They still hold a place in my heart.
Suck on that, Pats.
It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine
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Most Dominant Team Ever?
Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 11:46:59 AM EST
4.50 (interesting, interesting)
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Teams have been gradually getting better with increases in population, improvements in training techniques and improvements in performance-enhancing drugs. If you ask which team is the best ever, it probably was the Patriots this year.
If you ask the more relevant question of which team was the most dominant ever, my pick is the '85 Bears, who while scoring 91 points and giving up only 10 in the playoffs, finished the season with only 3 games with results of a 7 point win or worse, compared with 5 for New England and 6 for the '72 Dolphins.
Dan Marino gets my pick for the best quarterback ever, in significant part for dismantling the '85 Bears with timing-pattern short passes even as offensive line was being shredded.
The Patriots are clearly the better team, but anything can happen in a single game, and the Giants were significantly underrated due to their -10 turnover ratio during the regular season. Since turnovers are mostly luck, a team with a negative turnover ratio is generally better than its record would otherwise indicate, and teams with a negative turnover ratio are now 6-4 in the Super Bowl.
The most impressive performance of the game was Ahmad Bradshaw neutralizing the advantage of the New England defense by dragging them for a 5.0 yard average.
Where the Giants really won the game was with their platoon defensive line. The Giants carry 13 players at the defensive line position on their roster vs. only 7 for the Patriots. By continually substituting players, they were able to keep their defensive line fresher and faster than the offensive line of the Patriots.
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Re: Most Dominant Team Ever?
Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 01:11:25 PM EST
5.00 (interesting, interesting)
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I dunno, they say those 70's Steelers were on the juice, too. When I compare all time teams, I use the "dominant in their time" scale, too. I tend to disallow the "better training today" meme in my thinking because I think of the comparison as allowing the teams from back then, the chance to train in today's environment for awhile before facing off--as if there were a full season of all time great teams, complete with off season training. It just doesn't seem fair in the least to hold that against an old time team.
Background aside, now that this team didn't go undefeated, I just don't see them ranking up there among the elites in any sense. They've only got a few future Hall of Famers: Brady, Moss, Harrison, maybe Lyght, maybe one of their linebackers should they win another Super Bowl.
Where the Giants really won the game was with their platoon defensive line.
I really meant to give a shout out to the Giants D-line in my pre-Bowl comment. Obviously I didn't pick the Giants, but one reason I did think they'd keep it close was that I felt like Umenyiora and Burress would each be the best player on the field when they were out there. Eli won the MVP with that final drive, which was obviously everything, but if Strahan or even Umenyiora had put up the numbers that Justin Tuck did, I think they might have handed the hardware to one of them as the defensive line was absolutely the MVP of that game. The safeties also really impressed me. They came up to hit on blitzes and running players but were never once out of position when Brady got time to find Moss deep.
It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.
This isn't directly related to the discussion at hand, but I thought this was more than good enough that it needed to be shared. A WWII/Hitler movie really cleverly dubbed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2triiYXSY8
Watching the Super Bowl is like the TV equivalent of flipping thru a Details magazine. Commercial, man thinks about next play, commercial, commercial, a throw, incomplete, commercial, a hand off, no gain, measurement, commercial, commercial. Fuck.
Am I a great person? Hell no - by most metrics I'm pretty much an asshole. -TSlothrop
I am supremely pleased that the Giants won.
I also think that the Patriots should have lost their right to play at all after they were caught cheating. Had they won this Super Bowl, I would expect to see an asterisk by their name.
I hate the Patriots, and I have since Oakland was robbed by them after that bullshit call in the playoffs.
sierra tango foxtrot uniform
Favorite sign in the crowd: 18-1.
Favorite ad: etrade baby.
Favorite play: the one when Manning slipped the tackle of every guy in the NE line and flung the ball downfield to Tyree for a helmet assisted catch, of course.
What a game. So happy to see New York pull it out and watch how angry the Pats are.
It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.
I'll have to admit, I was a doubter. Couldn't stand the drill sergeant pose of Tom Coughlin and I was still waiting for Eli Manning to revert to his previous form. I figured New England was good for the victory although I took the points and bet the Pats wouldn't cover the spread. Shows what I know. It also shows why it's always best when they actually go ahead and play the game rather than rely on betting lines or prognostications to determine who ends up with the Lombardi Trophy.
