Politics

Mr. Masked Gunman Armed with Landmines and Makeshift Explosives, tear down this wall!

pO157.

Posted to Politics on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 11:11:54 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Masked gunmen blew a 7 mile gap in the security wall sealing off the Gaza Strip yesterday morning. Tens of thousands of refugees then walked across the border to Egypt to buy supplies for the enclave which has been cut off from the outside world for months.

The barrier had been damaged by at least 15 coordinated explosions followed up with an attack from a bulldozer. Egyptian border officials, who did not interfere as long as those crossing did not carry weapons, estimated at least 60,000 people crossed the usually sealed frontier.

The Gaza Strip has been under an Israeli blockade for 8 months, after Hamas displaced Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party in June. The blockade tightened to a full lock down 6 days ago when all shipments into the center, including fuel and humanitarian aid were blocked by Israel.

The situation does not appear likely to resolve soon, with the Israeli foreign minister stating that their nation is willing to accept whatever penalty is assessed from the international community in order to protect itself. Mr. Tzipi Livni stated Israel does not need "to apologize for protecting its citizens. Israel will continue to act and fulfill its commitment to its citizens even at the price of condemnation."

The President of Egypt explained he had allowed the Gazans to cross because they were starving and needed food. One 28 year old resident of Gaza was found wandering through Egypt with his daughter, explaining that he had never been outside the enclave in his entire life. "I'm coming just to break that ice - that all my life, I'd never left Gaza before."

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by pO157, Gaza, Palestinians, Hamas, Israel, intifada, Egypt (all tags)

This story: 15 comments (1 from subqueue)
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7

A Golden Opportunity

skeptic.

Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 12:56:58 PM EST

5.00 (interesting, interesting)

If Egypt were to simply annex the Gaza strip, that could make life easier for everybody.  Egypt could certainly take control of the territory away from Hamas and halt the rocket attacks (which it would be obligated to do, since it has already signed a peace treaty with Israel, the Camp David Accord) while at the same time providing a much more viable economy for Gaza as a part of the greater Egyptian economy.  Palestinians are already turning to Egypt for help, so they might as well receive it in full measure.  I don't see any downside, as long as the UN Security Council gives its blessing.  

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A Bold Plan ... But For One Thing.

MayorBob.

Thu Jan 24, 2008 at 04:59:11 PM EST

4.50 (astute, astute)

As basically your poster children for dysfunctional Muslim fundamentalists, Hamas is probably as much anathema to the Egyptian government as they are to the Israelis.  And didn't the Egyptians have like over 20 years to make things nicer for the Palestinians in Gaza before the Israelis beat the tar out of the Arabs back in '67?  I'm not seeing a whole lot of humanitarian milk of human kindness pouring from Egyptian teats to Palestinian mouths over this.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

10

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Re: A Bold Plan ... But For One Thing.

skeptic.

Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 09:22:57 AM EST

4.00 (interesting, interesting)

Of course you are correct, and even as I type Egypt is doing its best to re-seal the border.  I think that Egypt would rather that Gaza continue to cause problems for Israel, even though Egypt could make things much better if they wanted to.  I am sure that to some extent, and in spite of their peace treaty, Egypt still hopes that Israel will eventually be destroyed by the various seemingly insoluble problems which it still has.  Egypt has little motive to be helpful.  As you say, they don't care about the suffering of Palestinians, who have been used as pawns in the Arab-Israeli conflict for the past 60 years, with no end in sight.

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Re: A Bold Plan ... But For One Thing.

Shy Elf.

Sat Jan 26, 2008 at 10:52:40 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

I've thought that having Egypt take over would be the best solution for many years.  I knew that the the blockade would force Hamas to do something, but I never guessed that what they would do is try to force Egypt to take over.  This really is a much better response than anything I would have expected.

The Egyptian government is in a very delicate situation.  They've shown over and over that they don't care about the Palestinians or want anything to do with them, but they are already having to suppress Islamic parties to stay in control.  They're very afraid of doing anything to the Palestinians which would result in a backlash against them in Egyptian public opinion.

Israel wants Egypt to take over as well, so that they don't have to spend money on the Palestinians it looks like, but still no movement out of Egypt.  Probably little will change, but the wall getting knocked down is the most hopeful sign I've seen in quite some time.

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Re: A Bold Plan ... But For One Thing.

thefadd.

Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:27:39 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

I think Egypt is smart to stay out of it and has a sound historical backing for their decision to do so. Getting involved would simply cause overt conflict between them and Israel and Egypt would gain no benefit from that at this time.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: A Bold Plan ... But For One Thing.

skeptic.

Sun Jan 27, 2008 at 01:27:49 PM EST

none

Interesting link, thanks.  

Of course, Gaza could be part of a self-governing state, as agreed in the Oslo Accord, rather than having to be controlled or annexed either by Egypt or by Israel, but they messed that up by choosing Hamas as their government, since it is a terrorist organization which refused to recognize Israel (the country from which they expect to receive a continual flow of material goods) and which continues to launch rocket attacks against Israel.  

But then, Israel has lots of enemies, not just Hamas, and by cleverly putting Israel in the position of having to cause even more suffering for the people of Gaza, Hamas wins a public-relations victory which may eventually lead to some overwhelming attack on Israel (probably originating in Iran, which has already called for the destruction of Israel) which might give Hamas the victory over Israel that it has been fighting for.  But meanwhile, there is an enormous amount of suffering that results.  It is a very cruel strategy, and it is cruel both to Palestinians and to Israelis.  This is why a terrorist government is not a good idea.

