Etcetera

Texas Homeowners Association Declares War On Pickups

MayorBob.

Posted to Etcetera on Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 03:31:40 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

The idea behind having a homeowners' association (HOA) seems to be positive. That idea is founded on the concept that more can get done for a community if it forms one united voice. Sometimes that one united voice does good things, like negotiate for snow removal or police patrolling. Other times it ends up being the voice of uncontrolled authority joined by arbitrary and petty ideas of what fits in and what doesn't. So it is with one Texas HOA which has seen fit to declare war on the pick-up truck.

Stonebriar is a upscale gated community with houses listed for sale between (US)$350K and close to $1.5 million. The community lies in the town of Frisco, just about 15 miles north of Dallas. Jim Greenwood recently bought a Ford F150 pick-up truck and made the mistake of thinking he could park it in his driveway. Nope, said the Stonebriar HOA which told him he was in violation of the rules. Seems the rules and regs of the HOA say pick-up trucks can't be parked where they can be seen from the street. Not that the HOA is opposed to anything other than a sedan or coupe from being parked on the street. The HOA specifically allows Escalades, Hummers and Lincoln Mark LTs to be parked in the open.

Greenwood essentially says, "now wait a minute" and wants to know what's the difference between a Ford F150 and a Lincoln Mark LT? The answer from the HOA is basically, the type of people who would buy either vehicle. Apparently, the HOA believes a better class of people own Lincolns. Besides, HOA board member Bill Osborn says:

"The high-end vehicles that are allowed are plush with amenities and covers on the back. It doesn't look like a pickup. It's fancier."
The public reaction to the HOA's position on blogs, the main link and elsewhere has run the gamut. There are those who openly wonder why anyone would like in a gated community or move into a neighborhood bound by rules made by an HOA. There are those suggesting that Greenwood ought to think about a lawsuit or at least complaining to the state Attorney General. There are those on the Stonebriar HOA board who note that other F150 owners manage to park their pick-ups in their garage just fine. Then, there are others who suggest the way out for Greenwood might be "if we don't like it, we can move."

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by MayorBob, homeowners' association, Texas, restriction, restricted covenants, real estate, Ford F150 (all tags)

This story: 24 comments (2 from subqueue)
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1

Never understood HOAs...

port1080.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 03:40:08 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

When my wife and I were shopping for a house we specifically avoided any place that had a restrictive HOA or a "community maintenance fee" or any crap like that (which, in northern Delaware, at least, does severely limit one's options).  Why would you move out of an apartment and into a place that you will never truly own, because of all the fees you'll have to pay even long after your mortgage is paid off?  Why would you move into a place that will restrict what you're allowed to do with your property?  It's nuts.  Someone who lives in a deed restricted area, please explain it to me.

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

MayorBob.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:41:31 AM EST

5.00 (informative)

I think you're confusing deed restrictions with homeowner's associations. I would encourage you to read the deed to your property; you might be amazed at what it contains. Our deed contains restrictions but none of them are what I would call onerous. The most notable one prohibits me from constructing a smelter on my premises. Apparently, back when the plot of farmland our development was located on was constructed back in the late 40s and early 50s, smelting businesses would pop up all over northern New Castle County. Or perhaps the developer just hated the idea of smelting. There is also a restriction on keeping farm animals on my property. Once again, not a big concern as far as I can see. Of course, any deed restriction which is in direct violation of the law, such as those infamous restrictive covenants saying that people of color are prohibited from owning property are almost universally violated and, if they were challenged, would be ruled out.

As to the business of homeowner's associations, there are two types. The first type is typically set up by the real estate developer, allowing him to control spread of the property. Because he has a financial interest in ensuring the properties that are as yet unsold are kept in an attractive state, it might stipulate the types of improvements a homeowner can construct on their property, how close to the road a fence can be constructed, etc. These usually end up reverting to a neighborhood association by the time the developer has sold the last unit.

