Etcetera

Leaders lose face as Most Honorable Lucky Joyous #7 Golden Blizzard leaves China in shambles

pO157.

Posted to Etcetera on Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 03:44:32 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Millions have been stranded at train stations and on the road for days during the most important Chinese travel holiday due to what is being called the worst severe weather that country has seen in at least 50 years. This has worried Chinese leaders, who see any large gatherings as potential trouble and embarrassed their infrastructure with the Olympic games only months away.

The lack of respect for human rights and oppression of the Chinese people has been discussed in the West for years. However,the latest angry crowds were brought together not by politics or internet censorship but by excessive snow which froze the countries transportation system during the most important travel holiday of the year -- the Chinese New Year and Spring Festival.

The storm has stranded thousands on the highways, trapped in buried cars. Power lines snapped in pieces. Worse for the government is mass gatherings of migrant workers spread across the country in train stations, delayed indefinitely. The snows had been building up in remote areas over the past weeks, but until it became a wider problem and became clear that the government did not even have basic plans for a weather emergency it gathered little attention. As the situation widened to impact more than 100,000,000 people and they grew more desperate, stampedes were reported at train stations, cities were without food and water for over a week. Of course, these deaths and civil emergencies were not well covered due to the difficulties working as a journalist in the communist country.

As reports indicate of over 200,000 people sick or injured, black market trading of goods and services, stocks of food and medicine for the coming year being destroyed due to the weather, more snow reported to be on the way, and their neighbors expressing concern the government asked its citizens to have "faith." The Chinese Premier made a rare public apology to stranded travelers, in a country were such measures are uncommon due to fears of losing face. Only time will tell if this will be enough.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by pO157, China, blizzard, snow, FEMA, apology, face, face-off, Red Dawn, Wolverines, snowball, mass transit, bus, train, train station, plane (all tags)

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3

Challenges for the Chinese leadership...

port1080.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 09:48:05 PM EST

4.50 (interesting, interesting, obnoxious)

The next year or two might be interesting for the Chinese leadership. A lot of the reason that their hasn't been a whole lot of protest or resistance to the Communist dictatorship in China since Tienanmen has been that the CCP leadership has done a very good job of co-opting the rising middle / business class into the party (new candidates for party membership are consciously drawn from the ranks of the economically successful). Since China has been having a boom economy for the last few decades, the educated middle classes and upper classes (the most connected groups and the most likely to be able to lead some sort of coordinated revolt - let us not forget that Tienanmen was a student revolt) have been doing very well for themselves and have generally viewed the CCP as a good (if flawed) thing - a necessary evil to keep such a large and diverse country from falling into chaos.

So why does this matter now? Well, two things. First, China's economic boom has softened a bit over the last few months - the Chinese version of the Federal Reserve has been trying to rein in their economy a bit to keep it from overheating, but at the same time the Chinese stock markets have had a small crash in response to the weakening US market (which is where, after all, a pretty large portion of Chinese exports go). Combine this with the open secret that all the major Chinese banks have loaned billions of dollars in bad debt to state-owned companies (which is becoming more and more of an issue as world economic groups try to get those banks to operate according to world standards), and the Chinese economy looks shakier than it has in years. Now on top of that, you have this massive failure in response to the snow, and the regime itself begins to look weak. The Chinese people are thinking, "If they can't keep the economy humming, and they can't even keep the trains running on time, then why are we putting up with this crap?".

This isn't the 1970s anymore - the CCP can still control what runs in the newspapers and what gets on TV, but everyone in China has a cell phone, and the Internet, while censored in China, still can't be censored completely. With instant text messaging and semi-anonymous message boards, the "real story" of major disasters just can't be suppressed anymore like it could be in the bad old days. Right now the CCP's rule is largely consensual (much like Putin's rule in Russia) - but if the Chinese people become discontented, things could get ugly. I think it will take something a bit more major than what we're seeing right now, but if, say, there's a huge disaster related to the Three Gorges Dam, or a huge embarrassment related to the Beijing Olympics, it could serve as the catalyst for an honest-to-god uprising. I don't think said uprising will actually succeed, but the amount of bloodshed required to put it down will put China - and all of its WTO trade partners - in very awkward positions.

