Obama has three years of US Senatorial experience

Did I miss the special election held in 2005 for Illinois senator? No. Obama has held office exactly as long as Palin: 8 years in the minors (she was a mayor), 2 in the majors. Both had lower level community positions before those.

a state that has almost 20x the population of Alaska

I fail to see how this matters.
solid academic background which proves he is no intellectual lightweight

This matters only to intellectuals -- who largely are already in the tank for Obama. Palin has a solid record of personal achievement -- which will matter to PUMAs, who aren't.

he proved himself by running a brilliant campaign to win the nomination

Please. He ran an OK campaign which greatly benefited from him being the other minority in a lackluster field, and from having no record to speak of to prevent him from being the progressive Left's darling. Had South Carolina's primary come even a week later, we'd be talking about the Clinton-McCain race.

if she becomes VP she will be one heart attack away from being President.

Fortunately, the man who would need to have that heart attack looks like he spends his free time wrestling alligators -- and winning.

Did I miss the special election held in 2005 for Illinois senator? No. Obama has held office exactly as long as Palin: 8 years in the minors (she was a mayor), 2 in the majors. Both had lower level community positions before those.

Obama was elected to the Senate in 2004 and came into office on January 4th 2005, so he actually has almost four years of Senatorial experience, but I didn't want to overstate my case.  Palin was elected in 2006 and came into office on December 4th, 2006, so she has a few months less than two years experience.  It's also laughable to compare Palin's experience as a Mayor of a town of 9,000 with Obama's experience as a representative for an Illinois state congressional district of over 650,000.  My hometown growing up had 12,000 people, and it's a rinky-dink rural town.  It's current mayor is a college student.  Being mayor of a small rural town doesn't count for squat in terms of experience.

a state that has almost 20x the population of Alaska. I fail to see how this matters.

Then you either haven't thought it through or you're being disingenuous.  Let me put in it business terms, since that may make more sense to you.  If you were hiring someone to be a CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation, and you had two candidates, one who was the executive of a small company employing 1000 people, and one who had been the CFO of a Fortune 500 firm but didn't  have executive experience, which would you consider the stronger candidate?

Fortunately, the man who would need to have that heart attack looks like he spends his free time wrestling alligators -- and winning.

Gene Upshaw looked like he could wrestle alligators too, right up until about three days before he died.  There's no guarantee McCain won't live another eight years, but the odds are definitely against.  Age catches up to you, no matter how careful you are or how good your conditioning is.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

Obama was elected to the Senate in 2004 and came into office on January 4th 2005, so he actually has almost four years of Senatorial experience

You're right. Sorry about that.

It's also laughable to compare Palin's experience as a Mayor of a town of 9,000 with Obama's experience as a representative for an Illinois state congressional district of over 650,000.

As do I; being one in a herd of 60 state legislators (especially in clout-heavy Illinois) is nothing like being the primary leader. Palin has 10 years of executive experience; Obama, none.

If you were hiring someone to be a CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation, and you had two candidates

I would look at their records. In this case, Obama's experience is largely unexceptional, with what few initiatives he did champion leaving a legacy of failure. The welfare homes he stood behind are a disaster area. The school program he worked on with Ayers, useless. I'd say Palin looks pretty good in comparison.

Then you either haven't thought it through or you're being disingenuous.

You must be new here.

looks like he spends his free time wrestling alligators

Yes, those melanoma scars on his face are worrisome.  I'm surprised you brought them up.

I haven't read much about Palin, but the first thing I thought when I heard the news of McCain's pick was... ALASKA???? Wha?

It's like this whole election is about candidates who represent very separate and bizarre American demographics. No one gives you that "status quo" feeling that you sorta got from Bill Clinton and the two Bush presidents. With Bill Clinton, you had the standard Southern white guy "alpha male" thing going on. Same with the two Bush Presidents. And those two had the Big Business background which is common in politics. But none of the candidates we have today have any of that going for them, from what I can tell.

 You got McCain, the old white guy war veteran, who represents some kinda 1950s/1960s attitude. He seems so behind the times and disconnected from the year 2008. And he doesn't seem to have any big business background at all, having left the military and entering politics immediately after wards. He seems like a guy who should be running for President in the 1980s while the movie Red Dawn was in theaters.

We had Hillary Clinton there for a bit. No big business background, no "alpha male" feeling obviously, and her personal background had a very "corrupt post-modern America" feeling to it, thanks to the Lewinsky scandal, the rise and fall of feminism, and so forth. I would've voted for her if it weren't for her initial support for the Iraq war, but she didn't have that American Hero image attached to her, that's for sure.

And now we have Palin, who is from Alaska of all places. The only place that feels less "American" than Alaska but is still technically American is Puerto Rico. Her resume seems stronger than Obama's, but the state she governed seems so disconnected from the realities of the mainland that she feels out of place as well. No big business background here, either.

Ironically, the guy who seems to be most in touch with mainstream America is a a black guy who's middle name is Hussein and last name rhymes with America's arch enemy. No business background here.

Pretty interesting election, especially as it seems totally devoid of people with "capitalist hero" subtitles.

And now we have Palin, who is from Alaska of all places. The only place that feels less "American" than Alaska but is still technically American is Puerto Rico.

It produces a metric buttload of oil, which is important for the future. Self reliance, breaking addiction to foreign oil and all. Plus, Alaska is probably the one great frontier left on this nation's soil. What could be more American than that?

