Sport

Baseball - great American pastime, or Communist plot?

Steve Urkel.

Posted to Sport on Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 02:27:29 PM EST (promoted by Acefantastik). RSS.

The crack of the bat. The smell of the balls. The grass.

It's baseball time again. What say you to that?

Also, watch out for commies in baseball.

Tags: written by Steve Urkel, edited by Ace, baseball, sports, steroids, Yankees Suck, Communism, apple pie, mom, your mom, scent of balls (all tags)

This story: 29 comments (11 from subqueue)
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12

Re: Baseball - great American pastime, or Communis

skeeter1.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 12:41:58 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

I haven't been to a Cleveland Indians game in a couple of years, and then only when we got "comp" tickets from a friend who is an announcer for the Toronto Blue Jays network.

The last couple of games I went to were the minor leagues... Akron Aeros and Eastlake Captains.  Know what?  They were more fun, and cheap.  Those smaller ballparks (roughly 6000 seats) are better, and they still have hot dogs and beer.  What more do you need?  Screw the major leagues.

there's only one way to find out...

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Re: Baseball - great American pastime, or Communis

thefadd.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:51:37 AM EST

none

I have to say it was fun to go to the Greensboro Bats games when I was there. You'd just go on an after noon, sit in the stands and drink beer. I never watched the game--personally you couldn't they were so god awful. You'd have one major leaguer out there on a rehab assignment and it was like watching a 12 year old playing in the 9 year old league. But it was a lot funner than going to a major league game any month not named September, October or November.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Baseball - great American pastime, or Communis

skeeter1.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 03:05:10 AM EST

none

"But it was a lot funner than going to a major league game any month not named September, October or November."

For that matter, I used to live four doors away from a public park where the peewee's played on Saturday mornings and I used to walk down there.  That was a lot of fun, too, although there were no hot dogs or beer, but it was free.  The last Indians game I went to, the tickets (although I didn't have to pay for them) were $30 for shitty nose-bleed seats.  The better tickets were $50.  Tack on $10 for parking, and that's just too much money.  Now, club seats are $110.  If the game is on TV (I have a HDTV), I'll watch it for free.  If it's not on TV, I'll read a book.  No way in hell that I'm blowing $110 + parking + $5 hotdogs + $7 beers to see a ball game.  I'll go back to the park and watch the peewee's first, and the last minor-league game I went to was $20, and that included food, all you could eat hotdogs, burgers, and potato salad.  Beer was extra, but only a couple of bucks.

Sorry, but the major leagues priced themselves out of the reach of their fans.  I'll take the minors (or kids) any day.

there's only one way to find out...

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This is a baseball boom?

Shy Elf.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 10:21:03 PM EST

none

That's the real mystery, isn't it?  Who wants to watch baseball nowadays?  Certainly not World Series television audiences.  A 10 rating for the world series?  I remember when the complete ratings list used to always have Punky Brewster alone at the very bottom of the list with a 10 rating.  Baseball is less popular than ever, but there are more people than ever willing to plop down big cash to fill up the seats for 81 home games a year.  I suppose it's the fault of our growing income disparity.

And can you actually see a ball game at the ball park?  Your eye can only see the pitches break if you're close to in line with the pitcher and the batter, which means the expensive seats behind the plate or down close to the ground in the outfield, which for some reason is one of the cheapest seats in the park.  I've always found baseball when you can't see the pitch selection to be about as interesting as watching paint dry, but for some reason people don't seem to mind as long as you feed them some expensive hot dogs and beer.  The hot dogs and beer and not the game are the point.  Since nobody's watching the game anyhow, I'm still trying to figure out how to get people to plunk down big cash to swill expensive hot dogs and beer together without a game, but some sort of deniable pretext for the expensive beer-swilling appears to be socially necessary, as otherwise they would take a day off work to go to a brew-pub.  Anyhow, all the new ballparks suck.

Watching from 10 stories in the air works just fine for football, where so long as you can see the players' locations, it doesn't so much matter that you can't see where the ball is going to land.  For baseball, it's awful.  Watching where the ball is going to land is the whole game.  Baseball stadiums need to stay low.  Screw the mezzanine and the club seats.

It's the club seats that give the greatest share of revenue.  Baseball has figured out that people and especially businesses will pay more, a lot more, to sit in exclusive seats where they can be together and be treated specially, and for some reason it doesn't matter that they're placed on the second deck where the view sucks.  Since it's a private box, this means that everyone else has to be lifted up another two stories than they would be if these few people in private box weren't there.

