Business

Freddie's Dead?

3fingerspointback.

Posted to Business on Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 05:17:41 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

When a big bank like IndyMac fails, it may cost the government up to $8 Billion out of its FDIC fund to compensate burned account holders.  When huge banks like Bear Stearns fail, the Fed might front cash to buy the riskiest $29 Billion in order to get the rest of the business into the hands of another company and keep the machine running.  And then there are the banks like Fannie Mae (FNMA) and Freddie Mac (FHLMC).

Originally set up during the New Deal as Government Sponsored Enterprises (GSEs), then privatized in 1968, these banks do most of their business in the secondary mortgage market:  You might not take out your home loan directly with FNMA or FHLMC, but chances are pretty good that your bank will resell their end of the loan to them once all the papers are signed.  Your loan might then get bundled up with a bunch of other loans from people like you (in the financial sense), and that wad of mortgages will be resold on the bond market as a Mortgage-backed security.  Fannie and Freddie make most of their money by charging an insurance fee that guarantees payment to the investor in case you or any of your MBS-mates default on your loans.  FNMA and FHLMC have pretty much cornered the secondary mortgage market.  Combined, both institutions either hold or guarantee half of all mortgages in the United States, an estimated $5-6 Trillion in assets.

Of course, with all this talk of mortgages and securitized debt and finance, it was only a matter of time before people started worrying that maybe these banks' assets aren't quite as sound as they should be.  Both companies stock values have been in slow erosion over the past year, but on July 7, a Lehman Brothers report predicted that new accounting rules would require them to come up with a quick $75 Billion to cover the books.  Since then, the stocks have been in free fall, from highs of $64/share last October to single digits today.

The general narrative is this:  Freddie and Fannie will need to raise their fees to institutional investors, both to raise cash to cover the new accounting obligations and to reflect the rising risk in the mortgage market.  That will make mortgage-backed securities less attractive, and so the GSEs won't be able to resell as many loans.  With less loans being purchased, your local banks won't be able to pass off their own loans for the quick capital needed to do more business, which means that it will be a lot harder for you to get your loan, and so the economy grinds down.  To a halt even, if the GSEs end up tanking.

Overshadowing all of this has been the assumption on everyone's part that the U.S. Government will not permit the two companies to fail.  Technically, both Fannie and Freddie have been privately owned and operated since 1968, but their past as government agencies, combined with their staggering size, has implied that the state would step back in to the rescue if anything too horrible happens.  And indeed, on July 15th Treasury Secretary Paulson went to congress to ask for a blank check to buy shares of the companies until investor confidence is restored.  This bailout plan would be put into effect at an undetermined time in the future, possibly never.

Which brings us to the big question:  How much trouble are Fannie and Freddie in, really?  Both institutions deal only in prime loans.  In fact, these institutions are the ones that decide what, exactly, a "prime" loan is.  So any effects of the subprime meltdown will be felt indirectly at best.  Both companies also claim that they actually have more capital than they need.  Are we really looking at the next big financial crisis, or just a rumor-driven stock drop that will be a big steal for the bold?

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by 3fingerspointback, economics, politics, federal reserve, FAIL (all tags)

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1

Short answer here.

MayorBob.

Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 05:27:27 PM EST

none

With Freddie and Fanny underwriting half the mortgages in the US and with $5 to $6 trillion in assets at stake, you'd better bet your bippie that failure is not an option. In the same way the federal government can't let the social security system to collapse, especially now that all those Boomers are set to cash in on their prize. In short, declare an emergency and imminent collapse of whatever public or quasi-public entity you could name and the federal government will always sashay in to drag everyone's coals out of the fire.

I tend to believe this is investor angst over stock price more than it is a real threat that the two entities are going belly up. Congress is moving out smartly to give Bush what's needed to stabilize both Freddie and Fanny.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

2

How bad can it get?

port1080.

Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 07:15:25 PM EST

none

I've had a lot of people ask me that recently and I'm not sure how to answer at this point.  I still doubt that we're in for any sort of Great Depression level scenario - there are too many mechanisms in place (both international and domestic) for that sort of situation to happen again, I think.  Even if things get rather bad, world governments are simply more capable now of responding than they were in the 1920s.  Overall production may decrease, but I think we could expect a competent enough response that we wouldn't see starvation or anything quite like the mass desperation that characterized the Depression.  That said, things could still get pretty damn bad without hitting those levels.  I think a more realistic parallel would be some awful cross between the situation the UK got itself in during the early 1970s (nearly defaulting on its debt, worldwide public embarrassment) combined with the worst of 1970s-US gas lines, stagflation, et. al., combined with a 1990s Japan style malaise of nonexistent growth and failed stimulus measure after failed stimulus measure.  I hope I'm wrong, and I don't necessarily think that's the most likely thing that will happen, but I do think it's the most likely "worst case scenario", anyway.

So, what's your worst case scenario that you think might actually happen?

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^ 2

Re: How bad can it get?

thefadd.

Tue Jul 15, 2008 at 07:45:57 PM EST

none

As has been bandied about in the press, bank failures like this are lagging indicators, not leading indicators and even the worst projections (150 failures out of 7500 US banks) aren't as bad as the early 90's bank failures that were fallout from the late 80's S&L debacle. What I think you'll see is more acquisitions by Bank of America and more countries allowing in otherwise intolerable alternatives like feasting on genetically modified freaks.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

6

^ 3

genetic freaks

JimmyHavok.

Sun Jul 20, 2008 at 02:54:58 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

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^ 6

Re: genetic freaks

thefadd.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 01:10:48 PM EST

none

Except the thing under your first link hasn't been gmo'ed for the express purpose of withstanding significantly increased amounts of pesticides.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

11

^ 8

Re: genetic freaks

JimmyHavok.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 05:10:48 PM EST

none

I agree that some GMO-produced characteristics are not good ideas, e.g. the low-slung hips of German Shepherds.  However, that shouldn't lead to a blanket condemnation of GMO, just better regulation.

