Business

Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

pO157.

Posted to Business on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 03:10:53 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Hard economic times have hit the country. Of course, not all areas are affected equally, and some localities have been on the downswing for years, even decades. Some were even circling the drain during the boom times of a few years ago. But until now people were unable rank their particular dystopia to others. That problem has been solved thanks to the investigative reporting of Forbes Magazine, which published a list of the Top Ten Fastest Dying US Cities.

Ohio topped the list with four cities, Michigan only had two (Flint, MI and Detroit). Pennsylvania (Scranton, PA), Massachusetts (Springfield), New York (Buffalo) and West Virginia (Charleston) each picked up one.

The problems are the same across the list. High unemployment. The population (or mayor) fleeing in panic. High crime. The end of manufacturing. The graying of society. Houses and buildings sit vacant as taxpaying residents give way to urban malcontents. Seemingly within hours of the list's publication a whine line of politicans, assorted do-gooders and other interested parties began to form, bemoaning the placement of their favorite metropolis on the list. Some pointed to small signs that their neighborhoods were improving, although Forbes held no punches and told it like it was ("Only Pittsburgh and New Orleans have seen sharper population declines this decade, and New Orleans was because of a natural disaster.")

A billionaire and live in an area on the decline? Not to worry. Forbes has also helpfully categorized the best ways to stay safe.  Some suggestions include hiring a $400 an hour ex-navy SEAL, or getting trained attack dogs. If that doesn't work then you can always go for the $15,000 taser wielding death robot.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by pO157, urban decay, urban blight, FAIL (all tags)

This story: 67 comments (2 from subqueue)
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1

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

thefadd.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 04:21:13 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

One place that frequently makes these lists is Camden, NJ. Like just about all these places except maybe Buffalo, Camden is a mid sized (and not large) city. The root of a lot of its problems then can be traced to back 50-100 years when cities like Los Angeles and Philadelphia were expanding to incorporate the areas around them. This gave them a solid long term tax base. And even though Philadelphia and LA have many problems of their own, they're not in danger of dying out altogether. Camden, meanwhile, never expanded so while it suffers, nearby Cherry Hill flourished and became a city-burb--a suburban town that eclipses many small and mid-sized cities in population and economic output.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

14

^ 1

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

pO157.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:09:33 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Well if you want to get technical, Buffalo used to be a large city and a pretty influential place back in The Day. Presidents got their start (or their ending) in Buffalo. Then due to various things, the city started going downhill. One good thing about over 50 years of double digit negative growth is that the infrastructure was built for a city of half to 3/4ths of a million, but since Buffalo is now way under 300,000 you'll seldom get in a traffic jam.

And the nice thing about negative growth, abandonment of downtown by businesses and such is that you could shoot an artillery piece off down main street at night on some nights without hitting anybody. Well, at least anybody important. Personally I think there is a real chance to buy up entire blocks of abandoned neighborhoods and turn it into an urban paintball centre for keyboard commandos. We could even market to survivalists by getting a printing press and ginning up some flyers and fake newspapers with headlines like "ZOMBIES RISE FROM THE DEAD! MAYOR FLEES IN PANIC!" or "MUTANT MUMPS PLAGUE CONTINUES TO KILL THOUSANDS!" then dumping them around the site. Anybody want to go in with me on this?

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Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

thefadd.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 02:08:57 PM EST

none

Absolutely. Give me about six months to raise the funds. That should cost what seven or eight whole dollars?

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

35

^ 34

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

pO157.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 03:14:10 PM EST

none

Probably, since you can usually buy these 'homes' for a dollar on the auction block. I think a bigger cost would be liability insurance since these areas tend to be sue happy.

2

^ 1

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

port1080.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 04:26:41 PM EST

none

Like just about all these places except maybe Buffalo, Camden is a mid sized (and not large) city.

Detroit could hardly be called mid-size.  For all its problems, it's one of the top fifteen cities (ranks around 12, give or take) in the US, in terms of size.  

