Media

Prepared for the digital TV conversion?

skeeter1.

Posted to Media on Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 10:31:00 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Unless you've been living in a box, you probably already know that come February, 2009, the FCC is shutting down regular analog TV broadcasts in the US.

If you like watching the free analog airwaves, like me, you'll be soon be SOL.  I happen to be fortunate to live in an area where I can get all of the major networks' analog signals OTA for free, but whether the digital reception will be as good is hard to know. This website gives good advice on what stations you can expect to get and how to position your antenna to receive them, but you never know for sure until you buy the equipment and test it out (generally, though, your old analog antenna should work just fine for receiving HDTV signals, most of which are on the UHF band, as this FCC FAQ points out).

Cable services have promised to keep their analog signals going, and satellite services have all along.  My limited experience with satellite wasn't good (went out whenever there was a storm - although some people love it), and cable has just gotten too expensive.

In any case, if you have an analog TV, cable or satellite will soon be your only options.  Your cable-attached TV might continue to work, but you won't get HDTV over the airwaves. You'll need to buy a new TV or a federally subsidized digital converter box.

I got a Sharp LCD HDTV several years ago, and it''s still great for watching sports, movies, news, and the like. There are many guides to buying that perfect new HDTV, and all the big box retailers are pushing them heavily. Still, even the cheapest HDTVs will set you back over $200, and something in the relatively common 32" range will probably run you $500 or more.

For little things, I have a Hauppauge device to plug into the USB port on my laptop, and it will run on the batteries for hours if the power goes out. There are guides to buying HDTV tuners for your computer, too.

I'm well aware that there are some "anti-TV snobs" - I know several - but somehow whenever the SHTF, as on 9/11, all of them somehow discovered a TV to watch. Like it or not, television is here to stay.  Better get ready for the change.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by skeeter1, HDTV, analog television, entertainment, FCC, government (all tags)

This story: 23 comments (4 from subqueue)
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2

Re: Prepared for the digital TV conversion?

skeeter1.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 01:19:35 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

"This Christmas my father in law gave us money to buy a new television, so we ended up getting a 42" Vizio Gallevia. So far so good - it has an excellent picture and all the bells and whistles that you could possibly want (especially for that price point - we ended up paying about $1000 for the set because my wife works at a retailer and we used her employee discount, but I've heard that they can sometimes be had new for as little as $899 if you time the sales and promotions just right)."

I'd say you've got a pretty nice father-in-law!

I was stuck between a rock and a hard place when my conventional CRT TV died about five years ago.  Digital TV was already on it's way, so I went with the 37" Sharp Aquos, which was the largest one available at the time.  Being an early adopter, I paid dearly for it -- five grand, and another couple hundred for a HDTV tuner.  The newer ones all come with built-in HDTV tuners.  I'd do it again, though.  Everyone who comes here and watches a sporting event or movie in HDTV wants one by the time they leave.

Some friends of mine recently got a 42" Olevia at Sears for $900.  An even better TV for a whole lot cheaper price.

The hardest decision is which type to get.  I did a fair amount of research before settling on the LCD.  CRTs were out for me.  Big, heavy, consume a lot of electricity, no thanks.  Plasma screens I had experience with at work, and they were also heavy, had noisy cooling fans, a fairly short life-span (~25K hours), and susceptible to "burn-in".  Even those little "bugs" that networks place in the corner of the screen will eventually become permanent.  DLPs will, over time, have some of those million little mirrors fail and leave blank pixels on the screen.

That left LCD, and I still think it's the best choice currently available.  Light weight, ~75K hour lifespan, and coming down in price.

Organic light-emitting diodes (or OLEDs) might be the next big thing, but at $2.5K for an 11" screen, I'm going to pass for now.

there's only one way to find out...

5

Haven't properly owned a tv in 5 years

wetkarma.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 03:28:05 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

Due to a variety of warranty issues (and Costco's liberal return policy now defunct I'm told )and then a move to the UK, I haven't actually 'owned' a TV in 5 years. I have however in that time gone through at least 6 televisions migrating from a 32" CRT to a 42" DLP to a 42" Plasma to 37" Plasma to a 37" LCD.

I -really- liked that LCD; it was the Phillips with the "AmbiLight" technology that cast a backlight in the color of whatever picture was on the screen. Unfortunately I had to give it up when I moved to the UK -- now that I'm here, the landlord provides a 37" wall-mounted LCD.