Neighborhood associations are the predominate type of associations in mature neighborhoods (at least up in northern New Castle County). Our subdivision has one (actually we are one third of a neighborhood association made up of adjoining subdivisions). It is still active (I served as a neighborhood rep for five years) and it isn't nearly the nefarious, overbearing sort of organization they have in Stonebriar). Here is some of what has been done as a neighborhood association: 1. We sign up an annual contract for snow removal with a local company. Anytime the snowfall exceeds three inches, a snow plow scrapes the snow away from the roadway. And it returns for every three inches more in snowfall we experience for single storms. That is a flat annual fee and is paid for out of the annual neighborhood association fee ($10 -- cheap in my opinion). 2. We have negotiated a discounted rate for neighborhood residents for waste removal services. This is paid directly by the household to the waste removal service and not out of neighborhood association fees. All I can say is the amount I pay for that service is 15% less than what I used to pay before we cut the deal. 3. When the roads in our neighborhood became a bit frayed, we were able to lobby with our state representative to get DelDOT to come out and regrade and repave the roads. While the private firm which was doing this work was there they caught a good bit of additional business from homeowners who were eager to have their driveways redone, all reportedly a lot cheaper than if they had called up a driveway service to come out and do the job. 4. We canvassed and got the names of five households per block who were interested in getting natural gas, as opposed to electricity or oil, to heat their homes. Having those five names per block meant that the utility provider agreed to lay the pipeline at no cost to the recipient house (which was the terms if you tried to do it individually). Just a few examples of why having a neighborhood association isn't really a bad thing. In all my years of living in this neighborhood (going on 29) I don't think I've ever heard a single issue arise at any of the meetings regarding sticking the association's nose where it didn't belong or proposing some arbitrary rule of behavior on the part of any of the residents.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

T Slothrop.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 09:32:16 AM EST

none

Yet again, more proof of how widely this varies by state.

Everything you mentioned above getting deals on through your HOA is a government service here. Yeah we pay for it - probably more than you pay, even - through county and town property taxes. But at least for my property tax dollar I get garbage and yard waste removal service, snow plowing, and street maintenance There are no "private" streets here. Once a developer is finished with a project, the streets within it are turned over to local government by law. Where natural gas lines do and don't get run is negotiated between the utility and the town or county.

The deed restriction thing is another regional variance. Here in NC, almost all the restrictions and covenants were designed to keep property out of the hands of African Americans. Once the state courts started striking those down in the 1950's, the enforceability of any restriction began to be called into question, and gradually through the 1960s they disappeared as attorneys just stopped copying the restrictions segments when properties changed hands. Interestingly, about the only types of covenants and restrictions deemed still enforceable here are the ones regarding HOAs.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

port1080.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 10:18:45 AM EST

5.00 (informative)

Yet again, more proof of how widely this varies by state.

Delaware is something of an odd case.  Most of northern Delaware (the most densely populated part of the state) is unincorporated and has no local government other than at the county level (and New Castle County, where we both live, has an odd population mix combined with a geographic division - the Delaware Canal - which combines to make county government somewhat schizophrenic and ineffective).  So, there's no city/borough/township to take care of those services.  Partly because of this, partly because of Delaware post-war housing boom, the northern part of the state (and increasingly the rest of the state) is made up of little (or not so little) self-contained developments that just have one or two access roads to a major highway.  Hence the "need" for HOAs to take over some of those local government services.  The flip side is, taxes are pretty low.  Unless you live in Wilmington or Newark, there're no local taxes at all, really, other than property taxes (which are used to fund the schools, and are themselves pretty low).  Personally, I'd much rather have some kind of local government with actual elected officials and regularized public procedures, even if it did mean somewhat higher taxes.  If I could have afforded it, my wife & I would have bought a house in one of the incorporated areas, but in both cases the decent housing was priced outside what we could afford (and the cheap housing is just plain scary), so we ended up buying in an unincorporated area in one of the older developments (dating from the 1920s, before HOAs were common).  We do have a few deed restrictions, but they're mostly either outdated (like the Mayor's smelter restriction) or invalid (like the "no blacks" clause).

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

ivyafire.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 06:11:01 PM EST

5.00 (informative, informative)

From what I'm seeing, they can write in anything they want, even after the fact.