3

^ 2

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

thefadd.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 04:41:08 PM EST

none

Them too.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

4

^ 1

Is it always resources and history?

pO157.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 05:24:24 PM EST

none

You cannot annex surrounding areas forever. Or is it leadership? Why not blame the electorate for putting less than qualified people into office? If they elect and then re-elect incompetent or corrupt leaders then who else do the people have to blame for their hijinx?

It's probably both.

5

^ 4

Re: Is it always resources and history?

thefadd.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 05:47:37 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

I hardly think what these places suffer from is continual failure in governance. They're all old north eastern cities. Maybe they ought to be left?

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

15

^ 5

Re: Is it always resources and history?

pO157.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:12:27 AM EST

none

There were economic reasons why people left the cities over the past century. That is obvious. However, if you look at the leadership of a lot of these places it leaves much to be desired. It is unlikely that Camden or Buffalo or whatever will reach its old prominence, so why not get some mayors in there who are willing to work with what they have?

Instead the voters seem to put in folks who bring the same old same old and continue the downward spiral. Of course this could be a side effect of the more educated wealthier people leaving and the remaining residents being unable to think longterm.

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Re: surprise, surprise

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:28:33 AM EST

none

From Camden, NJ's Wikipedia page:

Camden has historically been a stronghold of the Democratic Party.

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^ 16

Re: surprise, surprise

pO157.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 08:53:43 AM EST

none

As has Buffalo. There is no need for a minority leader on the city council because all 9 members hail from the Dem party.

No matter which organization it is, single party rule is ALWAYS a bad thing.

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Re: surprise, surprise

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 10:58:32 AM EST

none

No matter which organization it is, single party rule is ALWAYS a bad thing
No matter which organization? Of the "ten worst cities," nine are run by Democrats, and the tenth, Charleston, WV has been run by a Republican mayor for the past five years after 32 years of rule by Democrats.

Now, I don't want to conflate correlation with causation, but don't you see a pattern emerging here?

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Re: surprise, surprise

pO157.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 11:07:52 AM EST

none

You are correct. We obviously need to trust the GOP with control of the executive and legislative branches at every level. They do such a better job, as we saw during the first term of Bush '43.

20

^ 19

Re: surprise, surprise

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 12:15:44 PM EST

none

Bush is not a mayor.

22

^ 20

Re: surprise, surprise

MayorBob.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 12:35:39 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant)

Only because he probably couldn't get elected dog catcher in most cities.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

21

^ 20

Re: surprise, surprise

pO157.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 12:34:44 PM EST

none

I wish he was just a mayor. Then maybe our country wouldn't be as screwed up.

25

^ 18

Re: surprise, surprise

JimmyHavok.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 05:03:00 PM EST

none

You seem to be blaming local governments for the off-shoring of American manufacturing jobs.  Perhaps you are assigning them more power than they actually have?

If your thesis,that local Democratic rule is responsible for the failure of these cities, then there ought to be other cities in the same circumstances (that is to say, dependent on failing industries for their economic base) who have Republican or mixed government and are succeeding.

26

^ 25

Who's really to blame?

Lou.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 06:32:15 PM EST

3.00 (informative)

It's the workers with their greedy selves not wanting to work for 35 cents an hour like their overseas brethren.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

27

^ 25

Re: surprise, surprise

zyxwvutsr.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 02:25:49 PM EST

none

You seem to be blaming local governments for the off-shoring of American manufacturing jobs
I "seem" to be? Well, I'm not. State governments deserve some blame for that, but not city governments in general. (There are some specific cases where city governments are to blame for a decline in manufacturing, but I can't think of any in the cities we're discussing here.)

If your thesis,that local Democratic rule is responsible for the failure of these cities...
Please go back and reread my comments, james. I merely noted that Democratic leadership was attendant to economic decline in large US cities. Do you deny that fact? If not, do you have an explanation for that clear, indeed overwhelming, trend?

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^ 27

Re: surprise, surprise

JimmyHavok.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 05:27:15 PM EST

none

Have some guts.

Anyway, one explanation is that the voters of those cities realize that the Republican "devil take the hindmost" philosophy of economics won't help them when they are in dire straits, and therefore they elect Democrats.