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

It produces a metric buttload of oil, which is important for the future.

T. Boone Pickens has it right.  By all means, drill, drill, drill, but anyone telling you that's any kind of solution is trying to pull a fast one one you.

Port1080:

I'm not a Republican - but I honestly don't believe Palin is any "less" qualified than Obama.

The difference lies in the duties of the office.

Senators are basically career politicians who study legal theory, attend lots of hearings and assisting in the making of laws.

By contrast, the Governorship is an EXECUTIVE position - it is administrative by nature. Governors have to make both major and minor decisions on a daily basis, be responsible for a multifaceted state budget, deal with municipalities (police, fire, schools, etc) speak to the local and national press on a weekly basis and perhaps most importantly, Governors bear the final responsibility should anything bad happen to the state.

Further, Governors act as Commander in Chief of their state's National Guard, which could be considered a form of military experience.

The size of the state which the Governor manages is not really a huge issue. The budget may be bigger but all of the duties are essentially the same.

In Palin's case, the state of Alaska should not be considered a "boondock" state. Yes, it is remote and small in population, but it is the center of a huge energy industry which is an important national issue right now. It is also the closet state to Russia and Alaska often negotiates with Russia concerning fishing territory, etc.

In my opinion, the fact that she is 2000 miles away from Washington is a bonus. She's not an insider and she has a strong reputation for cleaning up corruption.

For those reasons, I'd say she's every bit as qualified  as Obama - if not more.

If you look over Palin's Wikipedia entry, it seems that her management style is "my way or the highway."  She fired the entire Board of Agriculture and Conservation because they appointed a Creamery Board that advised an action (selling a non-profitable state-owned dairy) she didn't agree with, then ended up having to do what they advised anyway.  She pulled a very similar stunt as mayor, firing a couple of city employees because they had supported her opponent.

Governors act as Commander in Chief of their state's National Guard, which could be considered a form of military experience

Senators are basically career politicians who study legal theory, attend lots of hearings and assisting in the making of laws.

By contrast, the Governorship is an EXECUTIVE position - it is administrative by nature. Governors have to make both major and minor decisions on a daily basis, be responsible for a multifaceted state budget, deal with municipalities (police, fire, schools, etc) speak to the local and national press on a weekly basis and perhaps most importantly, Governors bear the final responsibility should anything bad happen to the state.

I don't know why it is that so many people seem perfectly willing to denigrate the experience of being a US Senator and favor Governors over Senators for the presidency.  I guess years of hearing it said on the campaign trail have made the accusation stick, even though there's absolutely no empirical evidence that governors (especially small state, minimal experience governors) make better (or even good) presidents.  If we look at the historical consensus candidates for top US presidents (here's the group: "George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and Franklin D. Roosevelt -- are consistently ranked at the top of the lists. Usually ranked just below those three are Presidents Thomas Jefferson and Theodore Roosevelt. The remaining top 10 ranks are often rounded out by Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Andrew Jackson, Woodrow Wilson, and John F. Kennedy"), you have an almost completely even mix of governors (3), senators (3), and military leaders (2).  There is no evidence at all that being a senator leaves one unprepared to take over the presidency.  Being president and governor may both be executive positions, but they're completely different ballgames with substantially different staffs, expectations, and responsibilities.  Saying that being governor of Alaska prepares you to be president of the US is like saying being CEO of a small furniture sales company in Iowa makes you the ideal candidate to take over Microsoft.  The job titles may be the same, but that's pretty much where the similarities end.

Further, Governors act as Commander in Chief of their state's National Guard, which could be considered a form of military experience.

The Alaskan National Guard has less than 2000 troops.  Managing it is only slightly more complex than managing a large urban high school (actually, nix that, I think the large urban high school is probably harder).

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

Every single president in your "top" list was either an officer in the military or a governor--and thus had executive experience.  Play along with the capsule biographies of the presidents:

Washington -- duh
Lincoln -- captain in the Black Hawk War
Franklin Roosevelt -- governor of New York
Thomas Jefferson -- governor of Virginia (post-independence); also count Secretary of State
Theodore Roosevelt -- lieutenant colonel during Spanish-American War
Truman -- captain during World War I
Eisenhower -- commander of Allied Forces during World War II; president of Columbia University
Jackson -- major general in the War of 1812
Wilson -- governor of New Jersey; president of Princeton University
Kennedy -- Navy Lieutenant during World War II

However, don't feel bad, because your methodology of consulting Wikipedia for a list of "top" US presidents, counting the number of governors, and drawing a conclusion about the usefulness of being a governor from that list has many flaws:

• People are "top" presidents for wildly varying reasons.  I was surprised to see Mr. Trail of Tears on your list.
  
• You are spanning centuries, when the job of president was very different.  Washington, and most 19th century presidents, presided over a microscopic federal government; it didn't really start to grow until Reconstruction.  These men needed fewer bureaucracy management skills.  (Note that the word "bureaucracy" did not enter English until 1818).

This is very true; as many presidents (including Clinton) have said, there is basically no adequate preparation for the job.  That might be why incumbent presidents usually win re-election; they have the killer experience argument working in their favor.  However, to follow your analogy, saying that being a community organizer prepares you to be president of the US is like saying... well, that being a community organizer prepares you to be president of the US.