Having tried a wide variety of these devices, my general short takes are as follows:
DLP's have a great picture + low cost - however they are relatively bulky and the bulbs tend to fail.
Plasmas (rather the ones I've used) tend to suffer from screen burn in which means that Plasma + Tivo equals ghosting.
LCD's are great but suffer just a tad if you are watching sports game -- they don't refresh fast enough.

As to the standards: the difference between 720p and 1080p are nigh undetectable for anything under 42". It just doesn't matter if you can't see the difference. Unless you have the room for it, getting a large tv tends to DOMINATE a small apartment. Wall Mounts are strongly recommended, and even so I think apartment dwellers should limit themselves to 37" at the maximum.

OT but related points: Buy your TV with a credit card that offers to double your warranty coverage. Costco is a great place to get a television, however their return policy is not as liberal as it used to be.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

8

no tv

shane.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 09:34:34 PM EST

5.00 (funny, brilliant)

I gave up my tv nearly 10 years ago and it was one of the best things I've done.  It's amazing how quickly your thought patterns improve after you stop watching commercials and sitcoms.  I do use my computer to watch the occasional movie.  So I guess I am ready for HDTV...

10

^ 8

no commercials

JimmyHavok.

Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 02:59:53 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

I stopped watching commercials the minute I got a VCR with a timer setting.  Everything I wanted to see went into the timer, and I could watch it in 2/3 the time without worrying about missing anything when I took a bathroom break.

Now I have a DVR, and while it isn't bulletproof, it does a satisfactory job of archiving what I'm interested in.  Unfortunately, it also means I end up watching more TV than I used to before...but at least I'm watching it more efficiently, and now I can really archive the things I think are worth saving.  With the VCR, I had what I called a dump tape that sat in the recorder and was erased and rerecorded until it got grainy, and anything I wanted to save had to have an archive tape dropped in beforehand.  So I have stacks and stacks of uncatalogued videocassettes of Good Eats.

14

^ 8

Re: no tv

thefadd.

Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 06:22:53 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Yeah, what about the poll answer, "Yes, but I'm not at all happy about it." I may very well get the big new TV and ditch whatever means of reception I would need to watch broadcast/network/cable television. Anyone know a good screen that doubles for the computer?

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

17

^ 14

Re: no tv

1fastdog.

Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 06:01:50 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

I may very well get the big new TV and ditch whatever means of reception I would need to watch broadcast/network/cable television. Anyone know a good screen that doubles for the computer?

I'm not sure if this is too big for whatever area space your pc resides in, but this 32" Magnavox LCD (And yes, I have this model - picked it before Xmas at Target for $550 - and I'm quite pleased with it) has a nice picture, 2 HDMI inputs and you can use it as your monitor. Regular DVDs look great on it, btw, so I'm assuming Hi-Def content will be equally pleasing.
 

Somewhere in my soul, there's always Rock -n- Roll... Joe Strummer

18

^ 17

Price Anticipation

thefadd.

Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 07:10:07 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Thanks, it's good to know you can use that as a monitor since I was actually looking at similar models without the intent to buy while I was shopping during the holidays. $550 is the upper edge of what I'm looking to spend so I might have to settle for the 27-32" range, but if that can double as a computer monitor, that would maybe let me put a little more into it. Ideally, though, for my big/main TV I'd like 37" or 42". I figure costs will hold steady/raise through the early parts of the conversion so I'm not likely to get exactly what I want at the price I want for maybe two years. Anyone think prices will drop in the run-up or immediate aftermath of the conversion?

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

15

^ 14

Re: no tv

shane.

Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 06:38:37 PM EST

4.00 (informative, informative)

24" iMac.  Comes with a remote control, computer built into the screen.   If you're in BC I can order one for you and have it shipped to your door. (I'm a reseller)

3

Re: Prepared for the digital TV conversion?

Degee.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 02:13:31 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Hey everyone who has invested in a high end TV with $50+/month cable or satellite package:
If you were to view your TV purely as a source of information (temporarily disregarding entertainment value),  do you think you're getting your money's worth?