Eli deserved the MVP trophy because he came up big when it absolutely, positively counted for the Giants. Yes, the Giants' defensive squad played phenomenal, but if Manning hadn't taken the team on that final TD drive (and who didn't love that sack avoiding toss to Tyree) the Patriots would be having the parade tomorrow instead of the Giants. One great moment after the game was the shot of Jeff Feagles (the oldest player to play in a Super Bowl) with his family on the field, telling his kids to "take it all in." It was truly a game worthy of the modifier super.
Illegitimi non carborundum.
Well, I guess I'll eat crow - I really thought the Pats would romp - although, I'm glad the Giants won, as it means my Steelers continue to only be challenged by the Cowboys & '49ers for most Super Bowl wins (if the Pats had won it would have given them four, placing them just one behind the three-way tie of the Steelers, Cowboys, and '49ers, which have five each).
I'm also glad because it sort of lets us sweep that whole Patriots cheating thing under the rug. Even if they were cheating, they lost the big one, so in the end it doesn't matter. As long as they keep their collective noses clean from here on out we can forget about it.
Speaking of poor sportsmanship, though - was anyone else bothered that Belichick ran off the field before they ran that final play? I'll grant that the play was really unnecessary, but it still felt like sore-loser syndrome to see him jogging off like that.
Manning Jr. as MVP? I don't know - nobody really stood out, but I might have given it to Steve Smith (who played a hell of a game for a rookie) or just collectively given it to either the defensive line or the offensive line (or both). Manning had all day in the pocket on most plays, even after they'd basically given up on the run in that last scoring drive. Brady, on the other hand, had almost no time at all. Still, it's hard to give it to any one lineman on either side, so I can see why it went to an offensive player - but it seems a little cheap.
Finally, who knew Tom Coughlin had it in him? After he fired his defensive coordinator last year and Tiki Barber aired the team's dirty laundry, it really looked like he was loosing control. Turns out that maybe it really was the defensive coordinator's fault, and also that maybe Tiki (and Shockey) were more the problem than the solution. Who woulda thought? Too bad the NBC broadcasts are done for the season - I would have loved to see Tiki eat crow.
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Losing Sucks
Mon Feb 04, 2008 at 08:50:52 AM EST
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Yeah, it will go down as poor sportsmanship, but I'm not sure the Pats would have gotten any more love by acting classy-- and at least we have something closer to genuine emotion than the veneer. What, the CW about Belichick being a remote, domineering asshole* was going to suddenly reverse course because of one performance after a SB loss? If we want to complain about anything from the Hoody, it's that nobody from the league told him to shape up his PR appearance a couple years ago.
MVP should have gone to Wes Welker, but much like the absurd expectations that make losing the SB worse than not making the playoffs at all~, actually giving the reward to a player on the losing team is out of the question.
Will the Pats eventually win another championship? I wouldn't bet against it. Brady has at least 2-3 more great years ahead of him, and Belichick will be as shrewd as ever. Having a seriously good chance to play for a title every year is a great draw for talent, and a very powerful tool at the bargaining table, so I expect to see this dynasty go on for at least another couple years. No undefeated seasons, though :)
*How do you feel about Bob Knight, for instance? Can you separate the genius coach from the chair throwing asshole? Has Knight's bad behavior even enhanced his persona for some fans? Personally, I'd prefer that both coaches had gotten a good spanking for being such poor role models, but then I'm just one sports fan among millions.
~Hyperbole, but just barely. YMMV.
Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras
Has that ever been done before?
The win by the Giants wasn't much of a surprise to me, I was expecting a low-scoring defensive game. Just not that low scoring. Still, I figured the Pats would have the upper hand, and I intensely dilkaf;oieqwknads.varrgh Eli Manning for being a wimpy whiner when he got drafted by the Chargers. Brady looked fine on his knee, so I believe the Pats were as full-strength as they were going to get.
MVP should have been Strahan or someone else on the defensive line.
Whatever my opinion of Eli, that scramble out of that near-sack and that pass he threw was a thing of beauty.
"Sack. Sack. Sack. Sack. Goddammit. Whoa. Daaaaamn."
For me, this ties with the Rams-Patriots Super Bowl as the most fun to watch. It seems that whenever the underdog wins, the game gets better.
The best Super Bowl, of course, is when the Chargers came within 24 points of upsetting the 49ers. :P
- derumi (del-me)
"Bobby Fischer? Man, that guy is crazy!" - Mike Tyson