You are spanning centuries, when the job of president was very different.  Washington, and most 19th century presidents, presided over a microscopic federal government; it didn't really start to grow until Reconstruction.  These men needed fewer bureaucracy management skills.  (Note that the word "bureaucracy" did not enter English until 1818).

True, but the list has a relatively equal distribution in terms of time.  In fact, focusing just on modern (World War II) presidents actually favors the senators somewhat, and removes all the governors on the list from contention (unless you count FDR as being a modern-era president, which is debatable since he sort of spans two eras and essentially invented the modern office of the presidency single-handed).

Every single president in your "top" list was either an officer in the military or a governor

While Truman, Kennedy, and Lincoln had some military experience, it was hardly what their political careers were based on, and I think it hardly served to make them "qualified" for high office - or if it does, there are hundreds of thousands of equally qualified ex-military folks out there right now.  It's very apparent that they got the chance at the top spot because of what they did in their political careers, not their military careers.  That's why I said there were two military-backgrounders on the list (although I guess you could say three - Jackson was a senator, but it's pretty apparent his political career was based mostly on his military career) - Washington & Eisenhower.  They were the only two that got to the position without any real pre-presidency political background.

However, to follow your analogy, saying that being a community organizer prepares you to be president of the US is like saying... well, that being a community organizer prepares you to be president of the US.

Did I ever say that it did?  I've leaned on Obama's Illinois State House experience & his US Senate experience far more than on his community organizing experience.  In any case, as I've said before, I'm not completely comfortable with Obama's level of experience - I would be much happier if he had more experience, but what he has is what I could consider to be the minimum requirement (or maybe just below the minimum).  Palin, on the other hand, is FAR below what I would consider to be the bare minimum.  If McCain was younger I might be willing to give that a pass, but considering his age there is a much higher likelihood than normal that he won't make it through his first term, meaning Palin could, potentially, be running this country with just a year or two (or even less - there's always that slight chance that McCain will be the next William Henry Harrison) of experience as being VP.  

That, in my opinion, makes this a stunningly irresponsible pick on McCain's part.  Palin may make a good president or she may not, but she has done nothing to prove that she will.  She is completely an unknown, as everyone has said time and again.  If she ends up being a great choice, it will be a surprise.  The performance of our second-to-top leader should not be a surprise.  McCain had a responsibility to pick a solid candidate who could take over and make sure things would run smoothly.  Instead he gambled on a blatantly political pick who is a complete unknown.  If McCain had picked someone with just that minimal amount of experience (Romney, Pawlenty, any of the other top contenders) this election would have been a difficult choice for me.  As it is, all I see here is that McCain is so desperate to get elected that he is willing to make irresponsible decisions just to get in power.  That to me says that he is no longer the man of character he (arguably) once was, and he no longer deserves my respect or my vote.  I just don't see how everyone is so blasé about, or even supportive of, this choice.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

You're citing holding the ranks of captain and lieutenant as "executive experience" suitable to prepare one for the Presidency?  That's some reach you've got there.

Administrative skills at that level are essentially ones of delegation, and both senators and governors cannot be successful without those.

Senators bring an intimate knowledge of Congress and what needs to be done to get legislation through it to the office.

Governors bring experience in dealing with a legislature from the outside to the office.  

From what Wikipedia says about Palin, she brings neither.

It is also the closet state to Russia and Alaska often negotiates with Russia concerning fishing territory, etc.

Does Alaska negotiate or is this the job of the fed?

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Barack is in touch, most connected to the American people? Wait, wha?

He's only in touch with the left wing nuttys who pushed him through the media as the clear choice, from the MOMENT he was elected to congress.  Since that time he has done nothing in congress, just like his 130 "present" votes in the Illinois legislature.  The only thing he's done since getting elected is begin his campaign for the presidency, backed by the far left, who is definitely out of touch with main stream America.

He's only in touch with the left wing nuttys who pushed him through the media as the clear choice, from the MOMENT he was elected to congress.

And here I was under the assumption that Hillary was the one running as the inevitable.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

Obama transcends voting.

There is a big difference between Alaska politics and national politics -- I don't deny it.  But there is also a big difference between being a Senator, where you run an office of maybe 75 staffers, occasionally make speeches, go on Sunday shows, and (if you like) introduce bills written by lawyers you hired, and being a President.  Senators do not have to make decisions between warring camps in their own organization, do not have to appoint people, do not have to know how to steer the largest bureaucracy in the world toward their policy objectives.  Governors do.

What is the experience of a Senator?  They might know a lot about policy issues.  I'll grant you that.

Profwhat - Good point, see my comments above.

Thanks for the compliment, and welcome to the site!  Hope you stick around.

Senators do not have to make decisions between warring camps in their own organization, do not have to appoint people

Perhaps not. But, they have to balance their base versus reaching out to independents and other voters. They have to keep all the disparate groups back home happy. They have to avoid pissing off their party leadership when going against them on roll calls.

Senators do have to deal with warring camps, just not inside a bureaucracy.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

But I don't think that any state regardless of size is going to elect a bimbo as governor.

Are you sure about that?

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Sorry  but I suffer from an advanced case of paleo-sexism. To me, only women can be "bimbos". Men (like your example) who exhibit similar characteristics are "morons".

I know a whole shitload of morons have been elected state governors, but I still think a bimbo would be a harder sell. :)

Your authority is not recognized here in Fort Kickass...

