SciTech

How Young Is Too Young?

port1080.

Posted to SciTech on Thu Mar 27, 2008 at 09:15:06 PM EST (promoted by 1fastdog). RSS.

A recently concluded Norwegian study has determined that premature babies are significantly more likely than their full term brethren to develop health complications later in life. They were substantially more likely to die during later childhood, and also were much more frequently found to be infertile when they later tried to have children themselves.

Most disturbingly, according to the article:

New drugs and therapies first used widely in the 1990s now save smaller and sicker babies. So the babies in the study may have been healthier, on average, than children born premature in recent years, experts said.

"Are we improving their survival but at the expense of significant problems down the road?" asked study leader Dr. Geeta Swamy of Duke University Medical Center.

The results of the study essentially lead us to consider the inverse of therapeutic abortion and infanticide. While there have been many debates over the ethics of aborting late term babies who are found to have significant genetic defects which would lead to a severe degradation of their quality of life (and the Dutch have even considered allowing infanticide in the most extreme cases), there has been less consideration of the other side of the coin - to what extreme measures should we go to save a premature infant's life, especially now that we know this may lead to substantial difficulties down the road? Which is more important, the infant's absolute right to live, or its right to an acceptable quality of life?

Tags: written by Port1080, edited by 1fastdog, science, premature birth, abortion, infanticide (all tags)

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4

a premature birth and life afterwards

JimmyHavok.

Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 08:26:33 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Speaking from experience: my little brother was premature, and while he is not stupid by a long shot, he is the least intellectually capable member of our family, about 20 IQ points behind the rest of us.  He has had a hard life from birth, including needing surgery mere weeks after birth, and now lives a marginal existence of debilitating pain, multiple addictions (tv, alcohol, opiates) and unskilled labor.  I really think that all of his problems, including the workplace injury that led to his chronic pain, can be laid to his premature birth.

He's my little brother and I love him, but I wonder if all the unpleasantness of his life, from being bullied as a child to his current unhappy lot is worth it to him.  He's always in such a fog now that even the strengths that he does have (he has very high social skills) aren't available to him.  His entire life has been one of struggle without accomplishment, pushing a rock that's too big for him up a hill without a top.  

I got a lot out of his presence in our family, ranging from having a little brother who was essentially a very  intelligent pet, to getting to be the avenging angel who hunted down the bullies who hurt him (although that never stopped them from doing it again), to having him as a social foil when we worked together in a blue-collar setting, but looking at his life through the perspective of my gain is simply wrong.  The same goes for the happiness my mother got from having him as a child.

It's impossible to add up the positives and negatives of his whole life, since they are impossible to measure, but I know he isn't happy now, and the chances that things will get better for him are minuscule. I can't help thinking that saving his life when he was born could be considered an injury to him, although there was no way to know how it would turn out at the time, and so there's no way that any blame could attached to it.

If you think that life should be struggle, then his life was worth it, even though he's gotten nothing out of his struggle except a ramshackle shack in the woods and a prescription for painkillers.  But if you think life should be struggle, then we should cripple every child at birth in order to make their lives worth living.  I look at life from a hedonistic perspective, and I have a hard time seeing everything he's been through as having been worth it.

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Re: a premature birth and life afterwards

Steve Urkel.

Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 10:42:32 PM EST

2.00 (funny, obnoxious)

So he has an IQ of 50? That is sad.

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Re: a premature birth and life afterwards

port1080.

Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 12:56:23 PM EST

none

I'm sorry to hear about your brother, but thank you for sharing that story. That's exactly the kind of situation I had in mind when I wrote this story up. It's something I struggle with a lot - I'm not a big fan of the idea of suicide or euthanasia, for example, but on the other hand I hate to think of people being stuck in an awful life that they don't want to live. It may seem a little perverse, but I have more trouble with the notion of allowing an adult to decide to kill him/her self than I do with the idea of not taking heroic measures to save a newborn infant, or perhaps even with therapeutic infant...

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Re: a premature birth and life afterwards

port1080.

Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 01:07:07 PM EST

none

therapeutic infant... That should be "therapeutic infant euthanasia"

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Re: a premature birth and life afterwards

postillion.

Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:18:21 PM EST

none

I appreciate what you and Jimmy are saying, but how does one assess these things?

I have a friend who was born pre-mature.  He often talked about how he was born so early that he fit into his father's palm when he was born.  But he did brilliantly in school and went on to do a PhD in history.  

It's also an ethical question in regards to children with Downs Syndrome and other handicaps.  Martha Nussbaum has written about the ethical questions involved in these sorts of questions and how human life is about creating the environments that allows each human being to live fully to their potential, whether they are handicapped, have Downs Syndrome or do not have handicaps.  There's a deep sense of humanity in coming up with solutions for a better environment for living for everybody.

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Re: a premature birth and life afterwards

JimmyHavok.

Sun Mar 30, 2008 at 10:07:06 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

There's no way anyone could have known what sort of life my brother would have, so no one could have made an informed decision about whether he should live or die.  The efforts made on his behalf weren't especially heroic, they didn't have the kind of tech we have today back in 1959.

To a certain extent, I wonder if heroic efforts to save a handicapped baby are more about the satisfaction of the people making those efforts than about the quality of life the baby will have.

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Re: a premature birth and life

postillion.

Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 12:04:32 AM EST

none

I wonder if heroic efforts to save a handicapped baby are more about the satisfaction of the people making those efforts than about the quality of life the baby will have.

This is where I think the ethical questions become very hazy. Who is the one to judge what is the right quality of life?

I think euthanasia decisions made by adults for themselves through living wills is a different story since they are assessing how they do not want to live based on their experience of life.

However, can any of us who do not have Downs Syndrome or other handicaps know what the quality and value of life is for those who are handicapped or mentally slower?

Is it that those who are mentally slower cannot appreciate life or that society makes life harder for them?  

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Re: a premature birth and life

thefadd.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 08:39:45 PM EST

3.00 (interesting)

Leave it up to the parents. If you want to go down the ethical question path, you can go from saving babies to birth control being an afront to god to masturbation being the murderous spilling of seed. Family planning consists of parents electing how many children they can reasonably be held responsible for. If they want two, why shouldn't they be allowed to choose the best two? China is universally condemned for preventing parents from having more than one child. I don't think anyone is going to argue that people should be forced to have more children if they don't want to. So once you've made the decision to have a specific number, you've spiritually murdered the rest.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: a premature birth and life

JimmyHavok.

Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 12:43:52 AM EST

none

or that society makes life harder for them?

That's like asking "Does gravity make life harder for them?"  "Society" is a major component of the whole world that we are flung into when we are born.  Each of us can do our part to create society as we would like it to be, but it is the sum of everyone acting together in the circles of association that surround us.  We can think of it as a slightly malleable object that we have to deal with as best we can.

Everyone appreciates life in a different way, and it can't be measured.  However, we can see suffering, even if we can't measure it, and at some point, the odds that a child will suffer beyond what is reasonable to expect have to be taken into account.

If a Downs Syndrome child has a loving family with the resources to protect him throughout his life, there's no reason to end his life.  But if he's born into a dysfunctional family, or one with few resources to devote to his care, it might be kinder not to expend a lot of effort to keep him alive.  That's a judgment call that only the people who know the situation are in a position to make.  But given the amount of effort it takes to keep a Downs Syndrome child healthy, I suspect that only those who are born into loving families live very long, and it is a mercy for those who don't get the support they need when they do die.

When it comes to heroic efforts, as the writeup points out, often the results are less than satisfactory, because of the physical problems that make heroic efforts necessary.

New Yorker had an article recently about people who have Lesch-Nyhan Syndrome which causes them to mutilate themselves, biting their own lips and fingers off.  One sufferer had gouged out one of his eyes with a spoon.  The will to live is so strong that they endure the suffering they cannot help inflicting on themselves, but I can't help but think that they are an example of people who simply would be much better off if they were smothered at birth.

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Re: a premature birth and life

postillion.

Mon Mar 31, 2008 at 09:44:40 PM EST

none

Gravity is a scientific fact whereas society is something that can be affected through politics and ideas.  This is why I am interested in Martha Nussbaum's approach towards human life.

