Diary

El futuro

Steve Urkel.

Posted to Diary on Mon Mar 24, 2008 at 01:15:30 PM EST. RSS.

"On the stairs I smoke a cigarette alone. Mexican kids are shooting fireworks below. Hey baby, it's the Fourth of July."

"The number of Hispanics in the United States will triple by 2050 and represent nearly 30 percent of the population if current trends continue, according to a report released yesterday.

The study by the nonpartisan, Washington-based Pew Research Center also found that nearly one in five Americans will be foreign-born in 2050, compared with about one in eight today..." - U.S. Latino Population Projected To Soar.

"Generations of Exclusion measures Mexican American integration across a wide number of dimensions: education, English and Spanish language use, socioeconomic status, intermarriage, residential segregation, ethnic identity, and political participation. The study contains some encouraging findings, but many more that are troubling. Linguistically, Mexican Americans assimilate into mainstream America quite well--by the second generation, nearly all Mexican Americans achieve English proficiency. In many domains, however, the Mexican American story doesn't fit with traditional models of assimilation. The majority of fourth generation Mexican Americans continue to live in Hispanic neighborhoods, marry other Hispanics, and think of themselves as Mexican. And while Mexican Americans make financial strides from the first to the second generation, economic progress halts at the second generation, and poverty rates remain high for later generations. Similarly, educational attainment peaks among second generation children of immigrants, but declines for the third and fourth generations." - Generations of Exclusion: Mexican Americans, Assimilation, and Race.

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Re: El futuro

tomc.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 04:41:21 PM EST

none

So what's yer point, Steve?

FWIW, last year I did some research into Hispanics in the US, and found out that the majority of those in the US who identify themselves as Hispanic are not only fluent in English, but they do not know how to speak Spanish.

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Re: El futuro

Steve Urkel.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:16:22 PM EST

none

A future where 30% of the population has high poverty rates, low edcuational attainment, lives in ethnic enclaves and considers itself more Mexican than American seems like something that should be discussed.  

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Friggin' Micks

Lou.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 09:31:04 PM EST

none

Or in other words...

A future where 30% of the population has high poverty rates, low edcuational attainment, lives in ethnic enclaves and considers itself more Irish* than American

Of course, that changed over time...I understand one Irish feller even got to be President of the United States.  Funny how things change over time, eh?

*Or Italian...or Jewish...or Russian...or Chinese...

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Friggin' Micks

JimmyHavok.

Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 11:46:56 PM EST

5.00

Those people don't have brown skin, so Gordon doesn't hate them.

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Re: Not funny at all

Steve Urkel.

Tue Mar 25, 2008 at 10:05:05 PM EST

none

In 2000 only about 11% of the US population was of Irish descent.

"Funny how things change over time"

Things aren't changing over time for Mexican immigrants. As that study points out:

"economic progress halts at the second generation, and poverty rates remain high for later generations. Similarly, educational attainment peaks among second generation children of immigrants, but declines for the third and fourth generations."

 

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Re: Not funny at all

Lou.

Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:10:10 PM EST

none

I wasn't talking about the Irish population is 2000.  I was referring to the Irish populations in the 1800s.  Many people...maybe even your great-grandfather grieved over how the Irish were going to destroy America.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Not funny at all

Steve Urkel.

Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:32:58 PM EST

none

It's not a good comparison. From your link:

"It is estimated that as many as 4.5 million Irish arrived in America between 1820 and 1930."

Pretend instead of arriving over a period of 110 years, they all arrived at once, in 1930. That would have made them only about 3% of the population in 1930. That's a lower percentage of the population than the number of illegal aliens alone (most of whom are from Mexico) are right now.

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Re: Not funny at all

Lou.

Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 04:04:41 PM EST

none

All we're talking about is degree.  The percentages, the ethnic groups, and the economic conditions are all different now.  

The only thing that hasn't changed is the nativist claptrap.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Not funny at all

Steve Urkel.

Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 06:16:47 PM EST

none

Nativist claptrap? The authors of Generations of Exclusion, Edward E. Telles and Vilma Ortiz, are liberal sociology professors at UCLA.

I agree that conditions are different now. There's less pressure to assimilate, our economy has shifted away from the types of jobs uneducated and low skilled workers did in the past,  and as noted above the immigrants are a greater percentage of the population.

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Re: El futuro

tomc.

Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 02:52:55 PM EST

none

From the first article:
"At a news conference to announce the report yesterday, co-authors D'Vera Cohn and Jeffrey S. Passel declined to draw policy conclusions. They also noted that even if their projections are accurate, the social implications may be different by 2050: Given the high rate of intermarriage between Latinos and members of other ethnic groups, many descendants of today's Latinos may not even identify themselves as such."

From the book review in the 2nd link:
"Telles and Ortiz identify institutional barriers as a major source of Mexican American disadvantage. Chronic under-funding in school systems predominately serving Mexican Americans severely restrains progress. Persistent discrimination, punitive immigration policies, and reliance on cheap Mexican labor in the southwestern states all make integration more difficult. The authors call for providing Mexican American children with the educational opportunities that European immigrants in previous generations enjoyed. The Mexican American trajectory is distinct--but so is the extent to which this group has been excluded from the American mainstream."

I try to read at least the first two paragraphs of an article before imagining a dystopia.

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Re: El futuro

Steve Urkel.

Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 03:18:45 PM EST

none

It's not surprising a pair of liberals call for more "educational opportunities". That's the solution for everything, isn't it? But the reality is there's no shortage of educational opportunities now, and as their own studies show the availability of education hasn't been and isn't now being taken advantage of, and no one is able to explain what changes could be in education that would result in significant improvements.  Already more money is spent now to educate Mexican immigrants and their children than was ever spent on "European immigrants in previous generations". And with the number of low-educated, low skill Americans increasing you have fewer Americans able and willing to support raising them up.

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Re: El futuro

thefadd.

Wed Mar 26, 2008 at 08:36:02 PM EST

none

I just came from Cabo San Lucas. Currently, that is in Mexico. However, we found it (much to our horror) more American than Los Angeles. Perhaps to combat the race (baiting) we ought to just annex Mexico in order to ensure our continued Americanism.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: El futuro

Steve Urkel.

Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 01:28:19 PM EST

none

"I just came from Cabo San Lucas"

We know. We know.

How does the sun look? I haven't seen it for song long I've forgotten.

 

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What I Don't Get.

TonedEff.

Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 10:16:38 AM EST

none

Why anyone goes to a foreign resort which markets itself heavily to Americans and expects the place to be anything but an authentic American tourist trap.  You found (much to your horror) that it was more American than LA.  Yet, in another thread you're complaining that your favorite sports bar was closed down.  How many cantinas del deporte are there in Mexico?  I mean as an authentic Mexican cultural thing.

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Re: What I Don't Get.

thefadd.

Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 01:52:28 PM EST

none

No, I certainly get what you're saying and I can't really say I'm shocked. Cabo has been an american west coast haunt for years and I've never been under the impression that it was authentic mexicana in anyway. But it was authentic baja which for probably fifty years has been a wild mix of the american and mexican californias. In the last five years, the Mexican federal government has poured millions of development dollars into five specific coastal markets to increase tourism dollars. The result has been a much higher profile for the area...instead of being sort of the american west coast's little secret, it now has a broader "appeal."

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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