I appreciate what you're saying...I just feel that "Bush the Cheerleader" puts him squarely in the bimbo column.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

But I don't think that any state regardless of size is going to elect a bimbo as governor.

Oooh...you haven't been to Alaska, I see.

I don't really think he called her a bimbo. Yes he pointed out she is physically attractive (in another sub thread), but I don't think his comment was obnoxious on its face.

I think he was trying to point out that Biden has a bunch of foreign policy experience and is well traveled. On the other hand, Palin has been mostly occupied with internal issues (she even sold the state executive jet on eBay). Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

Whatever he was trying to point out, claiming she can't find countries on a map is way over the top.

Your authority is not recognized here in Fort Kickass...

Whatever he was trying to point out, claiming she can't find countries on a map is way over the top.

Is it really?  If I gave you a blank map, could you name every country on it?  I don't think I could, although I would hope that a serious US presidential candidate could.  I expect Palin could point out where Iraq is, and hopefully Pakistan and Afghanistan, but Uzbekistan?  Armenia?  South Ossetia (if it hadn't been in the news lately)?  I don't think it's crazy to think that Biden's probably been to some countries that Palin couldn't identify on a blank world map.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

If I gave you a blank map, could you name every country on it?

Only one way to find out.

I got more styles than prison got bricks- ain't that some shit?

Great find!

Your authority is not recognized here in Fort Kickass...

I got 42 out of 48, not too bad I guess.  I would have got three more (Singapore, Brunei, & East Timor) but they're so small I couldn't see them on the map, and hence forgot about them.  Totally missed Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, and Bahrain, though.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

I gave up after 7 minutes. I got 39/48 right (no cheating), which isn't too shabby I guess since I am not running for anything. Even more frustrating was that you had to spell it exactly correct, so that was a pain in the butt.

But yeah, I'm satisfied. Run me for VP of something.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

43 out of 48
I missed Qatar, Brunei, East Timor, Bahrain and the Maldives....

sierra tango foxtrot uniform

Man, I only got 23 out of 48. I suck. Those 'stans are particularly difficult, though.

----- The earth may fail, but we will quiver

Is it really?  If I gave you a blank map, could you name every country on it?  I don't think I could, although I would hope that a serious US presidential candidate could.

Damn port, are you high? That's got to be about the silliest thing I've ever seen you post here.

Your authority is not recognized here in Fort Kickass...

Damn port, are you high? That's got to be about the silliest thing I've ever seen you post here.

You don't think knowledge of the world around us should be a qualification for president, or are you knocking me because Palin is just running as VP?  I've already made my case that I think she should be held to a higher standard, because of McCain's advanced age, but I guess we could argue about that.  I don't see how that makes what I said "silly", though.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

What is "silly" is your assertion that ANY Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidate of the last 40 years or so anyway could pull off that feat. Sorry if my response didn't make that clear. :)

Look I don't think Palin is qualified for either job. To be totally honest, if you take all four of 'em Obama, Biden, McCain, and Palin, I'd say that Biden is the only who who is actually "qualified" for either job.

But you know as well as I do that American politics doesn't work like that.

Honestly I was only giving you a hard time because I felt your criticism of Palin was based almost solely on the fact that she is, admittedly, a serious milf. If I was wrong about that, I do sincerely apologize.

Your authority is not recognized here in Fort Kickass...

Sixth line should read "...only one who..."

Your authority is not recognized here in Fort Kickass...

What is "silly" is your assertion that ANY Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidate of the last 40 years or so anyway could pull off that feat. Sorry if my response didn't make that clear. :)

I guess it's asking for too much, but I wish it wasn't.  

But you know as well as I do that American politics doesn't work like that.

That just depresses me.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

Now wait a minute. I was going to stay out of this but this is just over the top. She doesn't know basic geography because she's a "young good-looking woman"? You are just assuming she's a bimbo.

I know as you have painstakingly pointed out Alaska has a tiny population. But I don't think that any state regardless of size is going to elect a bimbo as governor.

No, I'm saying it because of her lack of experience and her provincial roots.  Bush famously didn't know who the President of Pakistan was when quizzed during the 2000 campaign, and he clearly wasn't a bimbo - he just had no foreign policy experience and didn't keep up on current events.  I imagine the same is true of Palin.  It doesn't really require any foreign policy experience or knowledge to be governor of Alaska, and keeping up on such things isn't something that I would expert her to do.  That's not a dig at her qualification to be governor of Alaska (or any state, really), but it's certainly a dig at her qualifications to be President of the United States.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

Bush didn't know who the president of Pakistan was because he was (and remains) a fucking moron who is lost without his handlers.

I can find even most obscure former Soviet Republics and failed-state African countries on a map. I know the names of most world leaders. Does that qualify me to be president?

My point is that any reasonably intelligent, reasonably well-educated person  - regardless of political experience - should be able to find countries on a map and answer simple questions about current events. Saying Palin can't is saying a lot more than she lacks foreign policy experience.

Your authority is not recognized here in Fort Kickass...

Bush didn't know who the president of Pakistan was because he was (and remains) a fucking moron who is lost without his handlers.

....and yet Bush in 2000 had FAR more proven executive and political experience than Palin, and also a much better educational pedigree.  Given that, why is it crazy for me to think that Palin's foreign policy chops may be lacking?

My point is that any reasonably intelligent, reasonably well-educated person  - regardless of political experience - should be able to find countries on a map and answer simple questions about current events. Saying Palin can't is saying a lot more than she lacks foreign policy experience.