29

^ 28

Re: surprise, surprise

zyxwvutsr.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 06:01:12 PM EST

none

...voters of those cities realize...
Those voters are obviously educated and wise.

...therefore they elect Democrats
After forty years with no signs of improvement I have to admit that I am awed by their faith. Not by their common sense, but certainly by their faith.

30

^ 29

I guess you think you're clever.

JimmyHavok.

Sun Aug 17, 2008 at 09:56:26 PM EST

none

Are you blaming the city governments for the larger trends that are affecting the post-industrial America, or not?  Make up your mind.

31

^ 30

Re: I guess you think you're literate.

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 08:39:18 AM EST

none

Are you blaming the city governments for the larger trends that are affecting the post-industrial America, or not?
Refer to comment #27 where I wrote, "State governments deserve some blame for that, but not city governments in general."

Do I need to be more clear than that?

32

^ 31

Clarity

Lou.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:25:02 AM EST

5.00 (informative)

-After forty years with no signs of improvement

-Camden has historically been a stronghold of the Democratic Party.

-Now, I don't want to conflate correlation with causation, but don't you see a pattern emerging here?

-State governments deserve some blame for that, but not city governments in general.

-I merely noted that Democratic leadership was attendant to economic decline in large US cities.

Do I need to be more clear than that?

Nope...I'd say your position is very clear.  

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

33

^ 32

Re: Clarity

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:45:17 AM EST

none

Nope...I'd say your position is very clear
See, Jimmy? It's not hard to understand.

36

^ 33

Re: Clarity

JimmyHavok.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 05:11:40 PM EST

none

Oh, I understand your position perfectly.  You want to say something indefensible, and you don't want to try to defend it.  So you'll keep saying it over and over, while denying that you're saying it.

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^ 36

Re: Clarity

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 08:12:54 PM EST

none

You want to say something indefensible, and you don't want to try to defend it
Why should I need to defend a simple fact? The worst cities in the US have governments run by the Democratic Party. Do you deny that?

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^ 37

Re: Clarity

thefadd.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 09:25:35 PM EST

none

Most major cities have a Democrat in charge--Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, New York (former Dem, former Rep, now indie), Houston...so I don't see your point.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

40

^ 38

Re: Clarity

JimmyHavok.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:28:09 PM EST

none

I think maybe his point is that when people are actually close enough to Republicans to see them (as in the case of municipal government), they find it very hard to vote for them.

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^ 38

Re: Clarity

joshv.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:28:49 PM EST

none

Yeah, but Mayor Daley II here in Chicago doesn't really count.  City government (at least effective city government) is, of necessity, very business friendly.  Daley pays lip-service to progressive, populist concerns, but when the rubber hits the road, it's all about business.  Witness Daley's veto of a "big box" minimum wage law that would have effectively locked most big box stores out of Chicago.

39

^ 37

Re: Clarity

JimmyHavok.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 10:26:00 PM EST

none

...and despite repeating over and over that you mean nothing by the observation, you keep repeating it.

People in cities elect Democrats because they prefer its philosophy of government as public service to the Republican's philosophy of government as bribe-generator.

6

^ 1

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 06:32:51 PM EST

none

...even though Philadelphia...have many problems of their own, they're not in danger of dying out altogether
How can you so cavalierly dismiss the appalling human rights situation in Philadelphia?! You monster!

7

^ 6

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

ms sue.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 06:45:36 PM EST

4.00 (funny, funny)

You seem to be a bit bent out of shape over the response to you there. Oh, well, whadda ya gonna do?  

8

^ 7

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 06:57:34 PM EST

5.00 (informative, offtopic)

Bent out of shape? On the contrary; I am endlessly amused by it.

9

^ 6

I love Escher also.

MayorBob.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 07:08:09 PM EST

none

Only I love his work as pieces of art, how the landscapes and the forms fold in on themselves in seemingly neverending series of loops.  I never thought it might be able to do that with dialog on a web site.  And all with an overwhelming sense of insouciance.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

10

^ 9

Re: I love Escher also.