Ultimately, I don't think that doctors should be put in a position to decide which life should be saved and which life should not.  It goes against the Hippocratic oath.

If we as a society were to legally countenance this question, who would make the decision and on what basis?  Should it be the parents? And on what grounds could they justify allowing a premature infant to die?  If it were economic, what would that say about our society and valuation of life based on wealth or lack of wealth?

Unlike many people on this board, I am not a big believer in technology as progress.    Instead, I think progress is about people within a society becoming more tolerant and compassionate towards each other.  It wasn't so long ago that people with mental illnesses were shunned and locked up in asylums for life, depriving them of a chance to become productive members of society.  While medicine hasn't found a cure for all mental illnesses (although many people have been helped or their conditions bettered), society as a whole in the U.S. has learned to be a little more open and tolerant about mental illnesses.  

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Re: a premature birth and life

JimmyHavok.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:06:21 AM EST

none

Society is just as much a physical fact as gravity, although, as I pointed out, we do have some ability to alter it.  Society consists of the interactions of people, and people are physical objects.

I would say that a child's parents have the responsibility to decide whether it should live or not, although in certain extreme cases, simple compassion ought to guide the hands of medical professionals.

Progress is a subjective thing.  Some people consider the atom bomb to be progress, some do not, there's really no way to establish that outside of the value system of the individual.  However, I do agree with your assessment of what progress consists of.  Technological progress has, for the most part, enabled most of our social progress, since social progress is built on the foundation of plenty we have achieved through technological progress.

Nussbaum is pretty interesting...looking at the list of capabilities, I'd say that there are many people who are genetically human who don't have some of those capabilities.  She seems to be in the pragmatist camp of Richard Rorty.  I'm going to have to read more.

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Re: a premature birth and life

postillion.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:23:23 AM EST

none

Thanks for the Richard Rorty link.  I will add one of his books to my ever growing stack of books by the bed.

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Re: a premature birth and life afterwards

ms sue.

Sat Mar 29, 2008 at 09:27:26 PM EST

none

I have a friend who was born pre-mature.  He often talked about how he was born so early that he fit into his father's palm when he was born.  But he did brilliantly in school and went on to do a PhD in history.  

A childhood friend of mine was, I believe, one of the smallest babies to have survived at that time. She's now a California Superior Court judge.

1

Re: How Young Is Too Young?

skeptic.

Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 09:16:22 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

If we are pro-choice, and we believe that a woman has a right to choose whether she wishes to carry a pregnancy through to term or not, then the right to have an abortion also includes the right not to have an abortion if that is the choice the woman wants to make.  While the life of a premature baby may have subsequent medical problems, that hardly means that this prematurely born person will not have a worthwhile life or will not be happy to be alive.  Lots of people have medical problems and still enjoy their lives, and still contribute in some meaningful way to the lives of others.

If we as a species are able to make it through the terrible crises that we are facing in the 21st century, we will continue our technological progress.  This will include better treatment for premature babies.  Medical technology has already advanced to the point of being able to keep babies alive who in previous decades  would not have been able to survive.  The final development for the preservation of premature babies would be the artificial womb, which if truly perfected would be able to gestate any fetus or embryo, regardless of its stage of development, leading to a normal live quasi-birth (or decanting) as a normal baby.

The artificial womb would be a tremendously useful device, not just to assist with premature babies.  Pregnancy and childbirth are ordeals that most women would rather avoid, if motherhood could be achieved by easier means.  I could therefore foresee a time when all pregnancies would take place in artificial wombs, and no baby would be born prematurely since the pregnancy would be perfectly controlled through this advanced medical technology.

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Re: How Young Is Too Young?

postillion.

Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:29:39 AM EST

none

The artificial womb would be a tremendously useful device, not just to assist with premature babies.  Pregnancy and childbirth are ordeals that most women would rather avoid, if motherhood could be achieved by easier means.  I could therefore foresee a time when all pregnancies would take place in artificial wombs, and no baby would be born prematurely since the pregnancy would be perfectly controlled through this advanced medical technology.

