SciTech

Anthrax Terror Case Solved? [Breaking News]

pO157.

Posted to SciTech on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 06:22:12 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

A government scientist who helped investigate the 2001 anthrax attacks is believed to be the one responsible for spreading the disease. He is no longer among the living after reportedly committing suicide just after learning he was about to be indicted and face the death penalty.

Bruce E. Ivins, 62, died at a Maryland hospital on tuesday from an overdose consisting of a large amount of Tylenol and codeine. Dr. Ivins had worked at the elite US Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases for about 18 years as a microbiologist. He held a degree in Pharmacy from Princeton University and bachelors and PhD degrees from the University of Cincinnati. He was described a brilliant scientist who had received the highest Department of Defense award given to a civilian for his work on the anthrax vaccine that now protects American servicemen and women. A search of a database of scientific work reveals he recorded 44 publications, the majority of which dealt with vaccines or anthrax research, including one which was published less than three weeks ago that dealt with inhalation anthrax in mice.

The deadly anthrax attacks followed at the heels of 9/11. Chaos swept the nation as five people died and dozens were sickened or exposed from mailed anthrax spores. Those familiar with the case expected significant movement at any moment. Last month the government rushed through a $5.8 million settlement with Dr. Steven Hatfill, who suffered career and life altering defamation as a result of being labeled a "person of interest." On Friday the US Postal Service and FBI released a statement saying that significant breakthroughs had occurred in the case and more information would be released soon.

Sources told that reporters that the investigation refocused on Dr. Ivins in late 2006 after the leadership of the case changed. Dr. Ivins reportedly became the center of the investigation after records determined he had neglected to inform his superiors about a breach of biocontainment that lead to anthrax spores being found in his office and other unsecure areas after the time the letters were mailed. He admitted attempting to clean it up himself to avoid ruining the career of a sloppy lab technician. One senior USAMRIID official stated that Dr. Ivins story was "bullshit."

Harry Heine, another worker at the Fort Detrick facility, told news agencies that members of Ivins group had testified in front of a grand jury several times over the span of about a year. After the government exonerated Hatfill in June Ivins reportedly became erratic, and was finally escorted from his job by police and placed in a secured mental health facility where he was treated for depression. Mental health workers had originally diagnosed Dr. Ivins with a long history of homicidal and sociopathic behavior. He was released on July 24th and committed suicide soon after finding out he was facing indictment and the death penalty.

Dr. Ivins' family declined comment during this sensitive time, and his attorney claimed his client would have been exonerated at trial.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by pO157, anthrax, terrorism (all tags)

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1

Re: Anthrax Terror Case Solved? [Breaking News]

pO157.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:37:38 AM EST

5.00 (astute, interesting)

I, for one, would really like to believe the government when they say that Ivins was the guilty party. I really would. The jackass (and that is probably the mildest possible term, or string thereof) responsible for the anthrax attacks deserved to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. However I find it hard to believe the government when they already ruined the life of one innocent person.

On a related note, is anybody else bothered that Hatfill will never get an apology, just cash? That kind of pisses me off. Why can't the investigators in that case be the bigger people and admit they made a mistake? I assume there was a release of liability signed by Dr. Hatfill. So why can't they just own up to their mistakes? If I was Hatfill I'd want an apology rather than a bunch of money and a denial that any mistakes were made.

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Re: Anthrax Terror Case Solved? [Breaking News]

wetkarma.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 05:39:25 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

All excellent points.

Then again, this therapist report where the therapist sought a protection order from the court, makes him sound pretty damn crazy.

As for the apology - I am somewhat ambivalent to the concept of institutions/organizations apologizing. When my friend spills red wine on my floor and apologizes...that means something to me. Especially when he helps me clean it up/pays for repair.

When my bank or the IRS loses my money and apologizes...I'm not that touched. The difference is that I don't have a personal relationship with anyone at the company or the government -- sure things will be said like 'sorry, and we take this seriously', but really...the whole point of a corporation is the creation of a device to obtain individual profit without individual responsibility. Where's  the individual responsibility in government investigations?

Memory is a strange bell, jubilee and knell.