Now you're extrapolating far more than what I said.  I said that there are probably countries Biden has been to that she couldn't find on a map (and I meant a blank map, although I should have made that clear from the beginning).  I never said I thought she was a complete moron.  See some of my other replies to you for further clarification.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

I can find even most obscure former Soviet Republics and failed-state African countries on a map. I know the names of most world leaders. Does that qualify me to be president?

My point is that any reasonably intelligent, reasonably well-educated person  - regardless of political experience - should be able to find countries on a map and answer simple questions about current events.

I should also point out that I teach political science, and I'm well aware (and depressed by the fact) that a large portion of the kids who graduate with a BA in political science are not capable of finding countries on a map and answering simple questions about current events.  If you go out of political science it gets even worse.  People like you and I are the exception, not the rule, when it comes to knowledge of international relations.  It wouldn't shock me at all to find out that you would do better on a quiz of international affairs than many US Senators, and probably most state governors.  So, yes, I have a low opinion of Palin, but not just of her.  I'm pretty pessimistic about most politicians when it comes to those sorts of things.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

Considering that Obama and Clinton were so close in their policies that they were nearly indistinguishable,no doubt there were a significant number of women who gave her their vote only because of her gender.  But McCain and Obama have some very significant policy differences, so I doubt that the gender of the second spot will be quite so compelling.

McCain only needs a handful of votes in key states.

and the race was decided by women who, apparently, voted for Clinton mostly based on her gender.

Well, yeah. But those were Democratic women voting in a Democratic primary, so all other things considered equal, that's to be expected. 99% of those same women will not make the change to McCain on the basis of Palin's gender alone. I just don't see any appreciable number of Dems, regardless of gender, embracing the extension of GOP policies that McCain ultimately represents. Given what McCain represents, it'll be interesting to see how many conservatives Obama reels in. There looks to be quite a few.

Somewhere in my soul, there's always Rock -n- Roll... Joe Strummer

99% of those same women will not make the change to McCain on the basis of Palin's gender alone

1% may be all McCain needs

True enough. On the other hand, 1% of Obamacons may represent all that Obama needs.

Somewhere in my soul, there's always Rock -n- Roll... Joe Strummer

    disgruntled, right of center HRC supporters . . .

    And how a large a percentage of the electorate do you really place that figure at? Just curious, because after living through the 90s, the conservative CW would say that you couldn't even fill a regular season Arena Football League game with those numbers. Seriously, this could have some slight impact in Ohio- which is a big swing state, obviously- but I can't see it taking much away from the debate at the top of the ticket.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

By itself, it probably won't mean much...but if we look at it as a pebble in a pond...

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

You're probably right. If anything this neutralizes the HRC '12 run. If McCain/Palin lose then she has a legit contention in the primary during the next cycle. In that case I assume the Dem powers that be would be hesitant to allow HRC to mount a primary challenge against an incumbent Obama.

If McCain/Palin wins then one of HRC's big selling points is also taken off the table.

Is Palin the best possible running mate for McCain right now? I don't know. But in the long run it is a good move for the GOP.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

"Anti-gay" sure doesn't mean what it used to; twenty years ago it meant wanting to fire gays and quarantine them on an island somewhere, while today it means disapproving of gay marriage.  Progress!  Anyway, Biden and McCain both voted for the Defense of Marriage Act, and McCain and Palin both supported state gay marriage amendments, though McCain was one of the few Republicans to vote against the federal marriage amendment.  But Palin's position on gay rights is more nuanced than you suggest.

There is still a long time before the election.  You've got a whole convention, three and a half debates, a bunch of ads, and a whole ton of news cycles between now and the voting--why are you so certain?

Profwhat, I'm sorry, but I honestly laughed when reading your Sullivan link.

As for why I'm so certain, let's just say it's female intuition. :-)

You're saying you're not as annoying in person then?

Funny thing: To counter the idea that McCain had already made history, I offered up Geraldine Ferraro's name. Two of the three women had never heard of her and the third had completely forgotten until I mentioned it.

I come here for arguments.

No you don't.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

It is remarkable what close to a quarter century will do to people's memories. However, the main point of the original comment might stand in that, no matter whom they vote for we'll end up with either this country's first black president or first female vice president.

Tending to final details.

However, the main point of the original comment might stand in that, no matter whom they vote for we'll end up with either this country's first black president or first female vice president.

Allow me, a Vagina-American (or is that an American Vagina?...oh, well) to say that, given McCain's age and medical history, I can't help but think we're looking at this country's first black president or first female president.

As an aside, I live in a tiny town that has, though, twice the population of the town over which Palin presided as a member of the city council and mayor. We like to watch the meetings on our local cable station, for great comic relief.

I can't sure with any certainty that Palin's city experience is the same, but here these positions  are a joke and do not entail much more than a couple meetings a month. Most of those elected are primarily interested in protecting their business interests in the area. They come in knowing very little about how to run an effective administration or even about existing laws and regulations. They fumble through, and then they leave.  

me, a Vagina-American (or is that an American Vagina?...

Funny thing: To counter the idea that McCain had already made history, I offered up Geraldine Ferraro's name. Two of the three women had never heard of her and the third had completely forgotten until I mentioned it.

What I wouldn't give for a 'sad' moderation option.  

