"She gave him the keys. This is a mother. She should have known better."
Well, if she should have known that he shouldn't have been driving by himself, and at night no less, maybe she should have some culpability.
OTOH, I'm not one to talk. My own mom let me start driving her car (she was in it at the time) when I was 15. The legal driving age at the time was 16. Should I have had an accident at the time, I'd say she would have been held responsible.
Once I hit 16 and got my driver's license, I was an asshole. Lot's of street-racing in the late '60s, probably still today. I only had mom's 1960 Corvair, and mostly raced one friend with a Ford Maverick and another with a VW Bug. The friend with his dad's 289 Mustang, and another with his grandmother's 440 Dodge were too much for us. Somehow, I survived, although I did get busted a couple of times. Dad gave me hell when he had to take off work to take me to court. I learned my lesson real fast!
Should my parents have been held financially responsible? No. I had insurance, and it's not cheap when you're 16.
Hormone-laden adolescents just happen, both male and female, in my experience.
there's only one way to find out...
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Re: To What Standard Of Responsibility...
Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 11:28:45 PM EST
5.00 (astute)
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There has to be a place to draw the line. What happens to the parent with an uncontrollable teen with a fuck you attitude who does something just to get the parent fined?
We're such hypocrites about whether or not kids are adults. We want to try them as adults if they commit a crime, but if they don't have any money, we want to sue their parents. If it's my kid who does something wrong, they're a child, but if it's your kid, they're a hardened criminal who should get the death penalty. ;)
I don't know what the rules should be, but we should really decide exactly where we're gonna draw that line before we hand out penalties.
"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."
I have to agree that a parent who gives his non-legal child the keys to the car has to be held responsible in some way for what happens. I am not sure that felony manslaughter is the proper way, though. Liability for damages and second-degree manslaughter might be a better choice.
Just today, my boss told me about how his wife allowed their 14-year-old grandson to drive home from the mall with her. My advice to him was that it was a very bad idea, because giving the boy experience behind the wheel would be a temptation to him to "borrow" the car, no matter how good a kid he is, and it's better not to subject him to it. Of course, the cat is already out of the bag there, so my boss is going to have to be much more careful with the keys for a few years now, especially since Hawaii has recently made getting a driver's license a lot harder for minors.
I think it's a bit hard for him to conceptualize, since he grew up on a farm in Arkansas where they started driving the truck around the fields at 12 or 13. However, he does remember being a hellion at 15 quite well, so that helps.
When I clicked on the articles about the accident ("charged a mother with second degree manslaughter" and "auto accident occurred last September"), the details somehow made the whole story seem quite different to me.
First: it seems that the driver got a phone call asking for a pick-up (remembering my own days of being 14, I can completely see how this would be...I am hanging out with some friends at a movie theatre, things don't work out, so call up the one or two friends who are old enough for a permit or a license and then basically, given that I am hanging out with 3 other friends, peer pressure that person into giving us a ride).
Second: The driver has been charged with vehicular manslaughter.
While the driver's mother might be somewhat negligent, will it really make anything better to doom both mother and son to jail (after all, there was a recent thread about the very larger American penitentiary population)?
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why jail?
Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 02:44:30 PM EST
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Well, the son did kill someone, however accidentally, and the mother did make it possible for the son to do that, by giving him the keys when he was not legally permitted to drive unsupervised. In general, when people do things that are illegal, we inflict legal penalties in order to discourage other people from doing the same thing, as well as to discourage the people who are being penalized from doing the same thing again.
Let us imagine that instead of giving her son the keys to the car, the mother gave him a loaded gun, for which neither he nor she had a permit, and he then took the gun and went out and killed someone for looking at him funny. We could still ask, what good would it do to put either the mother or son in jail? It is not going to bring the murdered person back to life. And the prisons are overcrowded and very expensive. Still, we don't want to give the killer, or any other prospective killers, the idea that they can murder people with impunity. It creates a bad precedent.
The fact that the death was caused accidentally with a car rather than deliberately with a gun makes it a less serious offense, but it is still requires a serious penalty. We could debate whether jail is the right penalty. But it probably is the penalty which would best give pause to other mothers who consider allowing their children who are just learning how to drive, to do so illegally without supervision.
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Re: why jail?
Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 08:52:51 PM EST
5.00 (astute)
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Let us imagine that instead of giving her son the keys to the car, the mother gave him a loaded gun, for which neither he nor she had a permit, and he then took the gun and went out and killed someone for looking at him funny.
This is a very different scenario because not only is a gun a weapon but the possession of a gun that is carried on the person and also discharged would automatically imply intent. The intent to murder is not as often charged in car accidents, even in those that involve clear DUI.
But it probably is the penalty which would best give pause to other mothers who consider allowing their children who are just learning how to drive, to do so illegally without supervision.
I am personally not a fan of the court making "an example" of an individual as a warning to society. Instead, I think the mother should get a lesser charge.
Looking at the articles along with the sub made a difference in my thinking because I could understand the mother of the victim thinking that someone was at fault (even though why there is so much of this thinking these days is not that clear to me...after all, there are also accidents that happen that could not have been prevented and where there might be no one to blame. But I might be saying this as someone who has never lost anyone to an accident).
It seems, to me at least, that a vehicular homicide charge for the young driver is justice enough. And I would think that most parents would be deterred from giving the keys unthinkingly to their permit-holding child by realizing that their child could be charged with vehicular homicide and spend most of their youth in jail.