Etcetera

Air Force faces a "major procurement crisis"

pO157.

Posted to Etcetera on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 05:43:42 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Air Force generals have gone to Congress demanding massive budget increases. They claim that if they do not receive at least an additional $20B a year for the next five years the fleet will go beyond the breaking point.

Air Force generals complain that years of war in Afghanistan and Iraq have taken their toll on an already aging fleet. The workhorses of the Air Force, the F-15 and F-16 are up to 30 years old and many have flown double their maximum expected lifetimes. The Air Force wants them to be replaced with 381 F-22s and 1,800 F-35s at a cost of $160M and $77M each respectively. Generals told congress that it is urgent that money for both of these aircraft stay flowing because once production lines are closed, even temporarily, it costs large amounts of money to restart the factories. Defense officials say they will be needed in the future to face opponents like China and Iran.

Other aircraft besides the famous fighters need to be overhauled. Cargo planes, refueling rigs, bombers, and special forces airplanes are all aging and "geriatric." Of special concern are the 20 Combat Talons and 17 AC-130Us, which are used by special operations teams and their usage climbs while their numbers drop due to maintenance, repair or crashes.

Opponents say the Air Force is simply overspending by buying expensive weapons systems not justified by the threat level this country faces.

 "One of the reasons their equipment has aged so much is because they continue to move ahead with the development and presumed acquisition of new weapon systems that cost two to three times as much as the systems they are replacing. It's like replacing a Toyota with a Mercedes."

A recent survey of military officers reveals 88% believes the war in Iraq has stretched the armed forces
dangerously thin. But, only 44% of the officers believe the military is currently "broken." This has only aggravated the problem of aging military equipment.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by pO157, Iceman, US Air Force (all tags)

This story: 19 comments (4 from subqueue)
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1

Money well spent...

port1080.

Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 08:26:31 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

This is one area where we can't and shouldn't afford to skimp. America's military position is largely maintained by three things - the Navy, the Air Force, & our nuclear weapons. The US is the only world power capable of world-wide force projection at a moment's notice, and we need to maintain that ability. We don't need to be using it anywhere near as frequently as we have been the last few years, but having the capability is important enough. We got caught with our pants down before World War II, and we were lucky that Japan was only a moderate power at the time. Maintaining an edge in military hardware is absolutely crucial. It's a crying shame that we've wasted so much money in Iraq. How ironic would it be if Bush's only lasting legacy is the regression of the US armed forces from heads and tails above the rest to just one among equals?

2

^ 1

Re: Money well spent...

thefadd.

Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 11:27:07 PM EST

none

Air preeminence is far and away the most important aspect of US military hegemony. I'll go it one better, though. Screw the F-15 and start building some low orbit shit.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

10

^ 2

low orbit weapons

skeptic.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 09:28:15 AM EST

4.33 (interesting, interesting)

In theory there could be a whole new level of military technology based in low orbit, as you suggest.  One impediment to this is that there is a UN treaty on the peaceful uses of outer space, signed by the US, which prohibits any militarization of space.  By treaty, space is reserved exclusively for peaceful uses (surveillance satellites seem to be acceptable despite their obvious military application - they have peaceful applications as well, such as resource management or weather prediction).  Of  course, if the US was truly determined to develop space-based weapons systems, treaties can be broken.  Indeed, the US could even resign from the UN and expel it from its current headquarters in New York, should the US be so inclined, thus rendering all UN treaties inapplicable to the US.  That day may come, although it would be a very drastic move.  In the end, the US will do whatever it feels it needs to do in order to protect itself, and the global security situation seems to be getting worse, not better.  Space-based weapons systems might be just the thing.

However, if, as the above write-up indicates, the US is really expecting military conflicts with China and Iran, I think that global politics are moving in an extremely dangerous direction.  It would probably be better to figure out ways to preserve peace rather than planning new wars.  We just narrowly squeaked through the Cold War without falling victim to global nuclear annihilation, and now we are anticipating new confrontations with China, also a nuclear power, and Iran, which may soon become a nuclear power.  While I would not advocate capitulation, I would still prefer to see peaceful resolutions of conflicts.  The next war may be WW III, and there may not be many survivors.  

7

^ 2

Re: Money well spent...

Shy Elf.

Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 07:07:28 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

I would agree that the main-line fighter plane is close to obsolescence due to being overtaken by missile technology.  The main caveat would be that the only country which appears to be doing intensive missile research is the US, and that the US seems to be banking on main-line fighters and have abandoned SAMs as a instrument of air power, end even its ATA missiles have abandoned trying to project power at distance like the Phoneix missile tried to do.

3

Wow!

MC Nally.

Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 02:23:12 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

But, only 44% of the officers believe the military is currently "broken."
Only 44%?!?

4

^ 3

Re: Wow!

MayorBob.

Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 09:42:54 AM EST

none

They're probably the 44% who actually have to get into planes and fly them on missions.  If you think about it, it probably makes sense that current planes are reaching geriatric status.  Since the first Gulf War, our Air Force fighter planes have been in heavy rotation patrolling no-fly zones in Iraq, conducting combat sorties in the former Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan, and patrolling the friendly skies of the US waiting for the word to deal with hijacked airliners.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

18

Well, this certainly isn't going to help the USAF

skeeter1.

Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:40:34 AM EST

4.00 (informative)

"HAGATNA, Guam -- A B-2 stealth bomber plunged to the ground shortly after taking off from an air base in Guam on Saturday, the first time one crashed, but both pilots ejected safely, Air Force officials said.