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 07:10:51 PM EST

none

Levity, MAYOR. It's levity.

11

^ 10

Re: I love Escher also.

MayorBob.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 07:12:12 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

But a very insouciant levity, KEN.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

24

The Resurgence!

pO157.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 12:54:59 PM EST

5.00 (brilliant, astute)

All complaining and stories about Friendly Neighborhood Arsonists aside, I think the American Inner City is going to make a come back over the next few years/decades. Fuel is (still) over $4 a gallon, and costs to commute are ridiculous. Americans are getting tired of long drives, high suburban cost of living, and uncertain property value trends.

With the advent of the Charter School (the poor man's private school) and mass transit some cities are looking better and better to people tired of driving 2 hours each way from bedroom communities in their gas guzzling SUVs. I think some people would be willing to return to small, safer enclaves or neighborhoods in cities (especially families without young children) given the cheaper housing, lower commute time and costs and closer services.

Of course, this will require careful city planning and good leadership. Bulldozing vacant tenements, cutting down on crime, and responsive local government are critical for this to be successful and attract high value residents. It is not unreasonable to say that some cities can shrink their way to prosperity but it has to be done right.

41

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

joshv.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 11:13:33 PM EST

5.00 (interesting, astute)

Considering the fact that you can buy an entire city block of Detroit for a song, and the fact the price of farm land is going through the roof, driven by biofuel subsidies - how long is it going to be before some bright ecopreneur buys up vast swaths of these cities and converts the land back to farmland?  Sure, it would require some zoning changes, but I am sure the city councils will soon be willing to do just about anything to get some property taxes flowing into the coffers.

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Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

Lou.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 08:01:55 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

That sounds like something I did once in SimCity.  Getting the counselors to change the ordinances was surprisingly easy...since I was the city's Dictator!  Bhwahahahahahahah!

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

44

^ 41

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

skeeter1.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 09:22:07 PM EST

none

"how long is it going to be before some bright ecopreneur buys up vast swaths of these cities and converts the land back to farmland?"

We've got huge patches of now-vacant land here in Cleveland, many along Chester Ave., that I wouldn't mind seeing turned into farmland.  The problem (I think) is that the property owners are holding out waiting to sell it to Cleveland Clinic or University Hospital, Cleveland's two largest employers.  Why plant soy beans on it if you can get a million bucks instead?  

Inner-city agriculture is a great idea, but it's never going to fly.  

there's only one way to find out...

48

^ 44

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

pO157.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:31:10 PM EST

5.00 (funny, brilliant)

Inner-city agriculture is a great idea, but it's never going to fly.  

Oh come on, it's flying already. It's very successful and you probably live by an inner city agriculture operation. Right now.

Last summer I found I used to live a few blocks away from one after a rival group of.... farmers... burned it to the ground. I imagine there are still a bunch within walking distance.

Heck, when I lived out west in a very rural area I had a friend who had a residential agriculture operation. Of course, since it could fit inside a closet it was probably more of a 'victory garden.' But still. The point is city based agriculture is alive and well.

45

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Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

joshv.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:05:04 AM EST

none

"Why plant soy beans on it if you can get a million bucks instead? "

Because health care is the next bubble - well, that or education, not sure which is going to pop first.  Regardless, I think the exigencies of feeding urban populations are going to trump the need for expensive MRIs in the coming years.

46

^ 45

health bubble?

JimmyHavok.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:57:22 AM EST

none

The premise that health care is the next bubble discounts all the customers about to come on line.  Sure, there might be some overrun in anticipation, but the solid revenue base is there.

47

^ 46

Re: health bubble?

joshv.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:59:31 AM EST

none

I define a bubble market as any market where the average price consistently outpaces inflation, for an extended period of time.  Such trends cannot last, as incomes aren't increasing enough to allow people to afford whatever product is so bubblicious.  Health care is obviously such a bubble - it doesn't matter that the customer base is exploding, if they can't afford it.