While the artificial womb is an intriguing idea, and one that sounds useful for premature infants, in regards to healthy pregnancies, I disagree with using any artificial device where nature has already provided one.  

Along with new technologies come side-effects, many of which are not seen immediately.  While the hypothetical artificial womb could save the lives of many premature babies and would be a vital aspect of helping such lives, could it possibly have an adverse side-effect on healthy babies?

One analogy would be baby formula.  While it's convenient for mothers to use, and often necessary in cases where mothers become sick, it's also now seen as not being as beneficial as the mother's own natural milk which help babies build up resistance to infection and also seems to keep the babies from becoming obese or developing diabetes.  Many woman are choosing to breast feed as much as possible these days.  However, there are still many women who can breast feed but choose the convenience of baby formula.

Technology is great.  But I would say where Nature is already working well, Technology has yet to beat out Nature.

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the artificial womb

skeptic.

Fri Mar 28, 2008 at 10:56:31 AM EST

none

I was supposing that the technology of the artificial womb is perfected.  Of course that would be very difficult.  Quite possibly, we will first develop an artificial womb which is distinctly inferior to a biological womb, but which would still be useful for seriously premature babies, being an advance over a mere incubation box.

The fact that infant formula is known to be inferior to mother's breast milk does not mean that it would necessarily be impossible to create an infant formula that is as good as (or conceivably, even better than) mother's breast milk, it just means that it hasn't been done yet.  No one has as yet gone to the trouble of identifying every chemical that is present in normal breast milk, and of then putting together an artificial version in which all the same chemicals are also present.  There is no reason why that couldn't be done, it just hasn't been done because it would be very expensive and people are still buying the cheaper, inferior version of baby formula, or breast feeding if they are not satisfied with baby formula.

Similarly, if we can identify every chemical that is present in the blood of a pregnant woman, we could, with enough R&D, create an artificial version that is exactly equivalent (or possibly even superior), and if we can also build an interface mechanism that will work the same way a placenta does, to connect the fetal blood system to the artificial blood supply, that solves the basic technical problem (the problem of floating the embryo or fetus in an equivalent to amniotic fluid is relatively trivial, we could do that easily).  This is not like inventing such things as faster than light travel, time travel into the past, or anti-gravity, all of which are science fictional dreams which are probably going to remain impossible despite any amount of research that we may do.  The artificial womb is a perfectly reasonable technology to invent.

It is, of course, possible that there will be some technical flaw in the artificial womb which will not be immediately apparent but which will be noticed years later when the babies of such devices grow up, and demonstrate some unusual pathology which is traced back to their artificial gestation.  But again, even if that should occur, there is no reason to think that the problem could not be figured out and fixed.  Maybe the fetus needs to hear a mother's heartbeat.  If so, that is easily arranged by means of a recording.  I don't see any insoluble problems here.

Of course, one never knows how difficult a given research project is, until one actually does it.  The development of nuclear fusion power is a good example.  I well recall that in the 1960's it was confidently predicted by all experts that nuclear fusion would become a viable commercial power source in a matter of decades, certainly before the year 2000.  And of course, that didn't happen, even though many billions of dollars were spent on fusion research (research which remains ongoing to this day).  This proved to be a harder problem than we expected.  Perhaps the artificial womb will also prove to be a more difficult technical problem than I have anticipated.  Even so, if we do enough research, the problem will be solved, inevitably.

Medically speaking we know perfectly well that both pregnancy and childbirth carry very serious medical risks to the mother, aside from presenting tremendous discomfort, pain, and inconvenience in various different ways.  It seems obvious that if we can perfect an artificial womb, the medical advantage for the  mother is enormous.  Babies will also benefit since the pregnancy will be better controlled, and such problems as premature birth would never occur.

We could still ask how expensive such artificial wombs would turn out to be.  Even if they are medically desirable, that doesn't necessarily mean that they would be affordable for the average mother.  But that is a separate issue, and it is too soon to worry about it, since we do not as yet even know what such devices would actually cost.  And we also do not know how affluent society in general would be, by the time such devices are perfected.

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