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Fear not

Lou.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:11:14 PM EST

4.40 (astute, astute, funny)

Even if the gutters of China run red with blood...even if bodies are stacked five high from conflicts between the citizens and the government...there will be a US President ready to give China Most Favored Nation Status.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Challenges for the Chinese leadership...

wetkarma.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:10:31 AM EST

4.33 (interesting, interesting, illiterate)


I think it will take something a bit more major than what we're seeing right now, but if, say, there's a huge disaster related to the Three Gorges Dam, or a huge embarrassment related to the Beijing Olympics, it could serve as the catalyst for an honest-to-god uprising. I don't think said uprising will actually succeed, but the amount of bloodshed required to put it down will put China - and all of its WTO trade partners - in very awkward positions.

I think we (in the west) have a presumption that China, because it opresses and restricts the liberties of its citizens, is fundamentally an unstable nation. Eventually, we think, the people will rise up and the CCP toppled.

As you note however, as long as China's leaders can provide economic success, their grip on power is fairly firm. Cannot the same be said for every western country as well? We hold free flow of information and individual liberty at such a premium that we rarely question whether modern societies -truly- need it to survive, or whether such concepts are luxuries and entirely optional to the functioning of said societies.

We know from the breakup of the USSR that command economies don't work - but do we know that the Chinese approach to capitalism is doomed to failure as well?

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: Challenges for the Chinese leadership...

port1080.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 05:48:47 AM EST

4.16 (illiterate, informative, interesting)

I think we (in the west) have a presumption that China, because it opresses and restricts the liberties of its citizens, is fundamentally an unstable nation. Eventually, we think, the people will rise up and the CCP toppled.

Well, the thing is, there are already pretty continuous riots / protests / etc in rural China - but they don't get much press coverage because they're out in the rural areas, where Western press-persons don't often go, and where the government still has a pretty good iron grip over the populace, and also because the rural protests tend to be isolated to single issue things (we're not getting enough food this month, we don't have jobs right now, etc). Since they're protests at the lowest levels, among the least educated / capable & most indoctrinated, there's little chance they'll lead to any sort of national revolt. Their relatively endemic nature, however, points out that China isn't quite as stable as the CCP would like us to believe. Indeed, a large part of the reason the middle classes acquiesce to CCP rule is due to their belief that only the CCP can keep the unruly elements in line. What happens when the middle class decides the CCP isn't doing a good enough job anymore? So, here's the thing. You say:

as long as China's leaders can provide economic success, their grip on power is fairly firm. Cannot the same be said for every western country as well?

The difference, of course, is that western countries have a procedure in place for orderly changes of government if the government fails (we call it democracy - imagine that!). China has no such procedure. If there is economic collapse in Britain or the US, the next time elections come up we can throw the bums out. In China, the only way to throw the bums out is through riots & violence. That's why authoritarian nations are always, inherently unstable. Unless they can maintain perfect economic growth at all times, eventually they'll stumble. So far the only country that's been totally successful at that has been Singapore - which, let's not forget, is a tiny, mono-ethnic city state that could hardly be more different than large, multi-ethnic China. Singapore aside, all the other authoritarian "Asian Tigers" (South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia) eventually transitioned to having more or less competitive elections (except maybe Malaysia - although it arguably has more competitive elections than Singapore does). That's why China watchers tend to be skeptical about the durability of the CCP rule, at least as it is. There's just a strong feeling that at some point the CCP will screw up (and why shouldn't it - pretty much every government, Western or Eastern, has fucked up big time at some point - it's not a judgment on the competence of the CCP, it's just the way things are), and end up looking so shameful / incompetent / whatever that it will be difficult for it to credibly maintain its rule. At that point, nobody knows what will happen, because there are no institutionalized procedures for government change in China. Now, that's not to say that we're all gung ho about forcing Western-style liberal democracy on China either - nobody really thinks China will go (or should go) to full, Indian-style multiparty elections anytime soon. But it would be nice to see something like Japan's arrangement, where there is essentially one party in control but there are competitive elections for leadership positions within the party (and an off chance that an opposition party could gain power for a while, if the government commits a gaff so serious that it can't be overlooked).

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Re: Challenges for the Chinese leadership...

doom4rent.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 01:45:41 PM EST

5.00 (informative, astute, informative)

"So far the only country that's been totally successful at that has been Singapore - which, let's not forget, is a tiny, mono-ethnic city state that could hardly be more different than large, multi-ethnic China."