I've got a solution.  Site the private boxes partially underground, at the very edge of the field, behind plexiglas, with peoples' eyes only a foot or so off the ground.  That way they get a great view and the entire rest of the stadium doesn't need to be lifted to nosebleed heights for just a few people in boxes.   Probably you can squeeze extra money out of businesses for actually giving them some good seats, and nobody's using the wall's viewing space anyhow. And put more seats in the outfield where you can actually see the pitches.  If nobody wants to sit there, make the beer cheaper.  Maybe they'll actually learn how to watch baseball between swigs.

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Re: This is a baseball boom?

skeeter1.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 09:31:41 AM EST

none

"It's the club seats that give the greatest share of revenue.  Baseball has figured out that people and especially businesses will pay more, a lot more, to sit in exclusive seats where they can be together and be treated specially"

It's funny that you mentioned that.  Some years back, the hospital I was working at had a loge at the Gund Arena (now called the QuickenLoans arena), and once each year, they would raffle it off for charity.  Well, me and 11 other friends always won the bid for that, usually around $600, but that included parking and $300 for food and beverages.  That sounds like a lot for food and drinks, but it didn't go as far as you think, what with pizzas going for $25/ea, and beers for $4/ea.  

Usually, we went to a hockey game, a couple of times to a basketball game.  For one day/yr, we got to see how the richer set lives, and those loge seats are really nice!

Sadly, the hospital (somewhat cognizant about how it looked owning a loge when patients were paying increasingly more for medical bills) sold it, so we won't be doing that again.

Still, club seats at the stadium?  $110/ea?  No freaking way.

there's only one way to find out...

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Re: Baseball - great American pastime, or Communis

Acefantastik.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 03:26:03 AM EST

none

I have been to that stadium. If it is the same one--when I went to Greensboro in 2006, the stadium felt clean, and therefore new. I don't know how I feel about ballparks that don't stink of cigars and urine--Fenway, yeah, but even the Sox minor league affiliates that I went to watch as a kid had that manly ballpark smell.    Anyway, I had a blast at the bats game.  Even watched the ex win a ridiculous between innings sideshow race.

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Re: Baseball - great American pastime, or Communis

thefadd.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 12:26:35 PM EST

none

Nah, they're not the Bats anymore and they moved out of the cigar and piss hell hole/utopia War Memorial Stadium into a crappy new bank-named field a couple years before '06. The old stadium is still there but it's used by the local colleges instead. Greensboro is an interesting case because it used to be an amazing city for minor league sports. They were drawing record ice hockey crowds (20k/night) to Monarchs games in the pre-Hurricane days and the Bats were a top Yankees affiliate. Then, they got big-league fever, wanting to steal the Twins and hosting the Hurricanes for a couple years before they moved to Raleigh, plus an arena league team that failed horribly. After those set backs, the minor league popularity was pretty much ruined but hopefully it's starting to come back.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

27

Combat Training for Kids

rEvolution inAction.

Sat Apr 05, 2008 at 01:57:09 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

The way I see it baseball was invented as a way of keeping children safe.. first you tech them how to throw things at an attacker, then how to properly hit them from hiding (explains the batter stance), and finally they learn not to run straight home leading their attackers to the farmstead but to head to three bases before running home where they will be safe.

Tipping Sacred Cows

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Re: Combat Training for Kids

Lou.

Sun Apr 06, 2008 at 10:08:02 AM EST

none

and don't forget that whole bat thing

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

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Re: Combat Training for Kids

rEvolution inAction.

Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:43:28 PM EST

none

I didn't.. note the batter stance.. it's perfect way to hit someone if say you were hiding behind a tree.

Tipping Sacred Cows

1

Re: Baseball - great American pastime, or Communis

thefadd.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 03:00:24 PM EST

none

I think it's wrong that they're going to make the players cut their dreds--oh wait, that's football. I'm just happy not to hear about Bonds. I think the NL East will be a very intriguing race year with the Braves, Mets and Phils. I can't really bring myself to follow anything else, although I'll try to keep an eye on the Angels and Dodgers. Maybe I will even get out to a game this year. It's such a long season with so many games and players that it makes it tough to keep up aside from just checking in every once in awhile.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

2

Only one dollar to get into the mix

Steve Urkel.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 04:19:27 PM EST

none

I'm not a huge baseball fan, one way I've hit upon to enhance my viewing (when I'm at a bar) is to bet people on every minute detail of the game, like who will hit the first home run, will this pitcher walk the guy that's up, where the next hit will be, when will the idiot announcer interject something stupid. This is even more fun if there are fans of both teams in the bar, as you can pit them against each other.

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^ 2

Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Acefantastik.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 04:42:14 PM EST

none

Betting and baseball are beautiful together--you should have been a player.  Even though players aren't supposed to bet on their own games,  they bet on everything else in the world.