49

How walkable is your shithole?

pO157.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:35:02 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

My sister sent me this fun little tool. You type in your address and it tells you how "walkable" your neighborhood is. Mine has a score of 15/100 which means a car is a requirement. Odd, because I walk a few miles to the train station every morning.

I think there may be bugs in the tool because my grandpa's home, which is in a tiny rural village of about 9,000 (which I think is inflated) scores an 87. And his house is bounded by a US Highway and Conrail train line. So yeah.

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^ 49

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

ms sue.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:36:29 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

My sister sent me this fun little tool. You type in your address and it tells you how "walkable" your neighborhood is.

After my initial euphoria (83 score) wore off, I took a look at the sidebar that details the amenities nearby. I wonder when it was last updated and/or verified.

I'm afraid that at least in my case, this site is full of shit. We don't have an Imax, and I've never heard of the hardware store listed ("Dirt Yard LLC"???).

63

^ 62

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

delete me.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 02:07:20 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

For some reason, they're missing the long-time Albertson's grocery store that's a half mile from my house, but they've made sure to include the various newer grocery/convenience stores that are a mile away. At least there's a method for adding missing places to the site.

- derumi (del-me)
"Bobby Fischer? Man, that guy is crazy!" - Mike Tyson

67

^ 62

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

JimmyHavok.

Tue Aug 26, 2008 at 09:43:51 PM EST

none

I noticed that the nearest movie theater to my in-law's house wasn't listed.  Most everything else was, though (all 2.5 miles away).  And the local karate dojo was listed under "schools."

50

^ 49

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

port1080.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:46:00 PM EST

none

Odd, because I walk a few miles to the train station every morning.

Maybe they discount the score based on your likelihood of getting shot in a drive-by?  In which case, I think that score of 15/100 is spot on.  My house is a 50/100, which is probably about right.  There's plenty of stuff in walking distance, but not much in the way of sidewalks or pedestrian right of ways.

51

^ 49

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

MayorBob.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 01:47:20 PM EST

none

Mine scored a .45, which still put it in the "worse" category. The odd thing I found about the tool is that it only measured distance from stuff in as the crow flies terms. It measured .59 miles to the nearest food store and I know if I walk the shortest distance between my house and the food store (because some of the neighbors get cranky when you trespass on their property) it actually measures around .8 miles. It also measured the same distance to the nearest public park. But to get to go in that distance, you'd have to commit to a mad dash across I-95; not my idea of a healthy stroll. Walking the shortest distance to the park is more along the lines of 2.2 miles. Lastly, the closest clothes store to me is something called "Jilbab for Islam" which I'm really not thinking about turning into my couturier.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

52

^ 49

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

ms sue.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 03:54:42 PM EST

none

Hey, thanks for that link. We moved almost four years ago and apparently gained 52 points. Very cool.

53

^ 49

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

JimmyHavok.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 05:12:38 PM EST

none

Nice! My current location is a 74 (although I think it should be better, since we're only a mile from downtown), while the place I am moving to is a 24 (boo) and the house I grew up in is a 23 (boo).  Frankly, I think my family home should have gotten a better score, since most amenities are a mile away, whereas the new place is a good 2+ miles from anything...probably got a better score because of the single restaurant half a block away.

The new place isn't even a good bicycling location, because of the intense hills and high-speed traffic of the area.

54

^ 49

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

Lou.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:37:52 PM EST

none

Not bad...my neighborhood scored a 68.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

55

^ 54

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

ivyafire.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:45:37 PM EST

none

I'm guessing an 8 out of 100 confirms that I do indeed live in the boonies?

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

56

^ 55

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

Lou.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:41:42 PM EST

none

I'm guessing quite the opposite.  With my 68, I have several restaurants, a grocery store (albeit an expensive natural version), a drug store, two gyms, and three gas stations/convenience stores, I have it pretty good.  You must have it better.  If you lived really far out in the boonies (a low score), you would have either a great distance to get to these amenities, or be bounded by pedestrian hostile roadways aka p0's shithole.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

57

^ 56

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

T Slothrop.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 01:01:52 AM EST

none

Dude, she wrote "8", not "80". :)

{Insert amusing quotation here}

58

^ 57

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

ivyafire.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 01:47:41 AM EST

none

yup.  It's an 8.  

