Politics

Keystone state key to the Democratic Nomination?

pO157.

Posted to Politics on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:18:49 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Today voters go to the polls in small towns and big cities across Pennsylvania to possibly decide the fate of the Democrat nomination.

The race for the Keystone state's delegates 188 delegates has been going on for weeks. Most analysts agree Mrs. Clinton needs a decisive victory in Pennsylvania to continue. The race has gone strongly negative, and hit a low point last week with an ABC News sponsored debate that mostly centered around 'trivial' rather than substantive campaign issues. Good weather is expected to help turnout today, and with 300,000 new voters switching to the Democratic party or joining anew in the past four months the outcome is anyone's guess.

The Obama campaign is already downplaying expectations. His campaign started 20 points beyond Senator Clinton in the Keystone state, and while they have shrunk the lead somewhat he is not very confident publicly. Mr. Obama recently made headlines for refusing to pay "street money" to the Philadelphia political machine. Analysts wonder if this will hurt his numbers in the Philadelphia stronghold.

On the GOP side, John McCain is believed to have clinched the nomination so the primary in Pennsylvania is more of a coronation or beauty contest than a serious primary. The other contender still in the race, Ron Paul, has slumped in fund raising as most followers realized the race is over for the GOP nomination.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by pO157, Pennsylvania, primary, elections, 2008 presidential election (all tags)

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2

This is embarassing...

pO157.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:49:09 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

The GOP has made a complete mockery of itself during the past few years. The President's approval ratings are at historic lows. People are disgusted at the economy, war, taxes, you name it. But if you look at the national polling data, McCain either wins or ties Clinton or Obama in a general election.

The Dems should be running away with this. This primary should be to determine the next President, for all intents and purposes. However, it looks like the GOP has a better than even shot in keeping the White House. The Democrats should be ashamed of themselves. If the GOP wins it will be because they snatched defeat from the jaws of almost certain victory.

5

^ 2

It's because

profwhat.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 04:22:48 PM EST

4.50 (brilliant, funny)

It's because Obama and Clinton resemble Bush in their inexperience and vacuum of leadership skills, while McCain merely resembles him in policy positions.

1

Who can reach across party lines better?

port1080.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:24:47 AM EST

none

This is the big question for November - is it Obama or is it Clinton? Clinton argues that her success in big primary states indicates that it's her, but I'm not so sure. It is true that Democrat white, working class voters prefer her, but I'm not so sure that disenchanted Independent & Republican voters looking to cross party lines are going to like Clinton over McCain. These folks, by definition, are looking for change. Clinton has cast herself as the business as usual candidate of the establishment, while Obama has taken the mantle of "change" and run with it as much as any candidate has since maybe McGovern. I think that the way this election cycle is playing out, cross-over voters might not see much difference between McCain and Clinton, and hence will stick with their original party preferences come November, but they will see Obama as distinct from McCain (in a positive way) and hence favor him over McCain come November.

12

^ 1

Re: Who can reach across party lines better?

ckm.

Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:50:32 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

Based on my observations and discussions with people I know, if Clinton wins the nomination, most people I know will vote for McCain.   And I live in San Francisco, perhaps the most liberal place in the US, and most of my friends are very liberal.  

Obama, however, is a different story.  Even staunch republicans I know like him and might vote for him.

My conclusion is that Clinton makes a McCain victory likely, whereas Obama is a wildcard.

Personally, I think the country needs Obama.   Clinton brings nothing new to the table other than gender, but Obama is really something different.   The country needs uniting and it needs a better international image, both of which, I think, can be achieved by Obama.  

16

^ 12

Re: Who can reach across party lines better?

PenitenziAgite.

Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 05:52:57 AM EST

4.50 (astute, interesting)

if Clinton wins the nomination, most people I know will vote for McCain.   And I live in San Francisco, perhaps the most liberal place in the US, and most of my friends are very liberal.  

People say that now, but come November they will all be yellow dog Democrats.  

sierra tango foxtrot uniform

17

^ 16

Did they get the memo?

pO157.

Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 06:21:45 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

People like that should be handed a memo informing them that there are more than two (2) parties and if one does not fulfill their needs then they have other choices.

If they still don't understand, then they should be forced to move their crap to Storage B and come in on Sunday.

18

^ 17

Re: Did they get the memo?

PenitenziAgite.

Mon Apr 28, 2008 at 11:30:04 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Considering that they live in San Francisco, it's a safe bet that CA will go for the Democrat, so there's definitely no need to vote for McCain if your Democrat doesn't get the nomination.  

But I just don't get the rationale that says "I'll vote for McCain!  Yeah, that'll show those Hillary people!"

sierra tango foxtrot uniform

19

^ 18

Re: Did they get the memo?

pO157.

Tue Apr 29, 2008 at 06:59:16 AM EST

none

Actually, if you are a member of the minority party and you don't support that candidate you are in a great position to vote in a 3rd party. Your vote is futile anyway, so you might as well go make a statement.

Picking a 3rd party you really care about is a much better statement than sitting on  your couch drinking Schlitz and bitching while some magic haired CNN anchor reads the results.