It looks like you can almost manage to have fun with them if you work at it, though if you follow all the links it looks like the resulting legal battles can costing a lot more than the homeowner may anticipate.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

T Slothrop.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:20:19 AM EST

none

The guy who moved his car into his garage with the boot on and then called the cops AND the towing company is my new hero.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

ivyafire.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 02:35:49 PM EST

none

Yeah, I thought that was pretty funny, but apparently they eventually beat him in court somehow and he ended up selling all his cars to pay his court costs. :(

At least it looks that way if you follow all the links to the end and read all the sites that talk about it.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

JimmyHavok.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 05:53:51 PM EST

none

It's really hard to find a new development here in Honolulu that doesn't have an HOA, and some of them have really crazy rules, like restrictions on what plants you can have in your yard and what color you can paint your house.  One HOA even has a crazy restriction on roof gutters, so all the yards are rutted at the drip line.  Generally, the developer has control of the association until every unit is sold, then it is handed over to the bug-fuck craziest people in the neighborhood.

We got a newsletter from my in-law's HOA a couple of weeks ago, and there was a proposal to dissolve it on the table.  It only failed because there is a property owner in the area who wants to put in high-density housing on the last open plot, and the HOA is the only thing standing in his way.

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

ivyafire.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 07:16:40 PM EST

none

As much as I hate HOAs, they do serve to prevent your neighbors from building a tent city on their property like they have a mile down the road from us, or from making their front yard a dump, which is fairly common here on the Big Island.

It always cracks me up to hear someone going on about how much they respect nature here when their front yard has 6 junked cars in it surrounded by old toilets.   I'm sure it has an effect on the property values in their neighborhood.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

4

^ 3

Varies by state/muni

T Slothrop.

Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 08:25:42 PM EST

4.50 (informative, astute)

You raise an interesting issue. Evidently from what I have read HOA's in many states are used to make up for deficiencies in local zoning ordinances.

Here in NC, most counties have fairly comprehensive, all-encompassing zoning regulations. I don't have to worry about someone building a tent city in my neighborhood because the zoning classification is very strict: no more than one fully-detached single-family residential structure per half acre. Period. No apartments, no duplexes, no tiny yards even. And certainly no businesses of any type. Home offices are only allowed if clients are met off site. And it is the county government that administers all this, so there is no problem with the ordinances being changed randomly because Gladys down the way and her bridge-playing cronies got a wild hair up their asses about satellite dishes. Likewise, there are municipal ordinances about household appliances in yards, junked cars in yards, even maximum allowable grass height.

There are HOA's here, especially in mcmansion-infested gated developments. However home-buyers don't have to search out developments with HOA's just to protect their basic property values. I think that is a function best served by local governments anyway.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

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Re: Varies by state/muni

ivyafire.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 02:04:19 AM EST

none

Yes, it's kind of a free-for-all here.

Anything goes.  There are no trailer parks, but you see everything from yurts to tents to shacks.

We even had some people down the road living in a tent with a grill outside and a junked car that they used as a living/dining room outdoors for a while.  They must have been squatters, because there's a family there now with a house they just built.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

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Re: Varies by state/muni

JimmyHavok.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 03:34:56 AM EST

none

I'm intimately familiar with what you speak of.  My sister lives in a very nice house she built herself, in Volcano, but over the years she has lived in a wide variety of makeshift shelters ranging from tents to a dome made out of waiwi covered with a few layers of plastic.  The cutest one was a platform built on the stumps of a stand of ohia that someone had cut down.  She cut them off even and nailed her floor joists to them, then put a roof and short walls of corrugated iron on the platform.  Very cozy in the Fern Forest rain...

My brother lives in a shack built out of scavenged lumber in Orchid Estates.

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Re: Varies by state/muni

ivyafire.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 02:24:02 PM EST

none

Yup.  And some people build a nice little home, while others put up multiple shacks and gradually acquire a junkyard.  Unless you are the last person to move into your neighborhood, you don't know which type your neighbors will be until after the fact.

There's another tiny home nearby, owner-built, that is very nice, maybe 3 rooms, completely surrounded by trees.  You can only see it from 1 spot in the road if you know where to look, but even so, there isn't a speck of junk in the yard.   Still further is a home that started as a metal garage the people lived in while they built the house.  Again, no junk scattered in the yard.

