Business

Foreclosed? Get Paid Not to Ruin Your House!

Mary Jo Kopechne.

Posted to Business on Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:45:03 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

With millions of people being foreclosed and even renters who haven't missed a payment being unexpectedly evicted due to their landlords defaulting, frustrations are rising and tempers flaring.  In Las Vegas, banks are paying the former owners hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars to try and curb the destruction of foreclosed homes.

Residents are trashing "their" houses in creative ways- pouring paint or motor oil on the carpets, stripping out appliances and light fixtures, and most sadly, locking their pets inside when they move out to add to the mess (until they starve to death, that is).  Should banks be pressing vandalism charges?

Tags: edited by port1080, written by Mary Jo Kopechne, mortgages, forclosure, housing crisis (all tags)

This story: 24 comments (3 from subqueue)
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1

Re: Foreclosed? Get Paid Not to Ruin Your House!

port1080.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 06:51:28 AM EST

5.00

Banks should absolutely be pressing charges - these people are being dicks, pure and simple. They got into a mess they can't get out of, and instead of manning up and dealing with it, they're acting like purile infants. This is the kind of thing I'd expect college frat boys being evicted from their apartment to do, not something I would expect to see from grown adults. And the people who are leaving their pets behind to die should absolutely have animal cruelty charges pressed against them. If these people need housing so badly, I'm sure the state can find a place for them in jail. Let some honest pot-smokers out and put these assholes in.

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^ 1

One assumes that the vandalism won't be forgotten.

MayorBob.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 08:11:06 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

The story, however seems to be that the bank is taking the prudential step of spending up to $1,000 to get the people who are in trouble to move out early.  Their debt isn't being forgiven and they face a stark future with no place of permanent residence, ruined credit, and failed dreams.  It's easy to point the finger of blame at people who get caught up in messes like this and perhaps they should have more seriously pondered whether to jump for that ARM or sub-prime mortgage.  I'm thankful I've never found myself in similar straits.  But how many of us would be in similar circumstances if, say your job fired you or laid you off?  How many of us live one or two pay checks away from not being able to keep up with our mortgages?

It seems that the federal government has no problem in acting quickly to grease the skids lubricating the Merrill Lynch purchase of Bear Stearns.  And Henry Paulson churned out a whole new set of rules giving the Fed more authority to act quickly the next time financial companies decided there was a get rich quick scheme open to them that was going to wreck the economy.  But, in spite of what Bush, Paulson et al have said about getting help to those set to lose their houses and futures to the sub prime shell game, things look bleak.  As we speak Congress is set to debate over whether to shovel $400 billion towards home owners in distress.  True to form, the banking industry wankers are saying that'll be a bit too late for most of them which, I guess, translates to "why waste it on them; feather our beds a bit more."

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: One assumes that the vandalism won't be forgot

postillion.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 12:10:11 AM EST

none

Paul Krugman has a very interesting piece where he argues that Paulson's plan is being pushed by the Bush administration to stall the plan by the Democrats to help homeowners.

And he could well be right given that the Republicans so far haven't voiced much interest in the plight of the homeowners.

Given that so much of our money is being used by the Feds to bail out Bear Stearns as a way of saving Wall Street, I also think that some of the money needs to be used to bail out homeowners.  With so many homeowners now pushed out of homes without credit and possibly without any savings, it is a problem that needs to be addressed on a national level.  A lot of people whose homes have been foreclosed are families, and it would be pretty bleak to see that many families living in homeless shelters. Gives me the Depression Era feeling.  

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Re: One assumes that the vandalism won't be forgot

pO157.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 02:57:57 PM EST

none

Why do we need to bail anybody out?

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^ 18

Re: One assumes that the vandalism won't be forgot

postillion.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:23:48 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

In regards to bailing out Bear Stearns (although maybe it shouldn't be called a bail out for Bear Stearns since it can be made said the people at Bear Stearns lost), it was done to prevent a run on other banks and investment houses in the U.S.  A run on multiple banks and investment houses would mean the collapse of these institutions and a collapse of dollar.

In regards to bailing out homeowners, I would like to see something being done for them because the crisis is at a large enough level in the numbers of people affected that I think it will effect America on a national level.  When the number of people who are poor rise, it means worse crime rates. And my personal opinion is that society as a whole is harmed when there are more poor people who are angry about not able to partake in economic opportunities.  It's a lessening of human potential, in my own opinion.

One of the things I was talking about with a friend in regards to this whole housing crisis is why aren't banks renegotiating mortgages for people who might still be able to pay their mortgages if they hadn't defaulted once and fallen into high interest rates?

Has anyone heard of any banks doing that?

The other question I wondered about is why banks aren't renting out the homes they can't sell.  Is there some technicality against that?  I assume that the rental market will get tighter as more people have the bank foreclose on them.

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Re: Foreclosed? Get Paid Not to Ruin Your House!

skeeter1.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 11:37:40 AM EST

none

"They got into a mess they can't get out of, and instead of manning up and dealing with it, they're acting like purile infants."

