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Burma: hit by a cyclone, a 12-foot tidal wave and incompetent government

wetkarma.

Posted to Scoop on Tue May 06, 2008 at 06:37:54 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Cyclone Nargis has delivered a severe blow to the nation of Burma, with tens of thousands of people reported dead (most recent reports suggest up to 50,000 people have been killed) and over a million homeless and now without food as the category 3 cyclone pushed a massive tidal surge over the Irrawady delta sweeping away entire villages and leaving the coastal plain of Burma under water.

The city of Rangoon is without electricity or water with the military dictatorship seemingly unable to react in the face of mass devastation. Whether aid efforts can avert a further humanitarian disaster remains to be seen as Burma's relationship with the rest of the world is notoriously bad.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by wetkarma, Burma, Myanmar, typhoon (all tags)

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4

Thankful

Lou.

Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:55:34 PM EST

5.00 (astute, informative)

I am so glad I live in a country where national disasters are taken seriously.

WWGE: Who Would Gordon Enslave?

27

Incompetent?

adept.

Sun May 11, 2008 at 01:44:59 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

No, hardly. Purposely obstructionist. Either (a) they are hyper-paranoid of outsiders or (b) they are using the tragedy to do some housecleaning of their own.

Or, you know, (c) all of the above.

21

Hyping Disaster

wetkarma.

Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:45:59 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

This mornings edition of UK paper the Sun is now talking about 1/2m dead (lots of caveats buried in the fine print).

Its evident to a cynic like me that no one- possibly even the Burmese government- really knows whats going on in Burma right now. I think its illustrative however that even in 2007, you can kill lots of people (whether its 10k or 10m) and as long as there is a communications blackout, it doesn't matter.

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

23

^ 21

Re: Hyping Disaster

zyxwvutsr.

Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:45:33 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

One question is how many were killed by the storm (in the first 48 hours, say) and how many deaths came after that and could have been avoided if the Burmese government had allowed help to come into the country.

25

^ 23

Re: Hyping Disaster

wetkarma.

Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:36:38 AM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Well the typical post-disaster killers (cholera, dysentery, diarrhea, tetanus)  are quite stark to drowning. Its doubtful however that the infrastructure and willpower exists however to count and sort heads.

People are going to get sick -- seriously sick, if aid is not forthcoming. However as I've noted before, humans are fairly tough to kill. The weak have already died from the storm surge via drowning/debris impact. For the survivors, as long as they can obtain food, they have a decent chance at rebuilding on their own.

Its not as if the people of the Hawaiian Islands (for example) had never been hit by a hurricane and had to rebuild. Could a lot of suffering be averted if aid workers were brought on the scene? Absolutely. However is the lack of aid going to result in mass casualties as implied by the Sun? I doubt it.

Have to agree with Mayorbob re: the Burmese government though, they seem awfully Evil; charitably I'd like to call them clueless, but its hard for me to think that rational people don't realize the challenge thats facing them. Instead I suspect that the culture has become so used to central command authority (which is itself currently paralyzed) that noone knows what to do.
 

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

24

^ 23

That's A Question That Will Never Be Answered.

MayorBob.

Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:14:24 AM EST

none

I'm not even sure it's an answer that can be answered. Rather than try to even guesstimate the numbers who died in the initial storm surge apart from those who died after the initial attempts to deliver relief supplies, the only thing that matters to me is the unbelievable evil (yes that's an appropriate term here) and inept manner the Burmese government has dealt with this disaster. They've impounded all incoming supplies and refused to allow foreign technicians or medical staff to enter the country. Along with the tons of supplies, the UN and private relief agencies have delivered temporary warehousing facilities to store the food and medicines to allow for orderly distribution. Yet the Burmese government insists only Burmese will be distributing anything. The thing is, unless the food and medicine is stored properly they will spoil. The foreign technicians could erect those temporary warehouses in hours. Burmese, with no knowledge of how to do this, will likely take days or weeks to figure it all out and, by then, what they've impounded will probably be spoiled. Seeing as how the only thing the Burmese government has shown any particular skill at doing up till now is beating or killing a bunch of Buddhist monks, it's not likely that they'll be able to craft a distribution network to get supplies in the hands of those who need it anytime soon. Added to all the misery that nature has delivered, the government has ordered refugees out of shelters and back to their devastated villages so they can vote in a referendum on some sort of constitutional reform this weekend.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

26

^ 24

Re: That's A Question That Will Never Be Answered.

gerrymander.

Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:40:25 PM EST

5.00 (astute, astute, astute)

the only thing that matters to me is the unbelievable evil (yes that's an appropriate term here) and inept manner the Burmese government has dealt with this disaster.

I'm right with you on the "evil," but "inept" and "incompetent" (as per wetkarma)? That depends on whether you're assessing their goals correctly -- and I'd say you're not. The primary goals of the reigning junta are (I expect) to stay in power and to stay rich. So long as there are enough people to perform the necessary tasks of running the military and export economy (mostly drugs and gemstones, IIRC), everything else is dross. Since the areas which produce those products weren't affected by the typhoon, the latter is covered. As long as the junta can keep the outsiders out and the insiders in, they're two for two.