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

Who said anything about the democratic platform?  I just said it brings abstinence education into question.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

But I understand no one has told him about these plans yet.

I also bet they haven't told him that he has joined the Marines, either.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Palin has a lifetime membership in the NRA.

If that is true it speaks very well of the McCain camps ability to keep things on the QT and avoid leaks. Not a bad characteristic to have in the White House.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

Not a bad characteristic to have in the White House.

Yeah, we really really need less transparency in our government.

the New York Times is saying something rather different -- I find the NYT to be more plausible in this case.

This nomination is looking more and more like Harriet Miers as each day passes.

"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

the New York Times is saying something rather different -- I find the NYT to be more plausible in this case.

Meh. It just looks to me like more yellow journalism from the NYT -- obfuscation and selective emphasis to raise "concern." Selections from the article:

she was a member for two years in the 1990s of the Alaska Independence Party, which has at times sought a vote on whether the state should secede

She was a member of a different party. And this is worse than close friendship with an unrepentant bomb-throwing terrorist... how?

was arrested 22 years ago on a drunken-driving charge

Once, when she was 22 years old? Never since? The horror!

the team assigned to vet Ms. Palin in Alaska had not arrived there until Thursday

That might have mattered in 1940. These days, we have them's fancy Internets, fax machines and cell phones.

top aides were vague on Monday about how and when he had learned of the pregnancy, and from whom.

NYT attribution at it's finest. "Top aides"? One of the six-member team tasked with vetting, or someone else who by definition wouldn't know?

While there was no sign that her formal nomination this week was in jeopardy,

"...I'm bringing up the possibility because I want the nomination to be in jeopardy."

said a Republican close to the campaign

More fine attribution work there, Bumiller. Were the "sources" from the usual "sources say" line busy?

Although The Washington Post quoted advisers to Mr. McCain on Sunday as saying Ms. Palin had been subjected to an F.B.I. background check, an F.B.I. official said Monday the bureau did not vet potential candidates and had not known of her selection until it was made public.

That's correct. The campaign vets potential candidates, the FBI conducts background checks. Ask the FBI spokesperson if they vetted Palin, and the answer would be "no" -- just like with any other candidate.

The only real news imparted by this story is that McCain and staff can keep a secret -- not exactly the worst revelation to learn about a presidential candidate. The NYT is just pissed they didn't have months to try to drag Palin through the mud, and doing so now will look like they're trying to drag her through the mud, especially if they can't find any substantial flaw.

I'm not clear as to your "these women." If you're referring to the PUMAs, I think she will siphon off some of them.

And in Missouri yesterday, she was greeted like a rock star by 17,000 folks who seem to think that lack of experience is suddenly a big plus.

And did I mention she was treated greeted like a rock star? Hmmm....who's the celebrity now?

I'm not clear as to your "these women." If you're referring to the PUMAs, I think she will siphon off some of them.

Apparently McCain expects to do just that with this choice, but the buzz online seems to be evenly split between people like you, who think he'll succeed, and people like me, who think he'll fail.

Now all we have to do is wait. :D

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

I doubt if many PUMAs (from what I saw of them on TV) ever intended to vote for Hillary.

I doubt if many PUMAs (from what I saw of them on TV) ever intended to vote for Hillary.

I believe they did. And some of them will hold on to that fantasy,  looking forward to 2012. I'm not concerned in the least with them. In other words, they are the least of my concerns. Their 15 minutes of fame is up.

But I have to admit that I enjoyed the thought of Gloria Allred  gagged.

All I can say is the ones I saw on MSNBC looked like Republicans.  Other people have said that they were only found where there were TV cameras.

...looked like Republicans

No, it's the fat belly and the starched jeans that give them away.

Why is it far, far worse?  I think we'd all agree that presidential politics is a rough sport...is it far, far worse because she's a woman?

I agree with you on principle.  However, the right, starting with attack radio, took those gloves off a long time ago.  You (not you personally, of course) reap what you sow.  Personally, if this was "scooped" by the big media, I'd be outraged.  But the Daily Kos?  Pfft...I'm pretty liberal, but I don't even read that pile of shit.  I consider it the Free Republic of the left.  And just to be clear...if this was one of Obama's daughters, the Drudge Report would be all over this like a fly on a fresh turd - imagery intended.  Like I said, in this modern political landscape, the gloves are off.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

I don't think the daily Kos is the problem, because it's all over the internet in other forums.

The problem is that anyone would involve her children.  There are plenty of reasons not to like her without picking on her children or grandchildren.

Of course, there is a huge difference between voters talking smack about a candidate and a candidate making a nasty joke about another politician's child, as McCain so famously did about Chelsea Clinton.

Obama has no control over what a bunch of faceless bloggers are spewing, where McCain and McCain alone has sole control over his own mouth.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

...if this was "scooped" by the big media...

...the Drudge Report...

I looked at this one that clearly shows her pregnant.

Right as the events were taking place we had "experts" making their assessments on how old the girls really were by analyzing the facial characteristics of the gymnasts from photographs that were taken right before the Olympics.  A lot of ado over not much anything.  Has the IOC determined yet whether the Chinese girls were really under or over 16?  One would assume that the Chinese government has assiduously done a data scrub of existing records and the disparities between what was reported at previous events and now are being laid at the feet of incompetent or corrupt Chinese officials who probably "aren't available for comment."

Tending to final details.

I don't think that picture is clearly showing anything.