I witnessed that happen right across the street from me.  The guy who lived there was laid off from the Ford plant, and the bank foreclosed on his house.  He was bi-polar, and when he was in a bad mood, he was in a BAD mood.  There have been contractors there for two months now replacing drywall and doors, trying to get the place saleable again.  

I feel sorry that he lost his job, but there's no excuse for ruining the house.  I do not, however, miss him, and I'm sure no one else around here does, either.  He was a first-class nut job.  

there's only one way to find out...

17

...assuming the banks "own" the house

logan.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 12:32:39 AM EST

5.00 (informative, informative, informative)

The latest trend among banks is to keep foreclosed properties in a limbo state. Here's how it works: the bank forecloses on the property but doesn't actually take the title to the house so they don't have to pay property taxes. It works out great for the banks: they get to suck every dollar they can out of the former owner, take whatever tax deduction they can from the capital loss, and resell the property when the time is right. If the time isn't right now, they can just wait it out. Maybe Walmart will want to buy the land, maybe the economy will improve, or maybe they can just sit  on the property indefinitely. In areas where foreclosure is more prevalent the result is neighborhoods dominated by abandoned houses. We all know the chain of events from there: unmaintained houses are vandalized, the value of other properties declines, crime rises, and the city has another slum. As long as the bank doesn't accept the title they aren't legally responsible so they don't have to maintain the property, insure it, or pay taxes on it. Everybody wins! And by "everybody", I mean the banks.

-=Logan
Research, facts, a Republican needs not these things.

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Re:assuming the banks own the house

thefadd.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 05:19:50 PM EST

none

I've heard reports of neighborhood associations banding together to purchase empty houses/bail out their neighbors simply so that their home values won't depreciate so far.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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^ 17

Anyone want to buy a house?

Shy Elf.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 06:46:52 PM EST

none

Your information is seriously garbled, as is the news story you took it from.  Here's a better explanation.

Either you have title to the property or you don't.  If you don't have the title you can't ever sell it later.  No, this is not good for the bank, since they lose all of their outstanding loan balance.

What it is about is usually the bank saying that they will foreclose in order to get paid and never actually doing it, because they don't see the auction results as being worth the legal fees of foreclosure.  Legally, the house still belongs to the borrower, who has usually moved away, assuming his house will be taken by foreclosure.

Foreclosure doesn't normally ever transfer the title to the bank.  What happens is that the property is put up for cash auction (where the bank can usually bid, but is not obligated to).  If the amount raised is less than the mortgage, the bank takes all of it, otherwise the borrower gets the remainder.  The other way this process could fail, I suppose, is if the nobody bids at all and the lender refuses to take title.

In any case, that either of these things happen at all is an indication that property prices are in some cases going for pennies on the dollar.

Anyone want to move in next door to PO157?  You can probably get a house really, really cheaply.

In any case, what do people think, that with our growing immigrant population nobody's ever going to build houses again?  Everyone is planning on living in teepees?  With housing prices dropping below what is needed to build new housing in most areas, it's a sure thing that prices will rebound somewhat from current levels.

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Re: Anyone want to buy a house?

thefadd.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 09:02:40 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

With housing prices dropping below what is needed to build new housing in most areas, it's a sure thing that prices will rebound somewhat from current levels.

But with so many empty houses currently, there's no need to build new homes--which is part of what's so infuriating about Bush's continual insistence on addressing this issue from a trickle down perspective. Now he wants to make a $7k tax rebate for people who buy new homes and prop up home builders. I know everyone loves to look at new home sales as the standard bearer of the economic outlook but with so many empty and soon to be empty homes, it makes little economic sense unless your goal is to continue to drive down existing home values.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Anyone want to buy a house?

postillion.

Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 01:27:49 AM EST

none

it's a sure thing that prices will rebound somewhat from current levels.

I've been seeing speculations saying perhaps another 2 years of a high rate of foreclosures before the housing market starts to recover.

In any case, what do people think, that with our growing immigrant population nobody's ever going to build houses again?

My understanding is that immigrants are among the hardest hit by foreclosures right now, that many of them bought homes on subprime mortgages.  Additionally, they currently have a higher rate of unemployment than the average for the nation.    

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Re: Foreclosed? Get Paid Not to Ruin Your House!

sad in DC.

Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 09:49:42 AM EST

5.00 (informative)

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I lost my home to foreclosure.  I tried several times unsuccessfully to work with my lender and I was denied.

Yes, I was angry and I was hurt but I left that house in wonderful shape.  I can not even contemplate ruining a home for the next person.  It isn't their fault that I had bad circumstances!

Yes, I felt like white trash, yes I cried a lot, etc, etc.  But I never even contemplating trashing the house or property.  

6

Re: Foreclosed? Get Paid Not to Ruin Your House!

ivyafire.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:42:13 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Does a home foreclosure work like a car repo?

If they repo your car and sell it for less than you owe, they are still going to come after you for the difference.

Wouldn't it work the same way with a foreclosed house?  If so, trashing it would cost you in the long run, wouldn't it?

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

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^ 6

Similar

Lou.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:40:24 PM EST

5.00 (funny, funny, funny)

Does a home foreclosure work like a car repo?