Re: communism,  I think the luxury tax and revenue sharing are a bunch of crap.  I say this as a fan of a well-heeled team, of course, but it strikes me as dumb to give money to the Pirates and the Royals every year and watch them suck anyway.  Quite a few medium budget teams have finally hired qualified nerds to pick proper players, and the Twins, Athletics, Cardinals, Rockies, and Diamondbacks have done pretty well.  If the bottom 5 or six teams insist on sucking, baseball shouldn't subsidize them.  

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Steve Urkel.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 04:52:48 PM EST

none

I don't really know the details of baseball finances, but obviously some teams seem incapable of competing.

It's interesting to me that the Florida Marlins have won two world series. To me it shows teams don't take enough risks with their rosters.

5

^ 4

Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Acefantastik.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 05:30:04 PM EST

none

The Marlins won their first World Series the old fashioned 1990s way--A smattering of highly paid all stars, some steroid users, and a good bench. Their second World Series win was more serendipitous--a young team with a few savvy vets went on a hot streak and came up with big time pitching and clutch hitting in the playoffs. Magic!

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

MayorBob.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 05:37:05 PM EST

none

Those were the days that were for Marlin fans.  But, like it or not, the dollar sign on the muscle is what wins you world championships.  And, sadly, for a whole bunch of fans of small to medium market teams, they're smoking dope if they think their team has a shot at ending up in the Fall Classic.  Doesn't mean that spending right through the roof guarantees you a World Series ring (otherwise, A Rod would be wearing a fistful of them).  But, spending well over a hundred million dollars probably will get you an entree to the playoffs.

Right now, the total payroll of the Marlins won't even make the $28 million price tag for A Rod.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Acefantastik.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 05:46:09 PM EST

none

sadly, for a whole bunch of fans of small to medium market teams, they're smoking dope if they think their team has a shot at ending up in the Fall Classic.

Hey, I'm smoking dope as I post this!   As a Red Sox fan, I'm in a bad place to lecture smaller-team fans about how their management should scout and sign players,  but the whole Moneyball era of VORP, WHIP, OPS, and other Star Trek style conventions to baseball rosters has lent some success to astute teams.  Hell, the Rockies even went to the Series last fall.   I agree with your dollar figures, but particularly in the horrible National League, "small ball" can reap gains with good planning.

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Steve Urkel.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 08:50:39 PM EST

none

I know, but the fact they had sucesss after essentially blowing up their team to me highlights the folly of what so many teams do, which is to only make marginal improvements, usually at a too high a price, out of risk aversion.

Isn't baseball's putting two expansion teams in Florida part of its problem? If there were 4 less teams the increased supply of players would balance the advantages of the big market teams considerably.

 

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

thefadd.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:48:53 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

Just like ice hockey, expansion is absolutely MLB's #1 underlying problem. The pitching simply isn't there. Everyone goes five deep in their rotations April through June and no one even has a legit four in the whole league. Between that and letting steroids happen without ever reacting for more than a decade, Selig is unqestionably the worst owner in the history of baseball and quite possibly American professional sports.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Steve Urkel.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 03:48:13 PM EST

none

I think he's kind of a bonehead, but worst in history? I'm think there have been two Mariners owners alone worse than him, but then I don't follow the Brewers.

You could also argue baseball steroids perfectly. By not doing anything they got a popularity boost from all the home runs, and all they have to do now is act apologetic and crack down a little and all the fans forgive them.

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^ 3

Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

thefadd.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 07:30:04 PM EST

none

I couldn't disagree more about revenue sharing and I'm a fan of a team who would theoretically be better off without that. Theoretical because it's highly theoretical that Philadelphia ownership would ever spend a dime more than they absolutely had to ever.

Baseball is actually a fantastic demonstration of democracy. Here you have 32 teams "competing" against one another in the same way that the Dems and Republicans theoretically compete against one another. Sure there's a score board that calls out individual winners and loser but they're all part of one company store. In total, baseball creates one product and that one product is best served to the consumer when the product appears most competitive on the field, which is actually when the teams cooperate and share the most off of it. The NFL of the past 10 years is hands done the best, most conclusive demonstration of this.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Acefantastik.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 03:41:32 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

The NFL doesn't have revenue sharing the same way that baseball does--and the NFL has a hard salary cap--no team can exceed the limit, end of story.  If I'm not mistaken, the NFL shares revenue from off-field licensing and merch +television related revenues, but home gates belong to the teams, as they should.  The fact that the 6 top ballclubs in MLB are required to give a few million each to about 10 who suck is bullshit.  

If baseball wanted to be "fair",  they should re-align in the style of English Soccer:  split up into 3 conferences of 10 teams each (with 12 in one of them, preferably the top circuit). Use cumulative records from the last three seasons to relegate and promote teams.    Give 6 playoff spots to Division A, 3 each to Division B and C.  Seed the playoffs by regular season record regardless of division and let the chips fall.  