The difference is, these people take pride in their homes and don't junk up the surrounding exterior, while the 'tent cities' I mentioned earlier seem to show a lack of pride in their ownership.  Sort of like showing up for a job interview or a date in dirty clothes.  A big who cares?    

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

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Re: Varies by state/muni

JimmyHavok.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 04:16:37 PM EST

none

A lot of people move to the Big Island because it's the cheapest land available.  Many of them start sketchy and get sketchier.

I guess that's the price of living in the Wild West.

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Re: Varies by state/muni

ivyafire.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 05:02:29 PM EST

none

It's funny you use that phrase.

I almost ended my post with 'it's the wild west out here.'  lol

It truly is a different world.  In many ways it's wonderful, but there are a lot of strange rangers, too.
We are fortunate our neighbors are all fairly normal, but we don't have to travel very far to run into some interesting folks I wouldn't want to piss off. ;)

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

skeeter1.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 10:02:38 PM EST

none

"Someone who lives in a deed restricted area, please explain it to me."

Just about all of them have some sort of deed restrictions.  Where I live (Parma, OH), we have restrictions on what size, type, and where you're allowed to put up fencing, for example.  

Pickup trucks and SUVs are predominant around here (blue-collar town), but I just have a car, and I park it in the garage.  It amazes me how many people have so much shit in their garage that they can't park in it.  Their cars are either in the driveway or on the street, waiting to be vandalized or stolen.  Most of the houses have storage sheds (I tore mine down years ago), and those are packed, too.  Just amazing.  

I'm not about to pay HOA fees, and I've got nothing against pickup trucks, but I understand why they wouldn't want to look at them all day, every day.  

there's only one way to find out...

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

T Slothrop.

Tue Aug 19, 2008 at 11:30:45 PM EST

none

I've got nothing against pickup trucks, but I understand why they wouldn't want to look at them all day, every day.
 
There seems to be a contradiction buried in there somewhere. In other words, it sounds like you do have something against pickup trucks. Why is looking at a truck inherently more difficult or more stressful or more whatever than looking at some eurotrash sports sedan "all day, every day"?

The persona you've created here on TnT is usually pretty laid-back and kind of retro, skeeter1. This statement seems a little out of place coming from you.

I'm not trying to start anything. I just really don't get it. I live right on the border of urban New South and rural Old South, but even on the urban side of the border, pickups are almost as common as sedans for purely passenger vehicles. The idea that a $30k truck is somehow lower class than a $20k sedan is just plain foreign here, as I suspect it is in most of the south, midwest, and far west (except maybe for the coast), even in most of the cities.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

skeeter1.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 03:37:22 AM EST

none

"Why is looking at a truck inherently more difficult or more stressful or more whatever than looking at some eurotrash sports sedan "all day, every day"?

The persona you've created here on TnT is usually pretty laid-back and kind of retro, skeeter1. This statement seems a little out of place coming from you."

I guess I poorly stated my point.  I wasn't trying to be anti-pickup truck, but rather the people who have so much crap in their garage (and all homes around here have them) that they park all of their vehicles (some as many as 5) either in the driveway or on the street.  When a car is parked in front of my mailbox, I don't get mail that day.  That's what peeves me, not the type of vehicle.  I don't care if it's a Toyota Prius or a Ford F-350, but when they take over the street, that's where I have a problem.  I've contacted my council-woman, and was basically told "there's nothing we can do about it".  

I'm not against pickup trucks, for sure, but rather the people taking up public space because they can't (or won't) use their garage for vehicle storage.

there's only one way to find out...

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Word of advice.

MayorBob.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 08:49:25 AM EST

none

Call the postmaster and complain about your home delivery. If the postman is too damned lazy to get his butt out of his vehicle to go over to your mailbox to stick the mail in, he or she needs to have an attitude adjustment from his supervisor. Not that this will help at all with your area beautification, but if people are parking in front of your property to your disadvantage, you might want to use the time-honored Philly method of reserving a parking spot -- place a lawn chair where you don't want someone to park.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Word of advice.

skeeter1.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 11:44:11 PM EST

none

"If the postman is too damned lazy to get his butt out of his vehicle to go over to your mailbox to stick the mail in, he or she needs to have an attitude adjustment from his supervisor."