12

^ 11

Re: genetic freaks

thefadd.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 05:16:19 PM EST

none

Here, here. I'm certainly not an advocate of banning research, just honest food labeling. But when a company genetically alters its seeds so that they and only they can withstanding massive increases in toxicity from a pesticide product offered only by the same company, some anti-trust investigations would also be nice.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

4

^ 3

Re: How bad can it get?

JimmyHavok.

Wed Jul 16, 2008 at 06:01:53 PM EST

none

Bank failures are more positive feedback than indicators.  When banks fail, they reduce confidence and lead to more failures in a self-reinforcing circle.  That's why "too big to be allowed to fail," no matter how little we like the concept, is true, and also why we need to put restrictions on the size of institutions that don't allow them to be so big they can't be allowed to fail.

5

^ 4

They have the "good' Mortgages.

Shy Elf.

Sat Jul 19, 2008 at 04:23:25 AM EST

none

Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae own only the good or "conforming" mortgages.  This means that they escaped the worst of the excesses of the mortgage meltdown.

Of course, even in the high quality sector, the effects are bad enough that their (poorly capitalized) equity will be entirely wiped out.  Nevertheless, the cost of a bailout will be at worst half an Iraq War, and most likely much less.  It's nothing the US government can't handle comfortably.

Property in inflated markets in the US reached a high of about twice what would have been reasonable, compared with about ten times what was reasonable before the bursting of the Japanese real-estate bubble.  It's just not nearly so big of a macro-economic issue as it is claimed to be in the press.

I see depression-level economic conditions as probable in the US, but this is due to our persistent refusal to believe that oil production will soon peak and to make alternative plans, and is mostly unrelated to the real-estate market.

7

^ 5

Re: They have the "good' Mortgages.

joshv.

Mon Jul 21, 2008 at 12:05:14 PM EST

none

I too fear depression like conditions in the US.  I think we face an almost perfect economic storm - a combination of peak oil, inexcusably poor energy planning/policy, the disappearance of manufacturing in the US, and massive indebtedness.  The various bubble markets are symptoms of idiots lending us too much money, because they assumed us bright Americans knew what we were doing.

I also fear much worse scenarios, related to peak oil.  Suppose there is a severe supply shortage either due to increasing demand, decreasing supply, or our currency inflating to the point of worthlessness.  What alternate plans do we have for getting food into our cities that don't rely on petroleum products?  American cities rely almost exclusively on trains, planes and trucks that all run on fossil fuels, for almost all of their supplies, and it's mostly trucked in on demand - there is very little storage capacity.  So it wouldn't take much of a disruption in the oil supply to result in some pretty severe living conditions in our major cities - especially a northern city in the winter, which won't have the luxury of being able to plunder the country farms located nearby.

You might think this sort of scenario to be extremely implausible, but few thought a tripling in the dollar price of oil in under a year to be possible.

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Re: They have the "good' Mortgages.

Shy Elf.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 04:31:32 AM EST

none

You neglected to mention barges which carry a large fraction of transported food, but are not all that much more efficient than railroads.

The amount of energy used in food transportation is actually pretty negligible, so I don't really see that as being a special problem.  The real problem with agricultural energy usage is actually nitrogenous fertilizer made from natural gas, which people don't tend to think about.

Bilmps and other neutrally buoyant airships have no constraints on their shape, so their shape is roughly the 10:1 length to diameter ratio which leads to a minimum drag to volume ratio for any given volume.  A corollary of this is that at normal speeds, a train will have only about a 2:1 advantage in fuel efficiency over a truck traveling at the same speed.  But since the rolling resistance of trains is very, very low, they get the full benefit of a 4x fuel economy improvement for reducing speeds, while trucks with their higher rolling resistance do not.  This means that so long as you are willing to rely on slow trains for your goods transportation, it doesn't cause much of a fuel consumption problem.

The problems which seem to me to be really hard to get around are nitrogenous fertilizer production, heating of existing buildings, and daily commuter transportation.

10

^ 9

Re: They have the "good' Mortgages.

port1080.

Tue Jul 22, 2008 at 08:46:01 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

A corollary of this is that at normal speeds, a train will have only about a 2:1 advantage in fuel efficiency over a truck traveling at the same speed.  But since the rolling resistance of trains is very, very low, they get the full benefit of a 4x fuel economy improvement for reducing speeds, while trucks with their higher rolling resistance do not.

Add to this the fact that we could always go back to coal / steam locomotives if need be.  The technology is all still there and well proven, and wouldn't take that long to get back into production if things were looking bad.  It certainly wouldn't be kind to the environment, but if it's that or mass starvation...

13

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Re: They have the "good' Mortgages.

joshv.

Wed Jul 23, 2008 at 09:53:19 PM EST

none

"The amount of energy used in food transportation is actually pretty negligible, so I don't really see that as being a special problem."

I don't know about that.  See here.  They list transport at 13.9% of the energy required for food production.  Not negligible.  And most importantly, it's the critical link.  If you can't get it to the consumer, it doesn't matter if you had the energy to produce it.

Not that we shouldn't worry about petroleum and natural gas inputs in the form of fertilizer and pesticides - but I don't think we'd much miss them, at least not in the overfed US.  Assume that we had to quit cold turkey, and agricultural production in the US fell 25%.  What would happen?  We'd actually start eating a normal amount of food.

So it's possible to produce food in the US without fossil fuel inputs (just with lower productivity), but it's impossible to distribute the food without fossil fuels.  That's a huge problem, and one that's not been given much thought.

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