Possibly just nitpicking, but as I've spent a fair amount of time discussing and visiting Singapore for a number of reasons, I'd like to add that Singapore is hardly mono-ethnic.

Wikipedia quotes: "Chinese formed 75.2% of 'Singapore Residents', Malays 13.6%, Indians 8.8%, while Eurasians and other groups formed 2.4%."

Not to mention that race- and religion-related (Malays and many Indians there are Muslim) tensions are quite prevalent, despite the state-controlled media refusing to spend much time covering it. Anecdotally, one of the people I spent a lot of time with was muslim and when she was looking for jobs she would be asked, over the phone, if she was muslim (or if she wore the veil) and was refused interviews many times and even told, plainly, that they didn't hire non-Chinese.

During one of my visits I had a chance to see a political rally and ask some questions about the election process. It's basically the anti-thesis of what we would describe free-speech as. Citizens and groups are not allowed to publish political information in many forms - in particular negative information about candidates.

"'However, individuals seeking to use mass e-mail and mass SMS as tools to influence people, or to affect the outcome of an election, should realise that they are still governed by the laws of the land. And these include libel,' said Dr Balaji.

'They should not assume that the fact that they are e-mailing or SMS-ing information gives them licence to say anything they want.'"
http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=42036

It's a matter of legal terms, mostly, but the conventional wisdom I heard from several people is that the ruling party will consider any negative press or distributed information about them as libel and will censor it harshly. In effect, you cannot criticize anyone in power - even as many members of the government are openly and outrageously corrupted. It's so commonly understood it's become a joke there, but it's not that funny to me, because I was also told that if you staged a protest, you'd be arrested, peaceful or not.

How does this relate to your post... well... I don't know. I guess keeping a strong economy in Singapore isn't as easy as your sentence may have implied. It comes at the cost of individual freedoms, and is leaving ethnic minorities behind more and more every year.

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Government by Riot

Shy Elf.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 03:35:08 PM EST

4.33 (interesting, astute, interesting)

That's why authoritarian nations are always, inherently unstable. Unless they can maintain perfect economic growth at all times, eventually they'll stumble.
What about a nation like North Korea which has had nearly continuous negative economic growth?  You aren't describing the conditions required to avoid a revolution so much as the conditions required to maintain popular support.

China has a fairly-well formed system of government by riot.  Regional and local governments can basically do what they want, that is, they are given authoritarian powers with the exception that they are always subject to correction by higher authority, which comes seemingly randomly, but not uncommonly comes in the form of regional or local leaders being executed.

Naturally, this kind of organization leads to corruption of regional and local officials, who are not regularly scrutinized.  Eventually local dissatisfaction with price increases or worker death rates or pollution reaches a boiling point and you get sizable protests or riots or vandalism, without a terribly large distinction between them because without a right to protest protests are illegal actions by themselves.  The local or regional authorities try to suppress these for a while, and if they can't, eventually the national government steps in and meets most of the demands of the locals.

The overall effect is to keep things quiet, since you can't achieve anything by yourself, and if you do get most of the locals on your side and willing to risk their lives for your demands, you'll just see your demands granted which will reduce the motivation of the locals to protest in ways they can be punished for.

The important thing to remember is that these protests are not against the national government, which plays little role in people's day to day lives in rural areas, but against regional and local authorities or business owners, and that they are not coordinated, but occur at random times so that the national government always has overwhelming force available to bear on them if they feel it would help the situation.

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Re: Government by Riot

port1080.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 03:48:18 PM EST

2.00 (illiterate)

What about a nation like North Korea which has had nearly continuous negative economic growth?  You aren't describing the conditions required to avoid a revolution so much as the conditions required to maintain popular support.


Ahh, but North Korea isn't authoritarian, it's totalitarian.  See what I did there?  In all seriousness, there is certainly a point where a government becomes so oppressive that it can (theoretically) hold on to power forever.  This is particularly true if the state controls all information and has a strong ideological component.  Read Hannah Arendt's On the Origins of Totalitarianism for a more informed take on this.  The thing is, those states almost by definition can't have positive economic growth.  If they appear to be well off economically, it's usually because they're killing large portions of their populations and then redistributing their resources to those who are left (see Hitler's Germany, Stalin's purges, and North Korea's use of slave labor camps).  