I don't care, but I don't think your evidence is conclusive one way or the other.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

That has nothing to do with Obama, and everything to do with just how nasty people in general can be.

I am still concerning myself with the conduct of the candidates themselves, and so far, McCain and Palin leave me, and plenty of others less than impressed.

Way back when Clinton got a blowjob, there were all kinds of Republican sex scandals but to this day all anyone remembers is  Monica Lewinsky.  Why is it always worse when a Democrat does something 'wrong' when it's the Republicans who are all about family values?   And don't say it's about perjury, because the fact is, his affair was a matter between him and his wife, not him and the nation, and if it was a matter between him and the nation, how come every one of the people in my links was not publicly charged and questioned before the citizens of the USA on national television?  Oh, yeah, because they are Republicans, and they are above reproach, no matter how sleazy they might be.  Whatever they do, it just fades away and the American people forget about it.

 The real difference is, there is always some excuse for the Republican party, but the Democrats, who are more liberal, are somehow held to a higher standard of behavior when it ought to be the other way around considering the Republicans are the family values, moral majority party.

But let some idiot blogger make a nasty comment about some Republican VP nominee or her family, and boy oh boy, it's all on Obama's head.  Palin gets a pass for any stupid thing she says or does because somewhere, someone else who said something stupid plans to vote Democrat.

Makes perfect sense to me.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

The real difference is, there is always some excuse for the Republican party, but the Democrats, who are more liberal, are somehow held to a higher standard of behavior when it ought to be the other way around considering the Republicans are the family values, moral majority party.

"...the Democrats... are somehow held to a higher standard..."

Interesting use of the passive voice. I think it just might be possible that the ones doing the holding are the Dems themselves. They're endlessly questioning themselves.

The Republicans...not so much. They can promote Palin as the candidate for "reform and change" without so much as a wink and nod. They don't sit around wringing their hands. They unite. And if takes a million Big Lies, so be it.

They unite. And if takes a million Big Lies, so be it.

That is true.  I agree 100%

If they pull a win out of this, it will be because they always stand together, which is something the Democrats never seem to be able to manage.  

What bothers me is, they take the whole country down with them.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

But let some idiot blogger make a nasty comment about some Republican VP nominee or her family, and boy oh boy, it's all on Obama's head.

As always, it's not just the offense, it's the hypocrisy. Larry Craig wasn't hounded because he had gay sex, but because he had gay sex after publicly supporting anti-gay social positions. Eliot Spitzer was run out of office not because he hired women for sex, but because he made his career prosecuting men and women for exchanging money for sex.

The same kind of thing is happening here. Obama positioned himself, and his supporters championed his run for president. for months as the candidate of Hope and Change. Does fabricating vile stories about an opposing female candidate represent that Hope and Change? Or is it just the same old Same Old?

Heh...Gerry, you just made her point.  But maybe you know something I don't but is Kos now an official part of the democratic party?

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

[Eliot Spitzer] made his career prosecuting men and women for exchanging money for sex.

Bullshit.  He prosecuted one prostitution ring that had underworld ties.  He made his career prosecuting Wall Street crooks, and their buddies in the Just Us Dept. nailed him for revenge.

Does fabricating vile stories about an opposing female candidate represent that Hope and Change?

Obama fabricated those stories?  He did it long before she was picked for VP, and spread them around Alaska?  We need a guy who thinks that far ahead for President!

He made his career prosecuting Wall Street crooks

And you don't think that Wall Street types frequent escort services?

Obama has already been quoted saying family are off-limits and if he finds any of his staff are responsible for the rumors they'll be fired.  

Unlike McCain he isn't on the record with nasty jokes about other politician's family, as in the Chelsea/Janet Reno joke.

Obama isn't responsible for what some blogger says.  McCain is responsible for his own behavior.  Palin is responsible for her own behavior.  Craig, Spitzer, the Clintons, and all the rest of them are responsible for their own behavior.

Where the hypocrisy comes in is when one party pretends to be representing family values when clearly their behavior says otherwise.  

So tell me, where has Obama personally said or done anything against Palin?  Do you have evidence?

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

And, if it's not true, the damage manages to center mostly on DailyKos with questions about why he decided to go this deep into the sewer this early in the campaign?  Nobody, that I'm aware of, connected to Obama, Biden or the Democratic Party has touched this masterpiece of investigative journalism.  Maybe it's true and maybe Moulitsas has allowed his blog to become the cyber equivalent of a supermarket tabloid -- if the news isn't interesting and twisted enough, make it up as you go along.

Of course, there's a third option here -- it may never be determined by the time of the election whether this rumor (and that's really all it is) is true or false.  The Palin family may go into info lockdown on this, saying it's ludicrous and libelous and a complete invasion of their privacy.  Any of the doctors involved in either the birth of Palin's son or her grandson (dependent upon your belief in this) will have to keep quiet out of patient-doctor confidentiality.  The really mainstream media isn't going to invest that much time running this down as they're going to have enough to cover on non-salacious news regarding the campaign.  And any media outlets that do investigate are liable to find there's no smoking gun they can find between now and November.  So, this becomes a bore and a time-filler on the internet.  Anyone who posts, "and her son is really her grandson" will likely be met with scorn and derision (well-earned IMHO) and demands to provide proof.  All of this going nowhere and signifying nothing worth talking about.