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Shy Elf.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 09:05:16 PM EST

none

Except that most of the NFL revenue comes from the TV contract, so that teams receive nearly the same amount of revenue.

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Acefantastik.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 11:02:50 PM EST

none

Except that most of the NFL revenue comes from the TV contract, so that teams receive nearly the same amount of revenue.

That's because football is fun to watch on television for a great number of people.  Baseball is only interesting if one's own team (or one's own money) is involved. I'm not really yearning to watch the first place NL West team take on the first place AL central team in a hot interleague series on a Saturday afternoon in the middle of June.  But I will gladly watch the Red Sox play out the meaningless 6th through 9th innings against a fourth place AL West team on that same Saturday, because somehow I care.  Baseball doesn't need TV money as badly as football does--81 home games x 35K+ capacity buying tickets and concessions + luxury box revenues should be able to compete with 8 games (not including playoffs) x 70K ticket buyers + luxury box.  Baseball's money problems are of its own doing, and the idea that a shitty team with crap management should be given a fair shot because of a few hundred thousand fans (who don't even sell out the stadium) doesn't move me.  Having said that, the Pirates hired a new GM.  I wish them the best.  

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

thefadd.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 02:45:32 PM EST

none

I knew about the Premier league with the teams shuffling back and forth but I had no idea their playoffs were so wacky. I know inter league play is actually one of their bigger draws and they should find a way to make the Mets-Yankees, Angels-Dodgers, etc, play each other every year but I'd definitely like to see a return to some sort of more concentrated format where you're competing against a smaller number of teams in the regular season. I really feel like you've just got too many teams and players to be able to follow when games are every day. It's all so counter to how things are done now, I just don't think there's anyway the American audience will ever go for it. It's all sort of a moot point until they get Selig out of the picture, though.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: Only one dollar to get into the mix

Shy Elf.

Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 05:07:52 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

They don't have a playoff system at all.  It's 20 teams, and the schedule is a round-robin with a home game and an away game against each team for 38 games.

The sheer size of the system is impressive.  Apparently, it's not too hard to get your club team into the pyramid, with at least the theoretical ability to become a Premier League team if you can keep winning.

A system like this of course points out that the sports leagues we are used to are monopolies, and that there is really no reason that this needs to be the case.  In the US, a team can throw any old players onto the field, and will and still make money from people coming to see the stars of other teams play them, with no real consequences.  Another advantage of a system like this is that the minor league games are relevant to the championship because they can result in a promotion, and you have a lot easier time getting people to pay to go to lower league games than without promotion.

For TV viewers, a league of around 8-16 teams is probably best, because it concentrates the top talent.  I'd like to see a system like this implemented in the US, but the perception that the top talent is in the monopoly leagues is hard to break, so I can't really see something like this developing from the top down.  The only way I could really see something like this developing is from the bottom up staring as a regional amateur championship gradually turning into a national amateur championship, and then a national semi-pro league and then becoming a national pro league.

7

The relevant teams

Acefantastik.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 05:37:15 PM EST

none

There are only a handful of interesting teams this year.

The Tigers, who spent money wildly picking up some decent players.  Pitching may be spotty, but their lineup is pretty stacked.

The Red Sox, who have a nice blend of kids and fat guys.

The Yankees, for being the fucking hated Yankees.  

The Angels, who look pretty good again.

The Mariners, who look like they may be set up for a wild card run.

The Mets, with all their preening cocky players and a choke albatross around their neck.

The Cubs, who look good but have to endure a media crush of Cubs-related misery all year.

The Dodgers, because Joe Torre sells newspapers.

The Giants, who will be paying back the devil for Barry Bonds--the Giants may lose 100. If they play well.  

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Re: The relevant teams

delete me.

Wed Apr 02, 2008 at 10:41:42 PM EST

none

In other words, one of the small-market teams that Major League Baseball has been trying to get rid of will win the World Series instead.

- derumi (del-me)
"Bobby Fischer? Man, that guy is crazy!" - Mike Tyson

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Re: The relevant teams

Acefantastik.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 02:39:03 AM EST

none

Um, if you read my other comments, you would ascertain that I'm fine with small/medium teams who have good management--last year's Rockies, 2006's Cardinals, 2005's White Sox, the recent (with Santana/Hunter) Twins, this year's Mariners, and more--do just fine with realistic payrolls.  I don't have sympathy for the Royals and the Rays and the Pirates of the league, since they've been given dozens of millions of dollars in "sharing", and they don't do shit with it.  So in other words, a prudent team with good strategy and a bit of luck is every bit as likely to win the World Series as one of the gorilla teams.  

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