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Re: Anthrax Terror Case Solved? [Breaking News]

pO157.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 08:07:35 PM EST

5.00 (informative, astute)

I see your point, and it is well reasoned. Call me old fashioned, but I believe a well thought out apology from the person in charge is the right thing to do. There is still individual responsibility in government. In this case the Attorney General or the individual in charge of the investigation holds ultimate responsibility for the conduct of their underlings. If the agents, acting in the name of AG Gonzalez, his predecessors, or the head of the FBI screwed up royally, couldn't the AG at least make an I'm sorry phone call to Dr. Hatfill? They sure as hell would have been out in front of the cameras taking massive credit and PR points if Hatfill was guilty. It should go both ways.

That is not to say that Dr. Hatfill did not deserve fat stacks of cash. He did. But I think he should have gotten an apology from the Attorney General as well as from the head of the investigation. They did the same for Richard Jewel, so why not for somebody who arguably served our country for years in addition to getting screwed by the FBI?

Also, I will be gone for the next several days to an undisclosed location in the carribean, working on my advanced scuba license and having a margarita made in my mouth. Not at the same time.

12

Cost Effective

permazorch.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 08:07:38 AM EST

5.00 (interesting, interesting)

I just want to say this was one of the few things the Bush Administration has done well.
The amount of fear and anxiety reaped by this operation was admirably cost effective. Hey, it's not like much was going to be done with this anthrax, anyway, am I right?
Also, I have to compliment you on the nice and neat job of cleaning up your mess.

You'll only have to worry about people asking after motive, I guess, and knowing humans (particularly in this country), that shouldn't be difficult at all.

----- The earth may burn, but we will quiver

27

Ivins poetry

Steve Urkel.

Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 07:07:46 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

AP is reporting:

And then there is a bizarre poem written months after the attacks. In it, Ivins described "exchanging personalities" and said the sensation was "rather fun."

Another poem went like this, according to the affidavit:

"I'm a little dream-self, short and stout.

"I'm the other half of Bruce--when he lets me out.

"When I get all steamed up, I don't pout.

"I push Bruce aside, them (then) I'm Free to run about!"

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Re: Ivins poetry

thefadd.

Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 08:56:42 PM EST

4.00 (funny)

They've got some real artistes in their evidence creation department, they do.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

10

stinks like a coverup

JimmyHavok.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:30:38 PM EST

4.50 (interesting, interesting)

The significant fact of the anthrax mailings was that they all went to political enemies of George Bush.  That's something that has never been explained, nor does this explain it.

If Ivins was a sociopath, I would expect his victims to be people who were inconvenient to him, not people who were inconvenient to the Sociopath-in-Chief.  But now he's conveniently dead, so Case Closed!

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Re: stinks like a coverup

profwhat.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 08:52:51 AM EST

none

They did not all go to political enemies of George Bush.  They also went to NBC News, the New York Post, and the offices of "The Sun," a supermarket celebrity tabloid that as far as I know never covers politics.  The Post is mildly pro-Bush (at least it was in 2001), and NBC News is just... there.

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Re: stinks like a coverup

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 09:43:18 AM EST

none

That's what they want you to think.

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^ 14

sigh

JimmyHavok.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 06:13:31 PM EST

none

The Sun is a publication of AMI, which also publishes the National Enquirer, which is where the letter that contained the anthrax that killed Robert Stevens of The Sun was addressed to.  By your logic, if The Sun was a target, the USPS must have been a target as well, since all the other victims were mail carriers.  I have to admit that the Post is the flier in the bunch, since it's a Murdoch product.  However, they got a much milder form of anthrax, a cutaneous form unlikely to actually cause any injury, whereas Leahy, Daschle, and the Enquirer, those Bush would most likely have wanted to see dead, got the weaponized inhalation form.

NBC News is just... there.

NBC News, ABC News, CBS News...the MSM triumvirate.

The media letters were probably meant to create a pro-war panic.  I don't suppose you remember how all and sundry in the pro-war gang told us that the anthrax came fro Iraq?

Dude, it's pathetic arguing with someone who won't even do research.  Can't you even get your facts straight?

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more interesting stuff

JimmyHavok.

Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 05:17:27 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

Apparently, while Ivins was working with the liquid form of the anthrax that was mailed to Daschle et al, he never worked with the weaponized form, so he would have had to weaponize it himself with make shift equipment.

It seems strange that one person would have had two different forms of the bug, the aerosol and the cutaneous.  If Ivins was working covertly, as claimed, why did he go to the trouble to produce two different forms?

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Re: sigh

profwhat.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 06:35:07 PM EST

none

Dude, it's pathetic arguing with someone who won't even do research.  Can't you even get your facts straight?

Sentences like those cannot possibly be written by someone who is seriously interested in discussing the issue, particularly coming from someone who just spent a paragraph trying to explain why the National Enquirer is an enemy of the Bush administration.  So I will save my time and my words: Give me evidence, just one piece of evidence, that supports your argument that the anthrax attacks were official action of the U.S. government.

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okay but just one

thefadd.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 07:59:19 PM EST

4.16 (astute, astute, illiterate)

Give me evidence, just one piece of evidence, that supports your argument that the anthrax attacks were official action of the U.S. government.

They were sent from a government lab.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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Re: sigh

JimmyHavok.

Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 04:32:14 AM EST

none

So, you admit you didn't even read anything I wrote.  Nice!

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Re: stinks like a coverup

thefadd.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 08:10:28 PM EST

none

It does seem odd that a supposed psychopath supposedly bent on getting back at those who he feels have slighted him would take his greatest vengeance out on such a supposedly "unconnected" group of victims. All stories in the media today are so tailored and formulaic even when conveying the most trustworthy of information that it hards to read the tea leaves but perhaps he simply took those connections to his grave. Still, after Hatfill and Richard Jewel it wouldn't shock me at all to see overzealous cops "determined" to get someone after the first screw up.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

11

Silence of the lapdogs

JimmyHavok.

Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:25:38 AM EST

4.00 (interesting, interesting)

Bradblog points out that the media is remarkably silent on the identities of the people the anthrax letters were addressed to, although they generally say things like (New York Times) "The 2001 anthrax mailings were baffling in several ways, not least because the victims -- whether they were chosen or were struck at random -- seemed to have nothing in common."  Never mind that the victims were mostly mail handlers who were exposed in the process of delivering the letters.

Brad spoke with Ivins's brother about what the press was asking him, and discovered that he had no idea who the targets had been, was surprised to learn that they had all been people or organizations identified as enemies by the Bush administration.  Ivins's brother also said that no one had asked him about his brother's political leanings.

If Ivins was the anthrax terrorist, one has to wonder why he targeted The National Enquirer.  On the other hand, if the anthrax terrorist was working for Bush, that question is easily answered, because The Enquirer had published embarrassing cover photos of the Bush twins on at least four occasions, as well as an expose of how the 2000 vote was rigged by Jeb.

2

Pretty painful way to kill yourself

delete me.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 08:45:13 AM EST

none

Acetaminophen ("Tylenol") overdose damages the liver, and it's a painful death. Acetaminophen is also fairly easy to overdose on. Especially if you've been drinking booze a whole lot more because the feds won't get off your ass. 4 grams/24 hours is the maximum recommended dose for a healthy adult; if you're a regular drinker (2+/day), the maximum recommended is half of that. I'm just wondering how big this "massive" dose was, and how much of it was taken at once. I'm assuming Ivens knew pharmaceuticals, he'd know it was a slow death.

- derumi (del-me)
"Bobby Fischer? Man, that guy is crazy!" - Mike Tyson

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Re: Pretty painful way to kill yourself

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:04:57 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

News reports I've seen said he took an overdose of Tylenol with codeine.

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Re: Pretty painful way to kill yourself

delete me.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:24:19 AM EST

none

Yes. I don't know enough about codeine to say whether it'd stop the abdominal pain from an acetaminophen overdose, though. It still wouldn't be an overdose that you'd want your loved ones dealing with, nevermind Ivins' purported psychological profile.

- derumi (del-me)
"Bobby Fischer? Man, that guy is crazy!" - Mike Tyson

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^ 7

Re: Pretty painful way to kill yourself

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:52:25 AM EST

4.50 (informative, informative)

The article didn't say which Tylenol w/codeine he took, but I think a lethal dose of codeine would be 200-300 capsules or so. And it would kill far quicker than the acetaminophen.