Signed

Trying to rationalize my expensive craving

 

Am I a great person? Hell no - by most metrics I'm pretty much an asshole. -TSlothrop

7

^ 3

It's The Butt Of Many Jokes

uncarved block.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 08:12:10 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

but I find C-SPAN2 and its weekend book programs to be worth it. The selection is nowhere near as good as a decade ago (they hardly used to repeat anything, which upped variety but decreased catching a good author again), but you'll still be able to keep up with what's going on with nonfiction bestsellers-- and not so bestsellers. If you keep away from the partisan crap, you can even learn a heck of a lot about some less than well known topics.
    As far as the regular programming on C-SPAN goes, some of the panel discussions are worth it as well. The analysis after a SCOTUS session covers several different viewpoints, so you get to see which groups and/or political parties felt they won or lost during the year, and all much faster than slogging through blogs, say, or regular media releases. You'll even get some good give and take: I saw John Yoo on a panel, with Linda Greenhouse, and when the discussion turned to how conservative the Roberts court had been, Yoo had a laundry list of pet causes that hadn't been addressed . . to which Greenhouse noted that getting to all of that would have been an ambitious year and a half. A quiet partisan exchange, one that caught a little of the cant in mid-stride without being shrill. (Well, unless you really hate Linda Greenhouse.)
    If you want to fuse entertainment with a faint degree of education, check your local setup and see if Classics Art Showcase is available. It's my favorite background choice, with a few selections even warranting a repeat watch: some of the selections for Carmina Burana are very, um, interesting*, and a few of the videos for Carmen are amusing as well. A bit repetitive for a day of housework, but for an hour or two a day, not bad at all.
   Oh, and if your local college is using the Eugen Weber history of the world series for a class, that was fairly well done too. Good luck on finding that other than by chance, though.

    *This morality fable, for instance. Less than subtle, but it's not every day someone tried to put something akin to Pieter Breughel the Elder on to the screen.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

9

^ 7

Re: It's The Butt Of Many Jokes

Steve Urkel.

Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:12:52 PM EST

3.00 (funny)

You just lost your street credability.

16

^ 9

Dude

uncarved block.

Tue Jan 29, 2008 at 01:21:36 PM EST

3.00 (funny)

    That slipped down the sofa cushions with the spare change before I headed off to college. Can't say that I've missed it much, either.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

13

^ 3

Re: Prepared for the digital TV conversion?

thefadd.

Mon Jan 28, 2008 at 06:01:09 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

I view my DirecTV package as a source of information regarding the National Football League and in that sense it rates an A+. It's a tad overpriced but I don't know of any more efficient source. I pay around $50/month for the regular package just to keep it around in the off season and then $250 for the package of football games, although I am seriously considering canceling now and re-upping again in six months. Their DVR is kinda crappy but I find it difficult to watch TV without it now.

I don't use my television for the gathering of any other information. I do on occasion watch Reno 911 or Sara Silverman but having the satellite package actually costs me in that regard because if I didn't have it, I'd buy more DVDs. Reading about other people paying upwards of $100/month for television really does turn me off to what I'm doing and kinda makes me yearn for the days when my tv was just for video games and vhs/dvd watching.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

4

^ 3

Re: Prepared for the digital TV conversion?

port1080.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 02:46:09 PM EST

none

If you were to view your TV purely as a source of information (temporarily disregarding entertainment value)

Maybe...I watch Modern Marvels and How It's Made quite a bit, and they're both pretty informative. Ditto the random medical and nature shows. I don't get any news from the television though - I can't stand the talking heads. I much prefer my news & opinion/editorial intake to be in written form. Really, though, TV is about entertainment, not information. If you're watching TV for information, you're wasting your time and your money. Anything you can learn on TV you can learn faster and probably better by reading it in a book or online.

6

Re: Prepared for the digital TV conversion?

jwb.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 06:55:13 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

In my experience there's no reason to fret about reception with digital television.  I recently purchased a Pioneer TV that can receive HDTV over-the-air and it pulls in many more stations that I could watch with my old analog TV, even using the same stupid $5 Radio Shack indoor rabit ears.  I was quite surprised to find that I could get Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS (six different channels thereof), and a number of local stations with crystal clear reception.  I don't even need to move the antenna any longer.  I just leave it in the same place all the time and it looks fine.

With regular analog TV I could get only a single channel with acceptable quality, and then only after considerable fiddling with the antenna.

19

Too much of a good thing

3fingerspointback.

Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 03:36:38 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

The big problem I had when I was looking for my perfect HDTV was that a 32" screen was just past the high range of good sizes for my apartment.  These things are being sold with the assumption that everyone who buys one is going to be devoting their entire room to the set.  I just want to sit on the couch and watch old Simpsons episodes, I don't want to blast out my eyes or turn a wall into a TV!  That brings me to the other peeve I have with flatscreens, there's too much push to have these things wall-mountable.  Trust me on this, anything I put on a wall is going to fall off, I'm not about to start with $1k worth of glass and solder.  So instead the thing sits on its flimsy little stand on my entertainment center and creeps me out any time I have to push or pull a connector from the back.  The one I ended up going with is some 29" 720p Philips LCD model that's probably obsolete by now, but it's still pretty.  It also needs some help catching the ATSC signals that I know are floating around San Diego, as it only really gets a couple spanish-langauge stations and fuzzy CBS.

(is 3fingerspointback)

20

^ 19

Re: Too much of a good thing

thefadd.

Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:04:35 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Yeah, there's no way one of those things is staying on my 1920's built wall. I can barely even keep curtain rods attached.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

21

^ 20

Re: Too much of a good thing

port1080.

Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:30:35 PM EST

none

Yeah, there's no way one of those things is staying on my 1920's built wall.

Older walls are often an advantage - they used much thicker dry wall / plastering back then than they do today. The trick is to use the right size wall anchor (and to drill an appropriately sized hole first before you stick the anchor in - don't just try to pound the anchor into the wall, you'll just break out the plaster). With appropriate anchoring, drywall can easily hold 100+ pounds or more.

22

^ 21

Re: Too much of a good thing

thefadd.

Thu Jan 31, 2008 at 01:14:04 PM EST

none

When I drill into my dry wall, it either sticks very well or crumbles completely, depending on the spot. The building has obviously been subdivided in different ways at different times so I'll bet there is some older and some newer in different places.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

23

^ 19

And an annoying update

3fingerspointback.

Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 06:26:24 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

It turns out my HDTV-ready screen doesn't even get over-the-air HDTV broadcasts.  It's NTSC/PAL only.  I found that out just in time for the Super Bowl today, when I discovered that my brand new "HDTV antenna" attached to the set didn't work.

(is 3fingerspointback)

1

Finally caught the HDTV bug...

port1080.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 11:51:15 AM EST

none

This Christmas my father in law gave us money to buy a new television, so we ended up getting a 42" Vizio Gallevia. So far so good - it has an excellent picture and all the bells and whistles that you could possibly want (especially for that price point - we ended up paying about $1000 for the set because my wife works at a retailer and we used her employee discount, but I've heard that they can sometimes be had new for as little as $899 if you time the sales and promotions just right). The biggest thing I think consumers need to look at if they're buying a TV right now, is that if you're getting something bigger than 32" (or maybe even bigger than 20", depending on how picky you are) you should definitely invest in a "Full HD" set capable of 1080p resolution. This makes you more or less "future proof", as right now there simply is no standard better than 1080p (most TV broadcasts are in 1080i or 720p). Movies you buy on Blu-ray and HD DVD discs should mostly be in 1080p, as are some Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 games. If you get a good 1080p capable TV now, you probably won't have any strong reason to update it for at least a decade.

On the other hand, 1080p capable sets are much more expensive than sets that only do 720p (and 720p sets can generally accept a downscaled 1080p or 1080i input, so compatibility isn't necessarily an issue). Whether the added quality is worth the extra cost to you is pretty much a personal decision. Ditto for the LCD vs. plasma vs. rear projection (DLP) debate - I got an LCD set, and for my personal tastes it's more than good enough, especially since a 1080p plasma or DLP set would have been at least $500 more, and probably would have had fewer features. Unless you're a real videoophile, you probably won't see a whole lot of difference between the three formats. Again, though, YMMV, so before you buy go to the store and see the set "in action" first. Keep in mind, though, that a lot of times the stores haven't tuned and tweaked the sets to look as good as possible, and sometimes if you're willing to calibrate the colors on your own you can make a cheaper set look just as good as one of the more expensive brands.