9

Update!

pO157.

Fri Jan 25, 2008 at 09:19:18 AM EST

4.50 (informative, interesting)

It's starting to get hot over there. Egyptian guards are forming human shields and firing in the air to keep people out, but the Palestinians are just knocking down other sections with the same bull dozer.

I hope cooler heads prevail, otherwise somebody is going to do something stupid and they will have a large scale border riot going down.

Spread it on!

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Re: Update!

thefadd.

Wed Jan 30, 2008 at 07:42:42 PM EST

4.00 (funny, funny)

Why are so many middle easterners fans of the 80's fashion? Between Iranian President Borat, I mean, Ahmadinejad's member's only jacket and those shirts I always see the Palestinians wearing, I now realize exactly what these men are fighting for. Or is it a secret revenge by their female population--"if you subjugate me and force me to dress you while wearing a burca, I will dress you like Steve Guttenberg."

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Update!

thefadd.

Fri Feb 01, 2008 at 06:12:22 PM EST

3.00 (funny)

I'm disappointed that no one has yet pointed out that the Palestinians are christian and don't wear burcas.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

1

Prison Break

novy.

Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 12:49:46 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

I assume Hamas itself was responsible for blowing that 7-mile gap in Egypt's security wall. Mubarak's statement that he was allowing Gazans to cross was pretty funny since he hadn't allowed any to cross before they blew up his wall. Reports that Egyptian border guards were allowing unarmed Palestinians to cross had to be addressed so that it didn't look like mass civil disobedience by armed Egyptians.

So long as Hamas continues to lob missiles into Israel, what can they expect? Now that they administer territory and don't just represent themselves, they have to consider whether people under their control deserve to be used as pawns in their fight with Israel.

How many Palestinians will refuse to cross back into Gaza? That must be what Mubarak wonders right now.  

2

^ 1

Re: Prison Break

wetkarma.

Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:00:40 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

Good insight. Allegedly this was a planned operation for some time.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: Prison Break

novy.

Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:18:00 PM EST

4.00 (interesting, interesting)

Great article. There was quite some difference between estimate of 60,000 Palestinians who crossed in story above and 350,000 who crossed in your Times link. Will 60,000 be used as measure of whether "everyone" came back? If Hamas can partially empty Gaza, will that make it easier to continue their war with Israel without incurring as many civilian Palestinian casualties? Will huge flow of refugees change attitudes of Egyptians who were trying to distance themselves from mess in Gaza?

I wonder about calling this "victory" for Hamas though. People got out, supplies will make it back in, but underlying Hamas strategy has been disastrous, yet Hamas people seem unlikely to change it in any meaningful way. When US army pursues ridiculous strategy in Iraq or Afghanistan, big chunk of American people get upset and demand change, but when Hamas pursues ridiculous strategy in Gaza, people grin and bear it. Does that really mean Hamas' position has improved, or does it mean that Palestinians have gotten so used to getting screwed that they no longer think they can do anything to make their situation any better and so put up with anything, no matter how unprofitable or dangerous? Has Hamas become its own worst enemy?

4

^ 3

Re: Prison Break

port1080.

Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:06:20 PM EST

none

Does that really mean Hamas' position has improved, or does it mean that Palestinians have gotten so used to getting screwed that they no longer think they can do anything to make their situation any better and so put up with anything, no matter how unprofitable or dangerous? Has Hamas become its own worst enemy?

It certainly does give some credence to the Israeli position that the Palestinians always bargain in bad faith, and that no realistic agreement can be reached with them that they can be trusted to implement. Of course, it's quite possible that Israel's own actions pushed to the Palestinians to this point, but I really do think that right now the Palestinian people are so destitute, feel so betrayed, and are so angry at their situation that they might well put up with a whole lot of mismanagement on the part of Hamas, as long as it leads to Israelis being injured and killed. If Israel gets to the point where the borders are so locked down that Hamas can't really do any damage anymore, though, and they just come across as looking as both ineffective leaders and ineffective terrorists, then I think we might see some desire for change.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

5

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Re: Prison Break

novy.

Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:27:34 PM EST

4.00 (interesting, interesting)

So far, reports suggest that Palestinians in Gaza feel no anger toward Hamas, only toward Israel. But if many of them vote with their feet by going to Egypt and not coming back, maybe that assessment will end up looking like lie and brave face. Hamas has provided ineffective leadership, but so long as they remain effective terrorists, they seem to have following.

Maybe if West Bank fares better than Gaza does (if Palestinians there actually get peace agreement that makes sense), Fatah will look like true Palestinian government instead of equally ineffective farce.  

6

Egypt "Won't Force Gazans Back"

novy.

Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 04:39:14 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

Egypt says it will not use force to get Palestinians to return to Gaza. It also says that as soon as they all go back, it will rebuild its will. Right, as soon as they all go back.

60,000? 350,000? How many more may yet stream into Egypt, where they will receive de facto sanctuary? If you were Palestinian, would you go back to Gaza, where there would be no electricity, dwindling supplies of food, and government that wants to have it out with Israel?

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