It is similar...except you need a really powerful tow truck.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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^ 6

Re: Foreclosed? Get Paid Not to Ruin Your House!

joshv.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 01:42:53 PM EST

none

It varies based on jurisdiction:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortgage_loan#Foreclosure_and_non-recourse_lending .  Until recently, even if you had the benefit of a friendly jurisdiction, you had to pay taxes on the difference between the outstanding loan amount and the foreclosure sale price.  It was essentially taxed as a gift.

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Re: Foreclosed? Get Paid Not to Ruin Your House!

Shy Elf.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 03:06:15 PM EST

none

Apparently they can generally only get the house if it's a non-judicial foreclosure.  Laws vary by state as to whether that is generally the case or not.  I can't seem to find anything preventing a mortgage company from claiming fraudulent fees and then using non-judicial foreclosure on houses not in legal default and absconding with the money.

2

Re: Foreclosed? Get Paid Not to Ruin Your House!

joshv.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 07:43:58 AM EST

none

I think the problem is that the banks are so swamped with foreclosures they don't have time to press charges.  

I am not sure why people are trashing their houses at the expense of the banks.  They should be thanking these idiotic banks.  Most of these folks got to live in a house that a decade ago would have been far beyond their reach.  They put no money down, and paid about half of the monthly payment that would have been required for the size of the mortgage in more sane underwriting regimes.  Basically they rented a luxury home for a few years at a dirt cheap price, and are now getting away scott-free because they had no skin in the game.  Sounds like a good deal to me.  

But I guess the realization that you aren't actually rich can be a little tought to deal with.  Why not take it out on the granite countertops?

Oh, and welcome Mary Jo.

5

The Renters, on the other hand...

logan.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 12:41:27 PM EST

none

I can totally see a renter's point. They paid their rent on time, fulfilled their end of the bargain, and out of the blue they get evicted because the landlord got in over their head. The tenant would have paid a security/cleaning deposit which they have no hope of getting back. That money is held in trust by the landlord (and earning interest) to pay for any damage or wear-and-tear on the rental property. Since the landlord is (presumably) broke the tenant has no hope of getting their deposit back no matter what condition the property is in, their money is just gone. If you add in the hassle and expense of having to move on short notice because of the landlord's mismanagement, I can see how a renter would want to take a little revenge. And, if you think about it, if the landlord was so overextended that they got their rental property foreclosed upon even with a steady stream of rental income, they probably weren't shelling out a lot of cash for maintenance. How would you feel?

-=Logan
Research, facts, a Republican needs not these things.

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^ 5

Re: The Renters, on the other hand...

huxrules.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 04:01:03 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

I always found it stupid that investors would come to a town -buy a property and then lease it for less than their mortgage payments. It happens all the time.  Perhaps now renters should ask their landlords - "you going to be able to pay the bills right?"

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Re: The Renters, on the other hand...

MayorBob.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 05:29:35 PM EST

4.00 (astute)

Could possibily be a way of reducing their overall tax burden.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: The Renters, on the other hand...

port1080.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 04:18:05 PM EST

none

Well, there's some logic to it (as long as it's reasonable mortgage, anyway).  Let's say your mortgage amount is $3000 a month and you rent the house out for $1500 a month.  If you were buying the property to either use as an investment or as a vacation home for later in life, and you could have afforded to pay the $3000 mortgage anyway, if you get $1500 in rent then that's $1500 a month you can use to pay down the mortgage early.

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^ 12

Re: The Renters, on the other hand...

JimmyHavok.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:20:05 PM EST

none

Not to mention, rents will gradually rise over the life of the property, whereas the mortgage will not.  For example, my parents took out an incredibly high mortgage on our home, one that they could barely handle, back in the '60s.  By the time the mortgage was up, it was trivial: $100/month.

The hyper-inflation of the '70s made the relative cost of the mortgage go down extraordinarily quickly, but the general principle still applies.

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Re: The Renters, on the other hand...

joshv.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 08:21:50 AM EST

none

Perhaps now renters should ask their landlords - "you going to be able to pay the bills right?"

Oh yeah definitely.  If I were renting a home or condo these days, I'd ask the owner when they purchased the property.  If in the last 5-7 years, I'd ask to know the purchase price, and the monthly mortgage payment/taxes/assessment.  If the difference between their total monthly cost and the rent is more than a few hundred dollars a month, it's simply not a sustainable situation.

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^ 5

Leasing

Lou.

Tue Apr 01, 2008 at 02:35:44 PM EST

none

My understanding (at least in my state) is that if you have a lease, it must be honored by who ever owns the building.  Also in my state, money that is paid for deposits and such go into an escrow account that the landowner can't dip into for day-to-day operations.  I have lived through a property sale and except for a couple of people looking through the apartments I would have never had known what was going on.  The new landlords didn't even raise the rent when the lease came due which surprised the hell out of me.

That being said, I agree with you in the scenario you described.  But then, I would be so busy looking for a new place that I might not have time to trash it.

But I definitely wouldn't clean.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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