I often wonder about that same thing. Asian car makers put factories in the US. Do they use UAW labor? If not, are the wages and working conditions fair? You'd figure if the unions are all that really are saving our people from working in sweatshops that you would have some kind of horrific Upton Sinclair like working conditions in these Honda plants.
I live in another struggling rust-belt city. I simply cannot fathom the seemingly self-destructive blue-collar mentality some of the folks around here have. We recently a new elected county official who wants to run things like a business because high taxes are driving everybody away and keeping new jobs out. One of his first moves was to make certain government jobs part time that only get 8 paid holidays a year plus vacation instead of 16 paid holidays a year plus vacation. Immediately a torrent of angry letters to the editor ensued in which local union bosses screamed to high heaven that the job of government was to "lift people out of poverty." I posit that this same mentality of 'full pay until the last day' is one of the things that is killing US manufacturing.
Perhaps if the factory didn't have to pay your coworkers $50 an hour in wages and benefits, pensions and no cost insurance for life they wouldn't be so driven to automation.
14
11
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 05:48:39 PM EST
|
"One of his first moves was to make certain government jobs part time that only get 8 paid holidays a year plus vacation instead of 16 paid holidays a year plus vacation."
I have no idea about the jobs involved, but in general I'm against part-time (read: no benefits) jobs, but I fully agree with getting rid of some of the government holidays. IIRC, when I was working we only got 6. No Presidents day, no MLK day, no Columbus day, no Veteran's day (even if you were a veteran)... Either give them to everyone or get rid of them!
Sorry, just my two cent rant.
there's only one way to find out...
15
14
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:22:23 PM EST
|
I have no idea about the jobs involved, but in general I'm against part-time (read: no benefits) jobs, but I fully agree with getting rid of some of the government holidays. IIRC, when I was working we only got 6. No Presidents day, no MLK day, no Columbus day, no Veteran's day (even if you were a veteran)... Either give them to everyone or get rid of them!
The problem locally is full timers get obscene benefits packages and salaries, and due to restrictive union contracts previously negotiated as well as absurdly pro-labor friendly laws it is almost impossible to negotiate with the unions. By paying people as "regular/part timers" or whatever the term is to work 39 hours a week they were still able to get competent people. Even though wages were slightly lower and there were no 16 government holidays plus paid lunches plus hour off early on friday in the summer plus 100% free healthcare plus 100% free pension plus etc etc etc. Hell, I wish I got 8 paid holidays a year plus vacation. Basically the whole thing was a ploy to get around the union, although in this case I could agree with it because of the obscene salaries/benefits completely out of touch with the private sector.
Then again, maybe the local county exec didn't cut enough on the part timers because the part timers benefits package is still completely past what many private sector people get anyway.
16
14
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 06:44:01 PM EST
|
I don't understand why anyone would argue for less time off in America under any circumstances.
It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.
22
16
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:16:24 PM EST
5.00 (informative)
|
I'm with you, brother. Check out where the US falls in terms of vacation days. You know, Canada is looking better and better. But then, moving there would only be a delaying action...soon there will be no such thing as weekends or maybe even time off anywhere.
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
21
16
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Wed Feb 27, 2008 at 08:14:00 PM EST
|
I think we should all get more vacation time. My mandated two weeks off per year sucks, especially compared to some European countries that supposedly get three-four times that amount.
What "private sector" workers take umbrage to is the government civil servants getting 18 paid holidays plus 3-4 weeks a year in vacation, when most of us get only the majors (Christmas, New Years, the 4th, etc) off and have to take extra time for the day after Thanksgiving or veterans don't get veterans day off and then we only get 2 or at most 3 weeks off a year.
Although the benefits packages given to public sector workers (vacation at least) may be comparable to Europe and other industrialized countries it seems patently unfair when we have to support that with our taxes earned at jobs that give us half or less.
24
21
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Thu Feb 28, 2008 at 02:39:05 AM EST
4.50 (interesting, interesting)
|
Then deny your talents to those greedy bastards. Work for a different company or in a different sector. I get 10-12+ per year--MLK, President's, Memorial Day, July 4, Labor Day, Veterans, Thanksgiving and the Day after, Christmas (plus the day before or after if it's on a Tuesday or Thursday) and New Years (plus the day before or after if it's on a Tuesday or Thursday). Plus all the executives in my industry take off half of August and pretty much a full two weeks around Christmas so those are practically working holidays if you don't cash in yours. In my previous job, I also started accruing 3 weeks annual vacation after two years. Man, was that ever nice. If I ever negotiate another contract, I'm not asking for more $$, just more vacation days. Plus, it's custom to take half days before long weekends, so you can add another 4-5 days on top of that.
It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.
37
21
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 01:28:51 PM EST
|
"when most of us get only the majors (Christmas, New Years, the 4th, etc) off and have to take extra time for the day after Thanksgiving or veterans don't get veterans day off and then we only get 2 or at most 3 weeks off a year."
My last employer (a major hospital) had a "Paid Absence Management" program. At my level, 6 holidays and 3wks/yr. No separate sick days. We used to haul our asses in no matter how sick we were. Smart? Probably not.
The upside was that you could bank up to 30 PAM days, and still get paid for them when you left. I quit and got a check for almost $5K.
Is that a better/worse system? I don't know. When I was younger, I had a job where they shut down the company for a week (at their discretion, usually in July) and that was your vacation, like it or not. That sucked.
I do envy the European countries with 4-6wks vacation.
there's only one way to find out...
38
37
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 04:10:43 PM EST
|
My last employer (a major hospital) had a "Paid Absence Management" program. At my level, 6 holidays and 3wks/yr. No separate sick days. We used to haul our asses in no matter how sick we were. Smart? Probably not.
I don't know. I can't recall the last time I was ill enough to miss work. I know some friends employed at places that have sick days on the "use it or lose it" plan tend to have problems with employees calling out for colds, feeling lazy, or being hungover. If I ran a company I'd probably have 4 weeks/year off of flexible leave. Use it as vacation or sick, your choice. If you stay healthy you can take a month long vacation or something. That incentive would probably cut insurance costs. If you get sick, well, at least you could have a few weeks extra in reserve before taking one of those 12 week unpaid family leaves.
39
38
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 06:34:31 PM EST
4.00 (interesting)
|
"I know some friends employed at places that have sick days on the "use it or lose it" plan tend to have problems with employees calling out for colds, feeling lazy, or being hungover."
How true. One former employer had the "use-it-or-lose-it" sick day plan, and we could always count on Willie (once he saw he had another sick day accounted for on his paycheck) calling off within the following week. Good for him. I lost lots of sick days.
My brother (a LEO) can accumulate up to a years-worth (IIRC) of sick days to use whenever he wants. Is that fair to the rest of us? I don't think so.
there's only one way to find out...
42
39
|
Re: Does the US make real shit anymore?
Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 09:31:04 PM EST
|
Is that fair to the rest of us? I don't think so.
I'm burning with rage already.
41
38
|
dealing with sick days
Sat Mar 01, 2008 at 09:27:00 PM EST
|
Our state civil service puts your unused sick days onto your retirement time, so you can leave early if you want. My boss has something like five years saved up.
People coming to work sick is just as much of a problem as people staying home when they aren't, maybe even worse, since you lose the work days of those who get sick. My boss chews out and sends home anyone who comes in sick...but then, he likes chewing people out.