Heck, depending on the political composure of the storm-struck area, the junta might even be better off if they don't allow foreign aid. If the coastal lowlands areas were key regions for human rights advocates (and I think they were), every extra death of an Aung San Suu Kyi supporter from drowning, sickness or starvation is a small net gain.

1

This being the 21st Century and all.

MayorBob.

Tue May 06, 2008 at 07:25:36 PM EST

none

Burma has been Myanmar and Rangoon has been Yangon for going on 20 years.  Having said that, the ruling clique in the country has established a record of social enlightenment second only to North Korea in Asia.  Thus, as wetkarma points out it's problematic whether any aid will be offered and, if offered, if it would be accepted.

The reporting on this disaster from the country has been astounding.  First official report was maybe 100 or so dead.  Then, the next official estimate was 500 or so.  Then, it was bumped up to 10,000 and that turned out to be one town.  Has Michael Brown been spotted anywhere near Yangon?

Illegitimi non carborundum.

3

^ 1

Re: This being the 21st Century and all.

zyxwvutsr.

Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:54:22 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

Summers in Rangoon...luge lessons...

2

^ 1

Re: This being the 21st Century and all.

thefadd.

Tue May 06, 2008 at 08:46:43 PM EST

none

Oh yeah, this is that place where the US wants to push out the oppressive regime because they're killing our SE Asian drug trade and all the monks were marching about. Well, that's God's wrath for ya and all that good stuff. Btw, the US doesn't recognize the Myanmar name change because it came at the hands of a military junta we don't back.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

7

^ 1

Re: This being the 21st Century and all.

port1080.

Wed May 07, 2008 at 05:43:13 AM EST

none

Eh, I doubt the name change will outlast the regime by much (anybody remember Zaire?).  Even us hippie-dippie liberal academics tend to call it Burma out of protest - nobody wants to legitimate anything that regime has done.  If a democratically elected government wants to stick with that name, so be it, I'll start calling it Myanmar, but for now, to me, it's Burma.

5

Just wondering

Lou.

Tue May 06, 2008 at 09:57:07 PM EST

none

Who the fuck thinks that the aid workers are exaggerating?

WWGE: Who Would Gordon Enslave?

6

^ 5

Re: Just wondering

wetkarma.

Wed May 07, 2008 at 03:56:03 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant)


Who the fuck thinks that the aid workers are exaggerating?

I do. Couple reasons -- all the figures are estimates. The Burmese government estimates 25k people dead and 40k missing. Obviously some of the missing people are going to show up dead, but just like in any disaster some of those missing people will turn up in a hospital/elsewhere over the days to come. For publicity/attention grabbing reasons 50k dead sounds (and is) a lot worse than 25k dead.  Keep in mind that there is virtually no reliable third party information (free press) in Burma -- as a result all info should be taken with a grain of salt.

Second, humans are notoriously hard to kill. Even in war, a single day casualty figure of that high is rarely seen. There will be lots of stories of people grabbing on to a water cooler/bit of debris as they were swept away -- when we finally get the data its going to be the very young and the very old who mostly died.

Finally -- I've had prior experience with charitable organizations. They never give conservative estimates and always make a situation worse than it is -- not to be evil, but to accelerate aid. If you look at environmentalist organization they have the same credibility problem as well -- remember when the amazon was supposed to have been chopped down by now?

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

8

^ 6

No real precedent of death

Lou.

Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:20:54 AM EST

none

You make a good point and given that death tolls  from cyclones and tsunamis in that part of the world have always been remarkably low, there's no reason to assume that what we're seeing in Burma is just more of the tired old exaggeration.

remember when the amazon was supposed to have been chopped down by now?

No, I don't.  Do you?  I have read* where deforestation has been a serious and growing problem in that region.  However, I don't remember any sort of report saying that the forest will be chopped down by May 7, 2008.

*Of course, I know of this stuff only through the media.  Until I can put boots on the ground and whip out the old tape measure, I won't really know for sure.

WWGE: Who Would Gordon Enslave?

9

^ 8

My God, the mosquitos are the size of Buicks!

MayorBob.

Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:38:36 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

"I have read* where deforestation has been a serious and growing problem in that region.  However, I don't remember any sort of report saying that the forest will be chopped down by May 7, 2008.

*Of course, I know of this stuff only through the media.  Until I can put boots on the ground and whip out the old tape measure, I won't really know for sure."

Make sure you pack plenty of insect repellent for your trip.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

10

^ 9

Re: My God, the mosquitos are the size of Buicks!

Lou.

Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:50:13 AM EST

5.00 (funny)

Pah...I live in Maine, your honor.  Forget mosquitoes...we have Black Flies (photo actual size).  We don't even bother with insect repellent any more.  The smart camper or backpacker never walks into the Maine woods without flechette grenades...or at least a good automatic shotgun.

WWGE: Who Would Gordon Enslave?

13

^ 10

Re: My God, the mosquitos are the size of Buicks!

postillion.

Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:11:48 PM EST

none

As my friend likes to say: No one wants to see that ugly shit.

That photo is going to give me nightmares.

14

^ 6

Re: Just wondering

postillion.

Wed May 07, 2008 at 10:19:09 PM EST

none

Wetkarma is right.  Generally, most early estimates for disasters are off.

I recall initial possible death toll estimate for 9/11 the day after being much higher, possibly 3x higher than the final death toll.

There was also an earthquake in 1999, either in Turkey or Egypt, I forget which, where the government didn't want to officially lower the death toll even after realizing that the actual death toll was half the initial estimate because they were afraid they wouldn't receive as much international help with a lower death toll.

15

^ 14

Re: Just wondering

thefadd.

Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:54:23 AM EST

none

Only three times higher? Barely two thousand people died...news reports were quoting tens of thousands for days afterwards and Bush was holding onto the 10k number well into November.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

16

^ 15

Re: Just wondering

postillion.

Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:47:56 AM EST

none

I had to go look it up.  Looks like death toll in 2007 was 2750, after they added a couple of names of those who died of a lung related issue after 9/11.

Murky, very murky. There are people who advocate that anyone at 9/11 dying of a lung related disease should be put on the list.  While it's more than likely that the lung problem is related to 9/11, I don't know about putting it on the 9/11 casualty list.  

17

^ 16

Re: Just wondering

thefadd.

Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:17:31 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Those people should go on the Bush failed-disaster-relief victims list along with the Katrina victims given that the EPA under Whitman knew there were high levels of dangerous toxins but continued to insist otherwise for up to two years.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

11

^ 5

Re: Just wondering

zyxwvutsr.

Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:44:48 AM EST

none

Aid workers always exaggerate. They want more help and attention.

12

Manbearpig Alert

thefadd.

Wed May 07, 2008 at 01:23:54 PM EST

none

Al Gore has called the cyclone a result of global warming.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

18

^ 12

Re: Manbearpig Alert

wetkarma.

Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:32:05 PM EST

none

I love Al Gore because he made earth tones clothes hip and of course there is that internet thing -- and although I'm somewhat of a skeptic/cynical pragmatist when it comes to global warming, I have to really question whether he is doing his cause any good by making a statement like this.

Best as I can understand hurricanes are caused by a mixture of water temperature and air currents...now per Al if you warm up these, you get bigger badder hurricanes. Except the latest data is showing that the past few months have been cooler than normal - to the point where some people are predicting a natural 'global cooling' before the man-made warming overrides it. [its all very confusing I know]

But here's my point -- if these mega natural disasters are happening in cooling conditions as well as warming conditions...doesn't it make the idea that the disaster strength being causally linked to climate change somewhat specious? Shouldn't a killer butterfly flapping its wings last week around India be more likely to blame?

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

28

^ 18

Re: Manbearpig Alert

Shy Elf.

Sun May 11, 2008 at 02:52:35 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

Except the latest data is showing that the past few months have been cooler than normal
Wrong.  But more to the point the northern part of the Indian ocean is cooler than normal, so attributing this particular storm to global warming is just plain wrong.  Or, to put it more precisely, global warming made the storm more likely, but a local cool temperature anomaly at the time it formed made it less likely than normal.  More to the point, it was only a minimal category 4 storm, which is not an exceptionally big storm.

The geography in this region has a lot of very flat big river flood plains, which make the area extremely susceptible to storm surges.

If there are deaths approaching a million from this storm, it's going to be from famine caused by the storm and not by deaths directly caused by the storm.

20

^ 18

Re: Manbearpig Alert

postillion.

Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:54:31 PM EST

4.00 (astute, astute)

Except the latest data is showing that the past few months have been cooler than normal - to the point where some people are predicting a natural 'global cooling' before the man-made warming overrides it. [its all very confusing I know]

If I remember Al's documentary correctly, global warming does not necessarily mean that the local weather will be consistently warmer (and hence the reason why people's anecdotal evidence about "it's such a warm winter day... gosh, that global warming" has no bearing).  

Instead, the most reliable factor of whether global warming is occurring over the long term is by studying glaciers.

But I do agree with you overall that Al's speedy reaction to capitalize marketing about global warming from this event is not necessarily helpful to the cause of deterring global warming.

19

^ 18

Re: Manbearpig Alert

gerrymander.

Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:39:23 PM EST

none

If it weren't for all those corporate-funded 6-year-old girl denialists, we would have ended the butterfly menace years ago.

22

Don't know about incompetent

Lou.

Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:17:53 AM EST

none

Evil and venal maybe.

WWGE: Who Would Gordon Enslave?

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