3

^ 1

It Doesn't Matter

thefadd.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 01:22:33 PM EST

none

McCain is the quintessential Republican give-him-the-nomination-'cause-he's-been-around-and-deserves-it-candidate. Just like Bob Dole, he's old, a long time Senator and lost previous primary runs bitterly. These guys never invigorate the base. They're easily (and rightly) criticized for being too old and out of touch. Their campaigns simply don't have the fire storming vitality of Reagan or Bush campaign and they suffer from the "we deserve to win" assumption that comes from having the nomination handed to them just because they've been around in the public eye for so long. Good luck doing Pepsi commercials with Britney, John.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

4

^ 3

I'm not voting for McCain, but I will say this:

pO157.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 02:11:26 PM EST

5.00 (astute, astute)

If he had won the GOP primary in 2000 instead of W I doubt this country would be in as bad of a mess as we are in now.

9

^ 4

Re: I'm not voting for McCain, but I will say this

PenitenziAgite.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 11:14:56 PM EST

4.00 (interesting, interesting)

The one thing I can be sure about had McCain become president is that the office of Vice President would not have become the most powerful seat of power in the government.

sierra tango foxtrot uniform

13

^ 9

Re: I'm not voting for McCain, but I will say this

ckm.

Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 10:53:50 AM EST

4.00 (funny, funny, funny)

You mean before or after he dropped dead in office?

(sorry, but I just had to...)

6

Can't blame the outcome on the weather.

MayorBob.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 04:48:28 PM EST

none

It's been beautiful in Southeastern Pennsylvania.  As a resident of Delaware, I am thankful that we are about to emerge from this long, dark journey through the soul of Pennsylvania and watch this three ring circus head out of state and on towards Denver.  I've no doubt that the irrelevancies will continue to roll on right up until the Democratic Convention opens.

The most recent irrelevancy came this morning.  I guess we can call this Adstickergate.  The front page of the Harrisburg paper had one of those removeable advertising stickers attached to it.  Of course, it got slapped over Hillary's mouth and, of course, Hillary supporters began seeing evil intent in it.  The paper said those stickers are affixed automatically and the placement wasn't intentional.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

7

^ 6

Re: Can't blame the outcome on the weather.

pO157.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:08:50 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

It's been beautiful in Southeastern Pennsylvania.  As a resident of Delaware, I am thankful that we are about to emerge from this long, dark journey through the soul of Pennsylvania and watch this three ring circus head out of state and on towards Denver.  I've no doubt that the irrelevancies will continue to roll on right up until the Democratic Convention opens.

I was watching CNN before the polls closed. I listened to a 10 minute talking head monologue (perhaps from Wolf Blizter?) explaining which counties to watch to find out the way the rest of the state swings. Apparently "Scranton, PA" is the veritable bellwether of the Keystone state. Why? Because it is representative of a majority of the area (conservative, lower class white people) and the area election people supposedly have their act together and can report quick. What ever happened to waiting until the next day and seeing who won -- or waiting 3 hours until the whole state reports back? Why do we have to look at swing counties in swing states? Has the whole country come down with a massive case of ADD or something?

Maybe we should just say screw it, and just poll the cast of "The Office." Hell, make them the state delegates and call it a day.

8

^ 7

poll the cast of "The Office."

profwhat.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:06:31 PM EST

5.00 (interesting, interesting, informative)

Maybe we should just say screw it, and just poll the cast of "The Office."

Angela:  McCain
Andy:  McCain
Creed:  Won't vote.
Darryl:  Obama
Jim:  Obama
Kelly: Obama
Kevin: McCain
Meredith: Clinton
Michael: McCain
Oscar: Clinton
Pam: Obama
Phyllis: Clinton
Stanley: Obama

That's Clinton, 3; McCain, 4; Obama, 5.

10

^ 8

Re: poll the cast of "The Office."

pO157.

Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:28:32 AM EST

none

I thought that show was full of quirky and unique individuals, and then they go and roll with the big name candidates. Why no love for the minor parties?

What about the Greens, Libertarians, Prohibitionists, Whigs or.... in a blinding moment of "WTF are these guys serious or do they get more campaign money with every adjective they dump in their name" the Libertarian National Socialist Green Party?

In other news, do you think they'd let me register as a Whig? Or maybe the Free-Soil party for some other old timey goodness.

14

^ 7

Re: Can't blame the outcome on the weather.

Ozyman.

Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 04:48:06 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

Your post reminded me of a science fiction story I must have read years and years ago.  The basic premise was that society was able to find the one citizen who was the accurate 'bellweather' for the entire nation, and instead of having everyone vote and having to count those votes, etc. they just had the one person vote and that was it.

15

^ 14

One man?

Lou.

Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 05:04:24 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

What a silly idea!  One man to make a decision?  Preposterous.  Everyone knows it's a cabal of 13.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

11

Re: Keystone state key to the Democratic Nominatio

pO157.

Wed Apr 23, 2008 at 06:32:41 AM EST

none

Well, it's all over and CNN's delegate counter shows Clinton now down by only 138 as opposed to 144 at the start of yesterday.

She pretty much needs to win every state from here on out, and convince an overriding majority of the uncommitted supers (perhaps at this point we should call them the Incredible Delegates!) before the convention.

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