The important thing to remember is that these protests are not against the national government, which plays little role in people's day to day lives in rural areas, but against regional and local authorities or business owners, and that they are not coordinated, but occur at random times so that the national government always has overwhelming force available to bear on them if they feel it would help the situation.


I completely agree with your explanation of the urban riots and your picture of how China is ruled - and I didn't mean to imply that the rural riots are a direct threat to the government.  What I was trying to get at is that the government simply doesn't have the same sort of pervasive control that, say, North Korea's government does.  So while those rural riots aren't an issue now, if the CCP pisses off the middle class to the point where there are both rural and urban riots, then they become an issue.  As long as economic growth remains strong, that's not likely to happen - but considering that cracks in that growth are already showing, I'm pessimistic that it can last long enough for the CCP to develop a more effective method of governance.

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There Is No Value Judgment In These Statements

thefadd.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:25:45 PM EST

3.33 (interesting, interesting)

China has had the same government system for better than 3000 years. Foreign royals (Ming Empire) and foreign ideas (communism) have toppled the head but all, even Mao, have left the same system of bureaucratic local governance in place. The changes have been in name and title only. Should the current government falter in some fashion, there's little reason to believe that there would be the cultural impetus to install a different system, as opposed to simply new rulers. China is not on a march to democracy.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: There Is No Value Judgment In These Statements

port1080.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:39:39 PM EST

4.50 (interesting, interesting, interesting)

China is not on a march to democracy.


Did I ever say it was?  You'll note that I have explicitly stated in at least two other posts that I don't think China will become a Western style democracy any time soon (if ever).  All I'm saying is that I don't think the CCP rule is stable.  Even if you're right and the CCP is replaced by a very similar regime if it falls (which, I agree, is quite likely), there will still be an incredible amount of turmoil, death, and economic disruption during the transition from the CCP to the new regime.  China simply cannot afford to repeat the 1910s and 1920s all over again - and the rest of the world probably can't afford for that to happen in China, either.  At the very least, that sort of disorder would almost certainly lead to Japan fully re-militarizing, and very likely to a hot war between Taiwan and one of the factions in the new Chinese Civil War.  Can you imagine what would happen if the US is drawn into that?  It certainly wouldn't be good.  I hate the CCP's record on any number of levels, but I also pray for them to hold onto power as long as possible.  I can see no good coming out of the dissolving of that regime.

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Re: Challenges for the Chinese leadership...

port1080.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:03:11 AM EST

2.50 (obnoxious, interesting)

I realized after re-reading my reply that I never responded directly to the thrust of your post. In answer to this:

We hold free flow of information and individual liberty at such a premium that we rarely question whether modern societies -truly- need it to survive, or whether such concepts are luxuries and entirely optional to the functioning of said societies.

I think basically that the cat's out of the bag now - there isn't any way to have a productive modern economy and have complete information control. Most police states are now firmly locked in the third world level of economies - Myanmar, North Korea - these are not economies most countries would like to emulate. The two countries right now that seem to defy common wisdom are China and Russia - both are basically authoritarian countries, but both also have fairly free and open information flows (especially compared to, say, a North Korea or a Myanmar). Both have also had sustained economic growth during this period of open information / authoritarian rule. The real test will come when their economies stumble (which the business cycle suggests is almost an inevitable occurrence). At that point, will the authoritarian government be able to hold onto power? Will it be able to control the flow of information enough to completely quell dissent? I, obviously, don't think so. Time and time again we've seen semi-authoritarian developing countries that had more or less open societies and market economies, but a very authoritarian government, and every time the authoritarian government eventually fell or transitioned into a democracy. It happened to all the monarchies of Europe, it happened to Czarist Russia, it happened in Chile, as I said before it happened to all the "Asian Tigers", etc, etc. Given this, I just don't see how today's China and Russia can/will be any exceptions. Now, that said, I don't think that if the CCP's rule ends in China that we'll see a democracy come out of that. We could just go to another authoritarian government (or even to a complete breakup of the country). I'm one that believes in the inevitability of western-style democracy. I'm just a pessimist about the sustainability of market-authoritarianism.

