Diary

I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

ivyafire.

Posted to Diary on Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:52:54 AM EST. RSS.

Up until the past few years, I believed people who had run-ins with the law usually deserved them.  Lately I keep reading about people being freed on DNA evidence after serving years for crimes they didn't commit, and I've known a couple of people who had experiences with the police that have made me question authority in a big way.  

People have told me my whole life we have the best justice system in the world.  I'm just not so sure anymore.

A couple of years ago we had a party in a fairly diverse part of the country with a fairly Caucasian police force.  One of our friends got a wild hair and decided he needed to drive somewhere, and all attempts by us and various others to dissuade him did little good.  Nobody present could see visible signs of intoxication, but as a precaution we didn't want him to drive, just in case.  I mentioned to him that I was worried about him driving while black, especially since he was headed to a neighborhood where he was the only black man.  We had about 8 people involved, but in the end it was a matter of Am I walking a straight line?  Am I slurring my words?   Is there anyone here big enough to stop me?   I'm still pissed that the he's obviously not drunk people shouted the rest of us down.

At any rate, we got a phone call hours later, informing us there had been an accident.  Here's where it gets weird.   When our friend left, his wife went with him.  Now, we know she was bitching up a storm the whole ride, because she was on the don't let him drive side.  It was dark.  The highways are not well lit there.   For some reason a dark (black, dark green, navy blue?) pickup truck was parked in the fast lane, no lights, no flashers, no flares.   We don't know if he was turned to her arguing, or if he just didn't see it because there were no lights, or what, but by the time he did, it was too late to stop, and POW!    Both he and his wife said later that when they hit, these guys came off the side of the road in shorts and Hawaiian shirts, like they had just been waiting for someone to hit it.  One of them yanked open the car door and started pulling the wife out by her arm, which was broken, and she screamed.  Our friend got out, pulled the guy off and proceeded to pound him into the pavement.  At no time did anyone identify themselves until the rest of them had pulled him off, then they claimed to be undercover officers.  He insisted they needed to produce a badge, which nobody did.  

The argument continued until a Highway Patrolman showed up. The Hawaiian shirt 'officers' claimed to him that they had received a call about a drunk driver.  (Where?  on their Tiki phone?)  They made no attempt to explain why they were parked in the fast lane, and he didn't ask.  Our friend passed a field sobriety test and left with the patrolman.  When this was all said and done, there was no record of the accident, these 'officers' were never named, the vehicle didn't exist, and they never could find out exactly what happened to them, but he still ended up  charged with DUI.  We all still can't figure out how a man can total his car by hitting a truck that doesn't exist, kick someone's ass, pass a field sobriety test and still end up in jail for DUI.  When it came time to call his insurance company, it was a nightmare because they wanted details he couldn't produce as the police force was withholding the pertinent information.   He couldn't confront his accusers or mount a defense because these guys were phantoms.   He lost his license for a year, spent a bundle, and luckily plea bargained a light sentence in the county jail and saved his job.    

But the question remains.  What the hell were those guys doing in that ditch, and why was that truck parked in the fast lane with no lights?  

Incident 2.  My husband was pulled over about a block from his workplace by an officer who approached and used a belligerent tone as he asked 'did you know you were going 45 in a 25?'  Dh laughed and said 'I don't think so, this car won't go that fast in that distance, I just pulled out of work over there.  The cop says 'Oh, you work over there?  I'm trying to catch the drunks that come out of that bar over there.  Have a nice night.'

So now I know why every night on our local news, the wrap up of every arrest report ends with the suspect became belligerent and resisted arrest.  These assholes are trying to cause people to become irate by copping an attitude and accusing them of something outrageous right off the bat.  I can only guess what they do to someone who has taken them on a chase or actually been disrespectful.  

So, you'll just  have to forgive me when I read about some cops in NY who shoot up a carload of guys in self-defense and I don't just automatically believe the cops are right and the dead guy had it coming.  