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Re: Pretty painful way to kill yourself

pO157.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:59:18 AM EST

none

That's true. Getting high as a kite followed by respiratory arrest would probably be much quicker (and easier to stomach... ha!) than days of liver failure. I think yours is the likely scenario since he was not in the hospital for days. IIRC, didn't some link say somebody called the cops about an "unconscious" person at Dr. Ivins home? If so, this is indicative of the narcotic induced death, rather than a slow drawn out death due to toxicity from liver byproducts.

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Re: Pretty painful way to kill yourself

pO157.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:20:51 AM EST

none

I'm assuming Ivens knew pharmaceuticals, he'd know it was a slow death.

I agree that this is one of the (many) weird aspects about this case. The guy was a pharmacist yet he picked an extremely slow and agonizing way to go. I know he took the Tylenol w/ Codeine formulation so it was probably not as bad as it could have been, but you'd think a PharmD/PhD could have come up with a better way to do it.

4

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Re: Pretty painful way to kill yourself

Lou.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:52:32 AM EST

none

odd though...maybe he is responsible for the deaths and he wanted to punish himself?  No wait...it was reported that he had sociopathic tendencies.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

5

^ 4

Or could it be the Heath Ledger Syndrome?

MayorBob.

Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:56:30 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

Maybe he had a killer headache and overmedicated himself.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

15

Assume it was him

profwhat.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 08:57:14 AM EST

none

The implications of this point to several ways to improve the "war on terrorism."  It re-emphasizes that terrorism is a tactic, and it is a tactic that can be employed by not only radical Muslims but also by sociopaths and nihilists.  To the extent that we can identify groups of people who are likely to employ terrorism, go after them; but we must recognize that we are also in danger of terrorist attacks from ordinary generic screwed-up people.  

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Re: Assume it was him

thefadd.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 08:03:40 PM EST

5.00 (astute, astute)

To the extent that we can identify groups of people who are likely to employ terrorism, go after them; but we must recognize that we are also in danger of terrorist attacks from ordinary generic screwed-up people.

Thus the problem with the "terrorist" label. Despite all the media play, people like the DC snipers, the unabomber and the anthrax mailer don't pose that large of a threat to the general populace and certainly not enough of a threat to do something stupid like surrender civil liberties.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

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I'd agree with you on the Unabomber and Ivins.

MayorBob.

Mon Aug 04, 2008 at 08:09:43 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

But the DC sniper pair were most definitely a very real threat to the general populace.  Who did they target?  Mostly just ordinary people going about their business: people loading stuff they bought at a Home Depot, a school kid outside his public school, people pumping gas into their cars, people going to restaurants, and so on.  The very ordinariness of their victims coupled with the random pattern of their attacks made them a very compelling general threat -- they literally terrorized people in DC and surrounding counties.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: I'd agree with you on the Unabomber and Ivins.

JimmyHavok.

Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 04:34:01 AM EST

none

Was the DC Sniper enough of a threat to get you to give up your civil liberties?

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Re: I'd agree with you on the Unabomber and Ivins.

MayorBob.

Wed Aug 06, 2008 at 05:34:38 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

Ask the people of DC and the surrounding counties that question, Jimmy.  Or, more fairly, ask them which of their civil liberties they might have pondered doing away with just so the sniping attacks would stop.  My point was that the attacks of the Unabomber and the Anthrax mailer were less terroristic because the targets of the attacks were focused and specific.  Had either of them begun detonating high explosives in general public areas, then the public's sense of terror and dread would have kicked up a notch, then perhaps the public discourse would have involved giving up some of their civil liberties in return for stopping the acts.

But the DC sniping victims were all just ordinary people going about their daily lives and the pattern was totally random.  So, yeah, the DC snipers were more in the category of terrorists than the Unabomber and the Anthrax mailer.  And I seem to recall some of the fear and paranoia led to police checkpoints with searches of vehicles at various locations during their reign of terror.  There were voluntary curfews.  There was even a few people calling for the confiscation of firearms by everyone.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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