The aircraft was taking off with three others on their last flight out of Guam after a four-month deployment, part of a continuous U.S. bomber presence in the western Pacific. After the crash, the other three bombers were being kept on Guam, said Maj. Eric Hilliard at Hickham Air Force Base in Hawaii.

At least one B-2 bomber had taken off safely from Andersen Air Force Base but was brought back when another aircraft plunged to the ground.

There were no injuries on the ground or damage to buildings, and no munitions were on board. Each B-2 bomber costs about $1.2 billion to build."

there's only one way to find out...

5

Well, we're going to spend money on something...

skeeter1.

Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 03:14:25 PM EST

none

Problem that I have is that I thought the F-111 and F-117 were supposed to be the panaceas for the USAF.  God knows, they've already blown a shitload of cash on the V-22 Osprey, and it's just barely flight-worthy.  

Oh well, I have no say in the matter, and it's just more tax dollars going down the toilet.

there's only one way to find out...

6

^ 5

Re: Well, we're going to spend money

Shy Elf.

Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 06:56:22 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

The F-111 F-117 and V-22 are failed systems, but they were well known to have problems well before they were actually deployed.  Simply by not having this kind of problem reports before now, we can assume that the F-22 and F-35 will do better.

The writeup doesn't mention it, but part of the reason this issue is on the front burner for the military is that they've had some older frontline fighters breaking up in flight recently.

Our air force currently is an even match with a force consisting of the rest of the world's air force multiplied by 6.  Once you have air superiority, you don't have to get it 5 more times.  Declining military spending by Russia has a lot to do with this, since they were the only country remotely close to the US in air power.  I'm a lot more concerned with the availability of basic air transport planes (including air-refueling) than I am about the front-line fighters.

8

^ 6

Re: Well, we're going to spend money

thefadd.

Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 11:23:58 PM EST

5.00 (interesting, interesting)

Air superiority is the one aspect that makes the rest of the military might tick and while specific plane types have had their failures, overall it's a stable sector that we've got figured out so I don't have a problem making sure we're set long term there. Additionally, I don't necessarily feel comfortable with that 6x number. While we have air superiority our theory of fewer but higher quality planes has never really been tested on a large scale. In fact, it was nazi germany's strategy and look where it got them. It's already known that if China attempted to assert air power, it would use Russia's lots of cheap fighter planes strategy and they'd have lots. So for our strategy to even have a hope of working, we need to actually execute the basic part, having the most bad ass planes around.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

9

^ 6

Re: Well, we're going to spend money

PenitenziAgite.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 02:16:14 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

What makes the F-117 a failed system?  Inquiring minds want to know, because the upthread link about it mentions rack upon rack of success for that fugly aircraft.  I doesn't even mention that the Serbs figured out how to shoot them down, but even then, one expects a loss or two.  

sierra tango foxtrot uniform

11

^ 9

Re: Well, we're going to spend money

Shy Elf.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:06:33 PM EST

4.50 (informative, informative)

Principally, I was thinking of the fact that only 59 of them were built, leaving the unit cost at $122M.  Obviously the defense department didn't see this as a plane worth investing heavily in.

The "F" in the F-117 name is disinformation, since it is a bomber and not a fighter.  Despite this, it carries the payload of a fighter.  Maintenance requirements were very high.  The plane had a very low hit rate in hitting its targets, probably because they didn't want to paint targets because that would give an attacker something to home in on.

And of course, as you say, the Serbs figured out how to negate much of the plane's stealth abilities by setting their radars to very long wavelengths.

Like the F-117 and the V-22, it's still a useful vehicle to have around, but it's clear the military wishes it put its money into something else.

12

^ 11

Re: Well, we're going to spend money

PenitenziAgite.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:10:45 PM EST

none

That is a pretty steep price, and it probably should have been called the A-117.  They're being retired soon, I understand.  Very short active life.  I don't feel I got my money's worth.

sierra tango foxtrot uniform

13

^ 12

Re: Well, we're going to spend money

Shy Elf.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 01:59:19 PM EST

4.66 (interesting, informative)

It should be the B-117(which I think is already taken).  A bomber like this is designed to be given a target, go hit it, and come back.  A ground attack plane is something different.  It is designed to hover over ground troops, wait for something to attack them, and then kill it.  The US long ago ceased building new ground attack planes which should be designated A-xxx.  Some old ground attack planes are still in use, but all new aircraft to fill that role are helicopters, principally the Apache.  This has always struck me as a mistake due to the vulnerability of a helicopter, but the military views this as outweighed by the ease of targeting with a helicopter.

14

^ 13

Re: Well, we're going to spend money

PenitenziAgite.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 06:03:36 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

There's a C-117, but I couldn't find one here.

sierra tango foxtrot uniform

16

^ 14

c-117 coming right up

Lou.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 06:13:32 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

Here you go

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

19

^ 16

Re: c-117 coming right up

PenitenziAgite.

Tue Feb 26, 2008 at 02:30:31 PM EST

none

Yes, but there's no B-117...

sierra tango foxtrot uniform

15

Outclassed? By who?

PenitenziAgite.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 06:12:03 PM EST

none

In 2001, the Air Force ordered 10 F-15E's, at about $570m.  Is it really outclassed by anything a foreign power can field?  Besides, isn't it really about our awesome pilots and aviators (can't forget the Navy!)?  

sierra tango foxtrot uniform

17

^ 15

Re: Outclassed? By who?

Shy Elf.

Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 10:42:16 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

Since we're planning to sell the F-35, yes it is.

This story: 19 comments (4 from subqueue)
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