We need cops.  I just wish it weren't so easy for some of them to become corrupted by the power they have to ruin someone else's life, or to take it.

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3

Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

Lou.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 08:09:27 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

You're probably not a hippy (not that this is a bad thing).  I've seen some disturbing stuff amongst our boys in blue.

  1. High and tight mentality - I remember a time when cops looked like cops.  Peaked caps, shiny shoes, maybe a cheesy mustache.  Since then police look less like cops and more like some kind of urban paramilitary organization.  Combat boots, military hair cuts, baseball type caps, etc.  I know that some of this stuff reflects comfort and practicality, but some of it may be due to a change in attitude.

  2. Aggressiveness - Even here in podunk Maine cops have gotten that big city attitude.  I've seen that whole cop throwing his weight around crap...and in one case, the cooler the civilian played it, the more aggressive the cop got.  I was, as you say, almost like they were trying to provoke an incident.

  3. Media and entertainment - I forget the study, but back in the 90s, some research showed that the public perception of crimes committed was four times higher than what actually happened.  I believe the study went on to say that the cause was the 24 hour news cycle complete with helicopter chases plus the number and content of police dramas.  In that light, compare shows like Adam 12 to Law and Order or NYPD Blue.  We go from Officer Friendly to Bunker Mentality.  Cops are portrayed as the thin line between civilization and madness with madness taking the lead.  I can only guess at how these shows might affect the outlook of an actual cop on the street.

I don't see any quick solution other than to play by Chris Rock's rules...even though I'm white.  I still respect cops for the most part...but that respect is mixed in with a healthy dose of fear.

 

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

4

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Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

gerrymander.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 12:33:02 PM EST

none

I forget the study, but back in the 90s, some research showed that the public perception of crimes committed was four times higher than what actually happened.

Shouldn't this also apply to the perception of offenses being committed by cops?

I can only guess at how these shows might affect the outlook of an actual cop on the street.

Not as much as their actual job does, what with the constant dealing with criminals and all.

7

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Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

Lou.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 02:57:19 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Not as much as their actual job does, what with the constant dealing with criminals and all.

I'll give you that for the cops who work on the harsh and gritty streets of San Francisco, NY, and LA.  However, I used to go to a bar in Lewiston called the Blue Goose (cheap Guinness).  As it was, the Goose was also a favorite of local Leos (many of whom would roar drunkenly into the night on their Hogs).  To listen to them talk...fucking central Maine...you'd think that the barbarians were at the gates and if it wasn't for them we'd all be murdered and raped in our sleep.  My friends and I would puzzle over this as we safely walked home while sodden protectors of the civil peace would narrowly miss us as they rumbled home after a hard day of flirting with the waitresses at Denny's and giving kids with skateboards citations.  Their favorite television shows?  Football and Nascar of course...but in a close second, all of the cop dramas.  They loved them!  Why?  Because they "those shows really tell our story".  

Fucking drama queens.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

8

^ 7

Cops as television viewers.

MayorBob.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:07:06 PM EST

none

A close friend of ours was married to a Philadelphia cop for something like eight years. Eventually, they fell out of love and went splitsville. She told us the epiphany for her was the day she came home all convinced that what they needed was a serious heart-to-heart leading to some sort of marital counseling. So, when she says to him "hey, you know our marriage is on the rocks and we have to talk about what's in the future for us and our kids." He didn't even bother looking at her saying "alright, but can it wait -- Adam 12 is coming on." She says she got herself a good divorce attorney the next day.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

1

Preach it, brother.

pO157.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:25:19 AM EST

none

I am currently embroiled in a dispute with law enforcement. Suffice it to say my family was a victim of a violent crime this past weekend, to the point where people have told me I am lucky I am not seriously injured or one of my family members dead. The cops initially refused to charge the people, even though they have a long history of this crap and the cop knew this.