Another thing to keep in mind is how you're going to get the signal. If you're lucky enough to get channels over the airwaves, they'll look just as good as if you pay for HDTV on cable or satellite. HDTV broadcasts look much, much better than SDTV, if you have an HD capable television, and even the SDTV broadcasts over the HD signal look better (in my opinion, anyway). Still, if you live in a hilly area or are far from your closest metro broadcasters, you might have to rely on cable or satellite. I personally love my satellite package - right now I'm with Dish Network, and using their DishDVR (which is spectacular - better than TiVO, in some ways). The package I get (which is comparable to Comcast's basic digital package with a DVR HD channels added) is about $75 a month (although right now I'm getting the HD channels "free" for a three month promotional, so it's only $55 a month until March). With Comcast the same package would be around $90 or more. Before we bought our house, when we lived in an apartment complex, we were able to get Verizon's FiosTV, which is a great service that is even cheaper than satellite - with DVR and HD, it was only about $55 a month (and their internet service is even better), but the DVR included in the Fios package was very mediocre compared to Dish Network DVR. We had no service interruptions at all with Fios, however. We do on rare occasions lose the satellite signal (mainly when there's a bad electrical storm - normal rain doesn't seem to affect it, unless it's a torrential downpour - snow doesn't affect it at all, as long as you keep snow from building up on the surface of the dish itself), but we had even more problems with losing our Comcast signal at random times for no apparent reason. No matter which way you go (cable, fiber optic, or satellite), keep in mind that not all channels are available in HD, and even those that are available in HD don't necessarily broadcast all their programming in HD. A&E, for example, broadcasts some shows in HD and some just in regular standard definition.

11

^ 1

Re: Finally caught the HDTV bug...

profwhat.

Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 03:46:32 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Can you talk more about why the Verizon FiOS DVR was not satisfactory, and what you like about the Dish Network DVR?

I was an early DVR adopter, having bought a ReplayTV in 2000.  Loved it, but it won't work with digital cable (at least, not easily).  Now, I am forced to use the Comcast DVR.  The only good thing about that poorly programmed bucket of bolts is that it can record two shows simultaneously (and do picture-in-picture for two channels, which is nice on election nights).  It seriously suffers, though, from the fact that its user interface was designed by Chinese dissident prisoners being paid $0.08 an hour.  (At least that's what I'm surmising).

12

^ 11

Re: Finally caught the HDTV bug...

port1080.

Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 04:53:49 PM EST

none

Can you talk more about why the Verizon FiOS DVR was not satisfactory, and what you like about the Dish Network DVR? The FiOS DVR (I'm pretty sure it was this Motorola QIP6416 DVR ) was underpowered in some ways (or at least, the software was very poorly optimized). When you set a show to record all episodes of a TV show, it would sometimes take a full minute or more for the DVR to check if there were any conflict with upcoming shows and give you advice on how to resolve them. The FiOS DVR also would lock up (requiring a power-down reboot to fix) fairly often. It also doesn't have a 30 second skip option - you can only fast forward or rewind (although it does have a good Tivo-like "lag time" detector that compensated if you overshot your target while fast-forwarding, which is something the DishDVR does not have). One thing it had that was nice was a lot of "on demand" style functions. The FiOS unit also does not support external hard drives, which is an issue because the unit comes with relatively limited storage (160GB, completely non-expandable). The menu system and interface were alright, but no great shakes. I certainly wasn't disappointed with it, although I had an actual TiVo unit in the past, when I lived with a roomate in college (it was his, so I sadly had to give it up when I moved out) and I found the TiVo to definitely be superior.

The DishDVR (I have a ViP722), on the other hand, has a very nice menu system, it does support the 30 second commercial skip function, it supports external USB hard drives for archiving (unfortunately you can't directly record to an external drive, but you can play directly from external drives), and it has a very well thought out menu system, which includes options like grouping your recorded shows (another option that the FiOS software lacked). The DishDVR can also be connected to your local network, giving you the some of the same sort of "on demand" functions that are normally limited to cable and FiOS. Some of the early reviews of the DishDVR complained about stability issues, but Dish rolled out some software updates a few months ago that seem to have taken care of almost all of those issues. My one complaint is that the DishDVR isn't the best at fast-forwarding and rewinding HD content - it's fine w/standard def stuff, but the HD can be a little jerky. Most of the time I use the 30 second skip, though, so it's not really an issue. I can't really say how the FiOS was with HD content, because when we had it we just had a standard TV, so I never did any HD recording. If we're comparing the DishDVR with TiVo as a baseline, I'd say it's pretty much on par with TiVo, better in some areas and not quite as good in others.

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