We have very little nearby and a lousy public transit system.

80 would be like a real city with restaurants and shopping, and maybe even a police force.  ;)

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

59

^ 57

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

Lou.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 07:04:09 AM EST

none

um, yeah...I knew that.  Pretty funny joke, eh?

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

60

^ 55

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

port1080.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 07:19:13 AM EST

none

My parents score a 0 out of 100.  Not kidding.  They win.

61

^ 60

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

MayorBob.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 09:00:59 AM EST

4.00 (funny, funny)

Someday you'll just have to get them brought back from Devil's Island.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

64

^ 60

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

ivyafire.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 02:33:46 PM EST

none

Wow.  Where do they live?

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

65

^ 64

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

port1080.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 02:44:50 PM EST

none

Central Pennsylvania...about as far away from anything as you can get in central PA.  It's not quite as bad as it seems...since they're equally far from everything, they're also equally close to quite a few larger towns.  They're about a 20 minute drive from 3 different relatively decent size (10,000 plus people) urban areas with plenty of shopping, cultural opportunities, etc.   There's absolutely no retail at all within walking distance, though.  There are a few things you might bike to, if you can handle the hills.  The post office is the closest, and it's about 3 miles away.  There's a small town with a pizza shop and a hardware store that's about 4.5 miles away.  That's about it.

66

^ 65

Re: How walkable is your shithole?

ivyafire.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 05:54:26 PM EST

none

Interesting.

We're about 2 miles from a pizza place that sucks, a hardware store and a post office that has no available PO Boxes.

There is an overpriced gas station and a gift shop that put in PO Boxes to handle the overflow, and a liquor store that has a few very overpriced groceries that generally rot because nobody buys them except people who are desperate.

A small grocery store opened in the last 6 months, which has helped out some, but for most of us buying groceries means a 2 hour drive to the bigger towns where Costco, Safeway, and Hellmart are.

There is a bus that comes through our town at 6 AM going to the Kona, it returns at 5 PM.  If you miss it, you can hitchhike.

I'm assuming the little grocery store is what pushed us up to 8 instead of 0.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

12

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

tomc.

Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 11:32:41 PM EST

none

But until now people were unable rank their particular dystopia to others. That problem has been solved thanks to the investigative reporting of Forbes Magazine

When things aren't going so well, it's always fun to have a contest.

13

^ 12

Re: Hooray! Our Dystopian Shithole is not #1!

pO157.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 07:54:19 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

When things aren't going so well, it's always fun to have a contest.

Isn't that the truth? My parents are always trying to organize their neighborhood for whatever reason. When I make my usual phone calls to them to find out how things are going my dad usually goes off along the lines of "ZOMG! Somebody dumped construction debris in the alley!" or in the case of the latest crime wave... ROGUE TEENAGERS ARE STEALING VALVE STEMS OFF RESIDENTS CARS!

I respond with the latest hilarity over here (retarded arsonist, SWAT Team at the clothing drive, etc) and am usually met with something fatuous like a vague story about how my mom's car was approached by a panhandler... after dark!

Next time I call my parents I think I'll suggest they move to Detroit so they could start topping my amusing anecdotes.

23

My little Shithole

skeeter1.

Sat Aug 16, 2008 at 12:39:19 PM EST

none

"So far this decade, 115,000 people have left Cleveland"

I live just outside of Cleveland, and am all too aware that it's been going down the tubes for years.  On the other hand, it still has some great museums, one of the best orchestras performing in the newly-renovated Severance Hall, the Westside market, many cultural centers (the Feast of the Assumption is going on in little Italy this weekend), Slavic village, Chinatown, and part of the street I'm just off of is likely going to be declared Ukranian Village.  

Old steeltown/rust-belt cities have seen better days, but the people, change of seasons (I like fall the best), keep me here.  I can think of worse places to live.  

there's only one way to find out...

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