Umm, I'm pretty sure it's not banned in the US.
Depends on what you called 'banned'.
As far as I know, in the US it cannot be shown in a normal cinema session open to the public.
It is shown only to restricted audiences (history students, etc) and not without proper previous brainwashing (they call it 'contextualizing'). The mechanism to assure this, by the way, is that the rights of the film are in special hands. Guess who's!
If you have other information, please tell me, I will reconsider my claim and put the movie on the playlist of my cinema in Mushpokee, Tennessee, just to see how free we are.
Hate speech pretty much has to have a living, breathing target, and the target has to be defined by either race or religion.
Strange argument: So wrt the grandfathers of 'modern' Germans, every lie can be told and every trash poured on them.
It is not 'hate speech' since they are dead and not a race anyway.
But then why 'Judd Suess' is hate? The Jews the film refers to, are dead since centuries!
everyone universally agrees that Hitler was a crazy, warmongering asshat.
Uuuh? Got your history lessons from the back of (kosher) Cornflakes packet ?
Or did the Jews drive him to do it?
Of course the Jews had their share of responsibility in both wars, but that's not the discussion of this thread.
we generally give the title "resistance fighter" to those that oppose authoritarian regimes and lay the term "terrorist" on those that oppose democratic regimes
Are you kidding? Such remarks downgrade your points to 'semi-interesting' (:-)).
Democracies of the British/American style have historically been - and still are - the most war-mongering systems ever existed, the list of their 'democratic' wars wouldn't fit into this forum. Calling their fight 'resistance' and their opposition 'terror' is so naive that you cannot be serious.
By the way: at the end of the war, when, as we all know, democracy won over tyranny, there were 5 presidents: Stalin, Truman, Churchill, de Gaulle and Hitler. Only one of them was ever elected by public vote. Guess who?
I tend to trust the stories of the American troops that liberated the concentration camps
Met one single of them who saw a gas chamber? Met one US-doctor diagnosing one single death by poison gas (they diagnosed thousands of dead inmates!)?
To fake the evidence that exists for the Holocaust would require a conspiracy of the level that would be nearly impossible to hide.
That's what your grandfather would have said when told that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor and let it happen.
Remember the fraud at Dachau, when the US-army proudly presented a homicide 'gas chamber' to the world press? Today it is officially admitted no one was ever gassed at Dachau. There are thousands of such frauds.
I am not saying that every Jewish claim is false. Of course, Jews were persecuted during peacetime and put into work camps during wartime. But that's not what 'The Holocaust' refers to. It is referring to
a) 6 million murdered
b) by an official extermination policy
c) mostly in gas chambers
and none of these 3 claims would resist any normal neutral judicial investigation.
Why most allied archives are still closed?
Why no forensic investigation in Auschwitz?
Why the holocaust-historians avoid every public discussion with revisionists?
Why revisionists get jailed for 5 years (in nearly all western countries, still except the US) for presenting their arguments?
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Re: 'holocaust' evidence
Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 10:55:55 AM EST
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By the way: at the end of the war, when, as we all know, democracy won over tyranny, there were 5 presidents: Stalin, Truman, Churchill, de Gaulle and Hitler. Only one of them was ever elected by public vote. Guess who?
That's such a canard. Roosevelt was elected President by popular vote and Truman ran on that ticket as VP. Truman also won re-election by popular vote. It is true de Gaulle didn't win election at the time of the war, but he did win many free and fair elections after the war. Finally, Churchill wasn't ever a "president" he was Prime Minister, and he won his own district by popular vote and was then voted PM by Parliament. This, by the way, is similar to the way which Hitler won his position, so I'm not exactly sure what your point is...in fact Hitler never actually took the title of President or won such a title in multi-party elections. He was appointed Chancellor (the German equivalent of PM) in 1933 and then declared himself Fuhrer upon the death of Hindenberg (who was the elected German president) in 1934. While a plebiscite was held in 1934 to affirm this, a plebiscite is something different than a multi-party election (since you can either vote "yes" or "no" - you don't have a choice of candidates). And yes, Stalin was a dictator and by no means a friend of democracy. Nobody disagrees with you on that.
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Popular vote: Churchill vs. Hitler
Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:53:37 AM EST
5.00 (interesting)
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Churchill ... was then voted PM by Parliament. This, by the way, is similar to the way which Hitler won his position,
Absolutely not. Since you don't understand the difference, let me explain:
The normal way to become PM in GB is through popular vote: the head of the party winning the elections will become PM.
This was not the case for Churchill. He was never voted head of state through popular vote, but became PM through a maneuver behind the scene - not illegal, of course, but nothing to do with a popular vote, which BTW, he didn't even get after 1945 as 'war hero'.
On the contrary, Hitler, as chief of the party winning the elections, was voted leader of his country by the people.
The fact that in both cases, Germany and GB, a parliament vote is required and some 'president' (or queen) is formally naming him, is of no importance at all for my argument. I thought you would have noticed that.
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Re: Popular vote: Churchill vs. Hitler
Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:22:00 AM EST
4.00 (interesting)
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The normal way to become PM in GB is through popular vote: the head of the party winning the elections will become PM.
Yes and no - Parliament votes on who should be the PM, period. Sometimes this happens right after Parliament is elected, sometimes the PM steps down half way between elections and a new PM is voted in his place (this is how Gordon Brown, the UK's current PM, came to power, as well as former PM John Major, who came to power after a Conservative Part revolt booted Thatcher out). This is exactly how Churchill came to power - the Conservative Party (of which Churchill was a member) had the upper hand in Parliament. Their PM was Neville Chamberlain, but he resigned after the fiasco of "appeasement" and was succeeded by Churchill. Parliament still had to formally vote to make him PM (and they did). The main difference between Churchill and Brown or Major is that the latter two were selected by Conservative Party back-room negotiations, while Churchill was selected by a more non-partisan group, as they were looking to form a national coalition government which all parties could support. Also, while it is true that Churchill lost in 1945, his party did win election in 1951 and he served for another 4 years as PM before resigning. Since you are so upset about Churchill I'm surprised you are okay with how Hitler came to power. After all, his party did not win a majority of the seats in the Reichstag (they had about 33%) - if the opposition had been able to form a unified front, it could have easily kept him from being appointed Chancellor.
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Re: 'holocaust' evidence
Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:07:04 AM EST
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sure, it was meant as a little joke in this sinister discussion. Don't hook on the title 'president', call it 'leader'.
But formally that little joke is true: the only leader elected as such was Hitler (Roosevelt was not president at the end of the war).