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Re: Challenges for the Chinese leadership...

wetkarma.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 06:53:29 AM EST

4.25 (informative, informative, informative)


Now, that said, I don't think that if the CCP's rule ends in China that we'll see a democracy come out of that. We could just go to another authoritarian government (or even to a complete breakup of the country). I'm one that believes in the inevitability of western-style democracy. I'm just a pessimist about the sustainability of market-authoritarianism.

I'm generally persuaded to the 'it'll eventually happen' point of view, but as noted I wonder if this is because of western bias. I've little understanding of how China actually replaces its leadership and thus whether there is sufficient flexibility to change prior policy.

On a separate OT:
JXG: Your mods are really beginning to annoy me. Initially I thought it was a mistake - port's comment is obnoxious? but reviewing your mod history, there is a clear pattern of random mod assignment to comments. Is it too much to ask that you be grown up - or are you too childish to realize that TnT offers transparency on moderator history?

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: Challenges for the Chinese leadership...

port1080.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 03:18:45 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

I've little understanding of how China actually replaces its leadership and thus whether there is sufficient flexibility to change prior policy.


It's basically on a ten year cycle - each new central figure gets two five year terms.  I say "central leader" instead of saying a specific title, because the central leader usually holds many titles - usually a party leadership title, a government leadership title, and he is also the head of the military (eventually - for example, Deng Xiaoping remained head of the military for a number of years after he officially turned over leadership roles to the next generation).   Deng's successor, Jiang Xemin, tried to do the same and held onto his military position well into Hu Jintao's first term.  Hu was able to oust him from that role much more quickly than Jiang got rid of Deng, though (realistically, Deng just eventually resigned when he wanted to - he had far more power than Jiang or Hu will ever have).  There is absolutely no mechanism to replace the leadership in case of a crisis - during Tienanmen, when there was an impasse in the Central Committee between hard liners soft liners, Deng and a number of older party leaders were able to come out of retirement and lay down the law, forcibly retiring the soft liners, breaking the impasse, and putting down the riots.  If a similar situation happened today, it's highly doubtful that anyone in China would be able to take a similar absolute leadership role.  The impasse would have to continue until one faction violently suppressed the other (or simply until civil war broke out).

1

I'd Rather Be

thefadd.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 07:48:38 PM EST

3.00 (funny, funny)

...stuck in a snow storm than at a Tom Petty concert for 3 hours. At least there'd be a story to tell and maybe a couple decent snow ball fights. However, these people appear woefully ill-prepared for any weather below 54F.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

2

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That 54 degrees fahrenheit really only applies ...

MayorBob.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:57:32 PM EST

4.00 (informative)

... to the far south of China, which includes Hong Kong.  For the more populous regions of China, it looks like they've been experiencing constant sub-zero temps and going down as we speak.  Add in substantial snowfall and ice storms which totally fuck up the Chinese transportation system and you have a world class disaster.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: That 54 degrees fahrenheit really only applies

thefadd.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 10:19:29 PM EST

4.50 (informative, informative)

Yes, and they're not used to it.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Cascading Failures

Shy Elf.

Tue Feb 05, 2008 at 02:38:18 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

China is not used to snow, so of course it will cause transportation problems.  The roots of their problems with this storm go deeper, however.

Electricity demand is way up with increased prosperity.  Recently a series of high-profile coal mine disasters resulted in a government crackdown on unsafe mines.  These two factors combined to create a coal shortage even before the latest storm.  Heavy snows in parts of the country where snow was not so unusual had already further reduced coal supplies.

While there is a relatively free market in coal, electricity prices are capped by the government, which resulted in a situation where generators lose money by selling electricity, and generators started taking plants offline resulting in blackouts.  This is reminiscent of the China's recent diesel fuel shortage, when refiners shut down because with price controls, they lost money by running their refineries.

In any case, even before the storm, China was suffering widespread coal and electricity shortages.  Then the storm hit and increased coal and electricity demand and shut down coal transportation.  More power plants ran out of power and shut down.  More electric trains were taken out of service because of power blackouts, which deepened coal shortages.  At the busiest travel time of the year, when transportation capacity was already insufficient even in the best of times, priority was given to coal transportation (normally the lowest priority) over passenger trains.

This left what appears to be hundreds of thousands of people waiting at train stations outside in freezing weather for days.  It's not clear to me from other reports just how well the government handled this situation, since some reports have the government opening hotels for them and telling the passengers clearly that trains were not coming anytime soon.

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