I seriously believe that gun safety needs to be taught to all (American) children, even/especially if you're against guns. It might not be so important if your children are never going to come across firearms, but if your kid's best friend is Officer Friendly's son, teaching him that guns aren't toys and shouldn't be used without strict supervision would be of great benefit not only to your child, but other children as well. Just in case Officer Friendly's son thinks guns are cool, and that your kid needs to see his dad's service pistol while he doesn't know they're playing with it.

I don't have a gun safety story (other than to say I was able to fire a .22 when I was 6 or 7 without shooting myself in the face), but fire safety education is along the same idea. Preventing my sister and her friends from playing with matches underneath the back end of a car probably saved someone their Mustang.

- derumi (del-me)
"Bobby Fischer? Man, that guy is crazy!" - Mike Tyson

"If we don't teach kids how to use dangerous things they will find them and use them the wrong way."

Yeah, the kids in my neighborhood are always getting into the machine guns.  Kids!  What can you do?

I've fired the full-size version of an Uzi (which is 3 pounds heavier) and after maybe 4 rounds it would rise a good 45 degrees from parallel to the floor.

That surprises me. In my experience you can easily stay on target with an UZI while firing bursts.
OTOH my sample size is small (fired one magazine for some qualification thing during military service), and at the time I was already used to the way more hefty G3 and MG-3.
Anyhow, the UZI was set to auto, but it was possible to squeeze of single shots, which is what I did (going for maximum points). Until halfway through the instructor stopped me and told me I'd have to fire bursts to qualify. So from then on I fired bursts of 2-3. Looking at the pattern afterwards I still had mostly tens, but a few eights and nines as well, range was probably somewhere between 10m and 20m.

The information in the articles is a pretty thin, I couldn't even find how many shots were fired. It sounds like the accident might have been caused by a combination of an over-exited kid (started shooting before dad had focused his camera) and possibly a careless instructor (didn't hold the gun, which apparently they did for other kids).

Bottom line: guns are dangerous devices (duh, their main purpose is to kill things), but they can be used in a very safe way by people who are properly trained. And it is a lot of fun to fire a gun (pretty much the only enjoyable thing during military service).

Cheers,
Michael

is like teaching only sex abstinence programs or zero-tolerance alcohol programs; it does not allow for good habits to be developed under the practiced eyes of adults

I don't know that I'd have put it quite that way :-) but 21 is patently ridiculous. What is the basis for using 21 as a cut off point for that, let alone anything else? It's worse than knee jerk--it's capriciously arbitrary.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

Pre-requisite note: My mind is rather addled by Canadian Beer, so keep that in mind.

The whole situation is rather sad. On one hand, I can understand wanting to expose your child to firearms in a safe, controlled environment. On the other hand, what in the name of Kardinal Offishall was the parent in question thinking? Handing an 8 year old a loaded Uzi, even under the direction of an instruction is dangerous. That uzi is so dangerous. Even if you got the weapon secured and everything locked like a two-three zone, it's possible for there to be some recoil. Would an 8 year old be able to handle that? Doubtful. That uzi (could be) so dangerous (for an 8 year old).

On the other hand, these knee-jerk firearms restriction laws are equally dangerous. The state rep is trying to be the big dog in his political subdivision getting the electorate to purr 2 weeks from now. It's quite disgusting that he'd use that tragedy for his own gain.

So what's the answer? More responsibility and reminding ourselves that shit happens. Look, in my wife's family (like in other rural American clans) it's quite common to get a varying degree of firepower at pre-designated age increments. For example, a 22 or a shotgun, I forget which (see note above re: Beer, Canadian) at age 12. At age 8? A BB GUN! Not a fucking play date with an Uzi. That is uber uncool. Give the kid what they can handle safely. Hell, in boyscouts I was allowed to shoot .22s starting at age 14, and that's probably about right, if not a bit overly cautious. And what was the NRA instructor thinking by allowing the 8 year old to fire one? I hope he gets his instructor rating revoked, to the fullest extent that a voluntary organization of geographically dispersed people sharing common interests can revoke a certificate.

In conclusion: Shit happens. No disrespect, but this took stupid to another level, so cut the check. No new laws, just more common sense.

Spread it on!

I'm a strong defender of second amendment rights, but it bothers me quite a bit to see the way that a lot of NRA nuts fetishize their weapons (sometimes seems like they might be compensating for other deficiencies...) and treat them and/or use them like toys.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I don't have an NRA membership. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of belonging to the same club as lunatics like Ted Nugent and Michael Moore.

- derumi (del-me)
"Bobby Fischer? Man, that guy is crazy!" - Mike Tyson

I'm a strong defender of second amendment rights, but it bothers me quite a bit to see the way that a lot of NRA nuts fetishize their weapons (sometimes seems like they might be compensating for other deficiencies...) and treat them and/or use them like toys.  They should be looked at like power tools - something that's dangerous, but useful & needs to be treated with respect.

What is up with that? Similar to my recent comment on the Bob Barr/Mossburg thread, one of the best things the NRA could do is keep the loon fringe off the TV. Perhaps if they were viewed by America as the Dale Gribbles of the nation they would be respected more. Of course, it's not right that people are prejudiced in that way against NRA members, but the some gun owners don't help the situation by overcompensating, as you point out.

Spread it on!

Disclaimer: I agree that  there is no sane reason for ever placing an automatic weapon in the hands of any eight-year-old.

However at the same time I think

Target practice was important in the same sense that training to use any tool properly is, but it wasn't something to be done just for the sake of it.

may be going a bit too far in demonizing recreational shooters. I'm not "training" for anything when I shoot:

I don't hunt. [I am extremely uncomfortable with the whole idea of blood "sport" even if one eats everything one kills. I do understand that hunting is an integral part of population management for some species, but it's going to have to be done by someone other than me.]

I am not a law enforcement officer nor am I in the military.

I'm not even particularly interested in using guns as self defense tools outside of my home. (I do have a concealed carry permit, but I very, very rarely actually make use of it.)

The only thing I guess I'm ever "training" for is the (vanishingly small in my neighborhood) chance of a random home invasion.

So, yeah my guns are adult toys, mostly. I like target shooting for its own sake. I find the mindset I have to achieve to be successful at the range to be very zen-like and relaxing - a great stress reliever. I enjoy all my guns but I don't see them as fetish objects. I do have complete and utter respect for their destructive power and as a result I'm positively anal about safety, but I cannot see them as mere tools.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

I wish the rural kids I met in Alaska had gotten the training you got.  Unfortunately they all seemed to treat a gun like it was a toy.  I went on a picnic with a bunch of them, and when I went to set up a target, one of the kids shot past me at the target as I walked back.

In another incident, three of the kids started shooting at a squirrel in a tree, and kept shooting at it as it jumped to another tree and ran down it into a group of other campers.

I considered it a miracle that none of them had shot anyone by accident.

Power tools are totally fetishized.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

on the History Channel, or other events that involve firearms

I apologize but combining your tasteless thread with all the recent headlines about the assassination "attempt" on Obama, all I can think about is a display wherein you can fondle and fire the models of firearm used for infamous assassinations.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.