The situation got unreal when I found a copy of the report on which the responding officer felt the need to indicate the perps in question had relatives in city hall. I'm waiting to hear what the guys supervisor is going to do, but I give it 50-50 odds I will end up enacting the Hammer Down Protocol within 48 hours.

There are good cops, who do what they can, but there are so many assholes, and it seems the good ones must cover for the bad ones. I believe the immortal Mr. Cube had it right. Fuck the Police!

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I threw the red flag on myself.

pO157.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:35:29 AM EST

none

Upon further review of your post, the title of my Post #1 should have been "Preach it, Sister!"

pO157 regrets the error.

5

Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

ivyafire.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:02:01 PM EST

none

Not a problem. :)

I just watched a show about false confessions and the way teenagers are coerced into saying they did something with the promise they can defend themselves later.  shakes head

:(

 I grow more cynical every day.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

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Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

thefadd.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 01:54:01 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

That's not all they do. Ever see video of the cop holding the guy and then all of a sudden out of nowhere, he starts attacking the cop? Watch the officer's hands--they're usually behind the guy. They take a pin and stick it in your genitals to produce that violent reaction so that even if there's no initial infraction, they've got something to nail you with (resisting).

I think (obviously) it depends on where you live and your local police force. A friend hated "the fuzz" out here in LA then moved to NYC where she met guys who walked the beat and found them courteous and helpful to her.

A lot of the police violence and belligerence I think actually comes from them watching TV. The generation that's out there now saw COPS, etc and thought that was the way to behave...couldn't wait to run bad guys down and jump on them. I also agree with upthread that they need to go back to looking like professionals in a well cared for uniform. They need to stand out from the community with a distinct uniform that sets a tone of professionalism and gives a look that needs to be respected. A tee shirt and ball cap that say police make them look like rent-a-cop security guards and blends them in with the general community. It doesn't engender respect.

The vast majority of cops still just don't give a shit enough to be assholes, though. They're just trying to get through the work day with as few bumps as anyone else. Yesterday I saw a car go straight through a red light on a left turn only--directly in front of the police car--and the cop didn't so much as blink, simply went on his way the other direction. Then again, saw the same exact thing the night before in Glendale and the cop was licking his lips as he turned his lights on.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

9

^ 6

Bad boys bad boys

Lou.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:10:29 PM EST

none

I forgot about COPS...what a cultural trainwreck.  Of course, produced by our good friends at Fox.  I just checked the website...that shit has been on since 1988!  That means there's a whole generation of bullies who got their vocational guidance from watching our boys in blue t-shirts stomping through the nation's trailer parks.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

10

^ 9

Re: Bad boys bad boys

thefadd.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 03:16:26 PM EST

none

Hey--that's an Emmy winning show!

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

11

"Here's where it gets weird" -- indeed.

profwhat.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 04:51:58 PM EST

none

He couldn't confront his accusers or mount a defense because these guys were phantoms.   He lost his license for a year, spent a bundle, and luckily plea bargained a light sentence in the county jail and saved his job.

I know that you must have already considered the possibility that this story of Hawaiian shirts, undercover cops, and pickup trucks stopped in the fast lane was a lie told by your friend because he was embarrassed at what happened.  

Care to share why you believe him?  None of this sounds plausible to me.  I think he's lying to you.

If he had his wife in the car, she could have testified to what she saw at a trial and created reasonable doubt -- so why did he plea bargain?  (Have you asked her for her side of the story, BTW?  I gather that she didn't think her husband should have been driving).  Why didn't he use the pickup's license plate number to find out who owned it?  (Are you telling me he had a car accident and didn't write that down?)  If he passed the field sobriety tests, what was the probable cause to arrest him?  If there was none, why the hell is he plea bargaining?

