it's unlikely that replacing the syrups with plain sugar would yield a product that tastes the same.

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

thefadd.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 03:15:51 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

it's unlikely that replacing the syrups with plain sugar would yield a product that...

...still tastes the same when you open the package 5 years later.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

4

Re: Organic food or processed food?

Degee.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 03:19:15 PM EST

4.00 (astute, astute)

Note: non-organic need not be processed.

I tend to go organic but if it's a choice between organic grown 2000 miles away and non-organic local, I will usually go local.

I guess because I am not convinced non-organic is as bad for me as  the CO2 produced in the long haul transportation of any veggie/food stuff.

Not to mention the murkiness of the definition of organic.

I also have my favorite processed foods: any reputable sour cream and onion chips and or cheese crunchits(TM?) are just dandy with a brewski and the game.

Am I a great person? Hell no - by most metrics I'm pretty much an asshole. -TSlothrop

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Re: Organic food or processed food?

skeeter1.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 03:50:49 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

"I tend to go organic but if it's a choice between organic grown 2000 miles away and non-organic local, I will usually go local."

I try to do the same.  There are still a couple of greenhouses near here that grow hothouse tomatoes, and frankly, they're still better than the imported stuff.  I've got nothing against canned tomatoes for cooking, but I do like a fresh tomato in my salad.

there's only one way to find out...

16

little help?

wetkarma.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 04:15:06 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Ok lest I be thought of a fat simpleton, allow me to say that I'm 5' 10" and around 160...that at least takes care of the fat part.

What's the deal with  food labeling and what does it mean? Can someone give me a laymans definition of what the term "organic"  "wild" and "local" means? More important whats the connection to the health/nutritional value of foods labeled as such vs. non-labeled food?

Generally speaking I eat whatever I crave for -- this is usually a general mix of salads, burgers, steaks, soda paying little attention to ingredients. If it tastes good, I eat it again.

My general understanding (imparted at the same awareness level of understanding who amy winehouse is and why she is constantly in the news here in the UK) is that organic probably means pesticide  or perhaps preservative free. Wild means ..no idea really...bison perhaps? As for local...surely this is marketing and has nothing to do with food?

Anyway, one of you guys must be environmentally/health concious types...consider this an opportunity to make me a convert. What exactly is the focus on these category labels for food?

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: little help?

thefadd.

Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 07:54:25 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

"Wild" is as opposed to farm raised. From a purely statistical stand point, you simply don't get the diversity in genetic background in a farm environment. This leads to both more static taste (good for masses, not what I'm looking for) and higher likelihood of diseased/medicated food product.

"Organic" is as good as the brand behind it. I'll tend to err on the side of organic but not put a ton of value into that label unless I've researched the company behind it and how/where they do business. I'm looking for fresh as much as I'm looking for organic. Maybe that company figured out some packaging to make their food last a little longer but still allow them to keep the organic label. I'm still losing versus something I just bought off a farm.

To me, those labels aren't as important as the type of food that I'm eating in the first place. While the political vegans/veggies garner the higher pub, I think the vast majority of people who come to a healthier/more well thought out diet do so more quietly out of some simple necessity that confronts them at some point in life. If you don't ever get sick and don't ever get too fat/too thin, then there won't be much motivation to change.

For me, the point came about 5-6 years ago when several medical problems came to a head for me for which none of a line of doctors could pin point a treatable solution. Since that point, I've slowly migrated my diet from one of whatever I felt like to very high in fruits in vegetables, followed by one meat protein a day and the very occasional grain or nut. I'm also on a very big garlic/oregano/ginger kick right now. And to speak to skeeter's point, yes, there was a lot of balancing of cravings during that time. I used to have to fight to not eat the free office bagels on Thursday. Now they don't even look like food to me because I know what happens to my day when I have one.

My diet excludes processed food almost entirely. This includes the trendy vegetarian staples of tempeh, tofu and the like. If I want chicken, I eat chicken, not a frozen TV chicken dinner. Five years ago, I didn't think much of the difference. Now I do because I can feel it in my system and (pardon the honesty) see it in my shit. I've come to the point where I literally feel the difference between something that is processed and something that is wild/fresh/organic without needing a label. There are so many degrees even within those labels that I depend much more on my own taste. If eating healthfully is something you want to make important to you, I think it's much more a matter of training that taste than worrying about what labels say.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: little help?

skeeter1.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 07:14:16 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

"Generally speaking I eat whatever I crave for -- this is usually a general mix of salads, burgers, steaks, soda paying little attention to ingredients. If it tastes good, I eat it again."

We're pretty much on the same page there.  I have my doubts that there's much to the "organic" labels, but I do try to buy locally-raised foods, if for no better reason than to keep the money in the local economy.  I also think the greenhouse tomatoes grown here in Ohio are still better than the imports from Florida or South America.  

there's only one way to find out...

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Re: little help?

joshv.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 08:08:06 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

I've never seen any convincing scientific evidence that whatever "toxic residue" is left on/in non-organic foods is harmful to you.  I do think that many modern farming practices are harmful to the land, and the environment.  I was amazed at the response to BP's attempted pollution waiver for their plant on lake Michigan.  The amount they pollute is tiny in comparison to the massive contribution of agricultural runoff on the great lakes.  Where's the public outcry about agricultural runoff?

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Re: little help?

wetkarma.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 08:30:48 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

Same place as the public outcry from radiation emitted by coal mines. Agricultural runoff is 'natural' pollution because salt-of-the-earth farmers do it. BP on the other hand is an evil industrial corporations who fuel their furnaces with orphan stem-cell babies.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: little help?

joshv.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 09:15:09 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

I once had the hardest time convincing a friend that not a single person was killed, or even injured in the Three Mile Island accident.  "But it was such a big nuclear disaster, somebody had to have died, or why would they have made such a big deal about it?"  

On the other hand, dozens of people perish in coal mines in the US every year, and hundreds and thousands perish in coal mines in China with almost no US coverage.

But wait, weren't we talking about organic food?

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Re: little help?

stevetherobot.

Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:01:02 PM EST

3.00 (interesting)

I've never seen any convincing scientific evidence that whatever "toxic residue" is left on/in non-organic foods is harmful to you.

If somebody came to your house and sprayed toxic pesticides on the fruits and vegetables in your refrigerator, then washed them thoroughly and assured you that there was no "convincing scientific evidence that whatever "toxic residue" is left" would be harmful to you, would you eat the food?

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Re: little help?

joshv.

Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:26:04 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

Sure, if they did it exactly the same way it's done in the fields, with the same level of exposure, with the same timing between spraying and eating.   What would be the difference?

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Re: little help?

jwb.

Tue Jan 22, 2008 at 12:27:42 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

The USDA "organic" label is essentially meaningless from the consumer's point of view.  There are better certifications from states (esp. California) and from private organizations.

If you're really interested in the topic I recommend the book The Omnivore's Dilemma

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Wheat

thefadd.

Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 06:48:57 PM EST

3.50 (informative)

Here's a couple good breakdowns on why it's so awful. I disagree with the one poster about rice being okay--I only eat the brown kind. But I can tell you personally that my life is 1000% better since having kicked wheat, rye, kamut, etc to the curb.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

11

Re: Organic food or processed food?

tomc.

Mon Jan 21, 2008 at 07:45:31 PM EST

3.00 (funny)

Eating organic has made me the man I am today.

I picked up a bottle of Boylan's Ginger Ale the other day, and the store clerk said, "Sometimes you just have to have that fructose-glucose!"

I replied, "No fructose or glucose in this soda pop!  Nuthin' but pure cane sugar.  If I'm going to become obese, I'm going to do it organically."

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