MayorBob, I've tried that, and was basically told "So what?"  It's not uncommon for us to go several days without mail pickup or delivery.  Just today, the mailman tore the annunciator transmitter off of my mailbox door and tossed it into the back.  Why?  I haven't got a clue.  

The last time I went to the post office with a complaint (a document that I was expecting, but no one was here to receive it), which isn't all that close by, I had to go the the post office, and I got the same response -- "So what?"  

The buffoons at the USPS never cease to amaze me.  If I could do all of my banking electronically (I can't quite), I wouldn't use them for anything.

there's only one way to find out...

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Re: Word of advice.

port1080.

Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 06:50:28 AM EST

none

The last time I went to the post office with a complaint (a document that I was expecting, but no one was here to receive it), which isn't all that close by, I had to go the the post office, and I got the same response -- "So what?"  

Document your problems and file a complaint up the chain of command.  Make sure you talk to your local postmaster.  If he/she refuses to do anything about it, threaten to file a complaint with the USPS Office of Inspector General.  If they still don't do anything, file a complaint with the OIG.  It might not actually get the problem fixed, but at least they'll end up with a lot of paperwork to fill out, and with someone breathing down their neck for a few weeks.

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Re: Word of advice.

MayorBob.

Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:19:20 AM EST

none

Skeeter, a story in the paper the other day said the USPS has to get rid of a bunch of employees because of a budget crunch. So, what I'd suggest is you go full court press on this one. Follow port's advice and document and take your complaint up the chain of command. Don't settle for taking guff from someone at your local post office; demand to speak to the postmaster and, if you get the same "don't give a shit" attitude, pursue it to that branch's main post office. If you don't get any satisfaction or change from that "so what" attitude, call your Congressman to complain. Also, you might want to send an email to web site like consumerist.com. They live for shit like this. Not only might your complaint get widespread publicity, but they can be quite helpful in getting you the phone number of someone who knows an answer beyond "so what" at the USPS. They can even give you some tips on email carpet bombs which might help out your situation.

I've gotta say that I'm flummoxed here because my experience in dealing with the route delivery persons as well as the post office branch people I've dealt with has been quite the opposite of yours.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

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Re: Never understood HOAs...

T Slothrop.

Thu Aug 21, 2008 at 10:47:03 AM EST

none

More regional variance. This is turning into quite a learning experience for me.

Here most older homes (pre-1980-ish) don't even have garages. At best, you find covered driveway ends (car ports). Why? Because the weather is really only nasty enough for a garage to be a true requirement maybe 10 or 12 days out of the average winter.

More recently, houses in developments are built from cookie-cutter plans that are the same nationwide, so you get garages (and almost comically here in the South roofs pitched to lessen snow load). Plus so much of our population increase has been transplants from places like Ohio where garages are expected.

My point is that it's never occurred to me that parking in one's driveway is a sin. Growing up here, that's what the driveway was for. Theft and vandalism just isn't that big of a deal here (yet). It may be a matter of scale, too. Here in the New South Suburbia, I'd guess that the average driveway could easily hold three or four cars. Hell you could park probably 10 in mine. (Big yard, deep setback from the street.)

Now parking on the street in front of someone's mailbox is a whole different matter.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

12

a clear subject

DEMachina.

Wed Aug 20, 2008 at 08:10:14 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

I don't own a house right now (and never have), but I plan on doing my damnedest to avoid living someplace with an HOA.

My dad calls his the "neighborhood gestapo."  He has a pickup with his company logo on the side, and he got a letter bitching and threatening legal action because he parked it in the driveway for awhile.  Luckily he can park his in the garage.  Apparently it's just the business logo they have a problem with there.  A neighbor of his apparently had some kind of large van or truck with ladders on top (I think he's a contractor or something), meaning it wouldn't fit in the garage.  For awhile he had to cover it every day when he got home, until he or someone else realized that he could just park it on the street, since that's owned by the gov't (not sure if it's county or state there).

They have some other screwy requirements...they won't let him have a garden, for example (which is a shame, 'cause my dad used to grow tomatoes as well as basil for homemade pesto, among other things).

These things are a sign of what suburbia has become in the U.S.: a need to control everything in your environment.

Q: What do you think of western civilization? Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

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