What is the motive of the Hawaiian shirt guys?  Why would two undercover cops in Hawaiian shirts intentionally park a vehicle in the left lane of a highway to see who hits it, particularly if they are then going to disappear and not even take credit for the arrest statistic?  What was in it for them?  If they were out to get a black guy, how did they know in advance that the driver who was going to hit the pickup parked in the left lane was black?  Also, when the guy finally hit the pickup, what possible reason would they have to identify themselves as undercover cops, and then disappear?  Why not identify themselves as ordinary injured citizens, and then disappear?

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Re: "Here's where it gets weird"

thefadd.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:42:45 PM EST

5.00 (astute, informative)

Given that cops have stolen a woman's identity and given it to a college intern who they made become a stripper as part of a "sting" operation that netted nothing other than charges against the intern when she became dissatisfied with the operation, the "wacky ideas cops might come up with to fill their time" meter goes pretty darn high.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

15

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Re: "Here's where it gets weird"

profwhat.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:43:11 PM EST

none

Given the lies that people who have been accused of drunk driving have come up with, the "lies that guilty people might tell to save embarrassment" meter goes pretty high.  

And yes, it would be just as much a fallacy for me to group "people who have been accused of drunk driving" together into one unit as it is for you to group all cops into one unit.

16

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Re: "Here's where it gets weird"

thefadd.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:50:12 PM EST

none

Absolutely...I don't discount any possibility.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

12

Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

ivyafire.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:18:38 PM EST

none

Profwhat,

His wife was there to witness the whole thing, we drove by the glass/oil/leftovers on the highway on our way to pick her up when she called and described where it happened, 1 1/2 miles from our house.  We read the documents from his attorney.

The whole thing was hinky.

When it was written up in the paper, of course, officers were 'following a suspected drunk driver who became belligerent and assaulted an officer.'

How did he hit them from behind if they were following him?

The whole situation was just bizarre and doesn't make any sense.  We don't think they were necessarily setting him up, but we do feel like they were sitting there waiting for someone to hit the truck, for whatever reason.  Why, we don't know.  In that area, DWB would IMO make it more likely you would be pulled over in the first place, which is why we discouraged him from driving.  This particular setup, however, could have happened to anyone driving on that highway that night.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

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Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

profwhat.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:50:21 PM EST

none

Bizarre indeed... thanks for sharing the story and the additional details.  Count me in the camp of not believing your friend.  But then I don't know him (or his wife) and you do.

I do think, though, that before you reject the entire justice system over this incident, you should satisfy yourself first that things are as you describe them, and that this guy got the best legal counsel he could get.  As I've said, if this guy had a witness who saw the Hawaiian Shirt People, and he passed the field sobriety tests, then he had an excellent case and unless details are missing here I don't see why he wouldn't have fought this in court.

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Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

thefadd.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 06:59:32 PM EST

none

Not Hawaiian Shirt People Court!

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

19

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Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

ivyafire.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 07:14:50 PM EST

none

We urged him to, but he had previously been convicted of a felony and even after several years of walking the straight and narrow, he didn't think anyone would believe such a bizarre tale.

Your reaction and the way the police were able to make the evidence and their names disappear are exactly why he felt the way he did.

He was just happy to get it down to a misdemeanor instead of a felony.

For those of us who watched him work so hard to get his life back on track, it was painful to see him so defeated.       Any  you're right, if you knew him like we do, you would be in a different camp.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

13

Re: I used to trust the police, am I a hippie now?

ivyafire.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 at 05:23:18 PM EST

none

Sorry, I didn't answer all your questions.

The police department said they did not have to identify them because it would hinder investigations and put their lives in danger.  Their names were not on any police reports.  The truck and license plate were not on any reports.

We did go view the wrecked car, and it obviously hit something from behind, the whole front end was crumpled.  Of course, the truck evaporated.  He couldn't write down the license plate, he wasn't able to see it and wasn't given an opportunity when the cars were pulled apart, by then he was in custody.

They didn't have to testify because they didn't have to show their faces.

Because an officer's word on a report, even if he doesn't give his name, is supposed to carry more weight than a suspect's, he was screwed.
 

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

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