The Atlantic just ran a piece, minus the "is he her son or grandson" thing about what McCain really didn't know about Palin, which ought to give the Democrats and Obama/Biden enough red meat to gnaw on.  

Tending to final details.

"Come on, Mayor, she's a nobody." -- In your opinion, which of course isn't colored by the fact that she's a Republican.

"Her only attributes that mattered to McCain were her plumbing and her hard-right politics." -- I don't believe I ever posted that her gender wasn't a factor and I've outright posted that her politics and social views help shore up support on the right that might have softened on McCain with a pick of Lieberman, Romney or Ridge.  But, you're forgetting something here.  That is the fact that she already stood up to the power base in her state and managed to whip them.  I don't think it's a stretch to say that McCain was trying to strengthen his image as a maverick who won't abide business as usual once elected (whether there's any real truth to that or not).

"So she made it to mayor of a tiny burg.  How much competition was there?" -- Frankly, I don't know.  For the most part, wanting to be mayor or city councilperson in such small municipalities tend to be thankless jobs as you're bound to find yourself at odds with someone regarding one prosaic matter or the other: parking regs, zoning issues, trash removal, snow removal, etc.  That's why I don't necessarily share Sue's disregard over the relative merits of small town civic officials.  They tend to be dirty jobs and someone has to do them.

"And the same goes for getting to governor of Alaska, it's not like there are a whole lot of people to choose from." -- They do have close to 700,000 people who live in the state.  And she managed to upset an Alaskan icon in Frank Murkowski and then beat a fairly popular Democrat in the general election.  Heh, you know the Aloha State's total population is only like twice that of Alaska.  Surely, a political sage would be a shoo in.  I mean do you have anyone interested in running your state?

As for the rest regarding her looks, well they'll be factors but aren't they rather shallow factors?  Somehow it's demeaning to refer to any female as a "Vagina American".  Would that be a term you'd sit by and abide if someone referred to Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi the same way?

Tending to final details.

They do have close to 700,000 people who live in the state.

Around 500,000 of them are there because they (or their parents) got kicked out of the rest of the country, and there's no place left to kick them to.  Believe me, the talent pool isn't deep in Alaska.

Somehow it's demeaning to refer to any female as a "Vagina American".  Would that be a term you'd sit by and abide if someone referred to Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi the same way?

I used it because I thought it was appropriate.  Clinton and Pelosi are where they are because of their characters, not because some old horndog liked their lady humps.

Clinton and Pelosi are where they are because of their characters, not because some old horndog liked their lady humps

Hillary Clinton owes her position entirely to her husband, and Pelosi owes hers to a friend who inherited her congressional seat from her husband.

Bill married Hillary for her lady humps?  I suspect it was because of her character.

Your convoluted explanation of how Pelosi's lady humps got her into Congress is just a little too complicated to follow.

Meanwhile, McCain was definitely checking out the humps on his running mate...get it?  Mate?

Pelosi also owes a certain amount of why she is where she is now because of her father who was mayor of Baltimore.  Ask any Kennedy or Bush the benefits of growing up in the middle of a political dynasty.

Tending to final details.

In short there aren't a lot of politicos who got their jobs solely on his or her lonesome.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Don't tell that to Havok.  He's so entertaining when he's explaining his theories of political inheritance.

Tending to final details.

theories of political inheritance.

At least mine is a little more nuanced than "every woman in politics got there because somebody wanted to bang her."

As for Palin, did you see the video of McCain ogling her?

Just about anyone who gets anywhere in politics got there because they're either the son or daughter of someone, they made a whole bunch of money doing something else they could use as political seed money, or they had a rabbi somewhere along the line who steered them in the right direction.

Tending to final details.

Around 500,000 of them are there because they (or their parents) got kicked out of the rest of the country, and there's no place left to kick them to.  Believe me, the talent pool isn't deep in Alaska.

I bet a fair amount of them are residents only on paper. When I lived in the Gem State there were a ton of folks from AK who refused to switch their license, vehicle registration, whatever over. Apparently they hated Alaska enough to move but liked it enough to keep their residency for their annual Permanent Fund Checks.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

Yeah, most of the fishermen spent their winters in warm places like Mexico or Hawaii, but they still collected that sweet sweet dividend check.  I never applied for it, even though I had to change my residence in order to bring my guns into the state, because I wasn't willing to spend the winter in the frozen ass-end of Hell.

I would consider anyone who was nominated for the position a bit flaky if they giggled and said on camera they had no clue what their duties were if they actually were  elected to said office.

WTF was she thinking?  The dumb blonde act is not cute in politics.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

It was not a stupid question.  The role of the vice president changes markedly from administration to administration.  The duties under the constitution are paper-thin, so the actual day-to-day job is mostly going to consist of things the president tasks you with.  Hence her question of what the VP does "day by day," and whether the job would allow her to be "fruitful" and productive.  Also, I heard no giggle; you misremembered that, you sexist pig.

Actually, if you play several of her clips, she always has a barely suppressed giggle, as she does in that clip.

Play this one where the giggle isn't offensive because the subject at hand is considered humorous, then play yours, and see if she doesn't have the exact same ripply sound to her voice where she's trying to talk and not laugh at the same time.

Because she's in on the joke in both instances.  She doesn't outright let loose with the giggle, but it's there in her voice as she speaks, because it's oh so funny and cute that she has no clue.

And that makes me sexist?

What planet are you from?

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

I would consider anyone who was nominated for the position a bit flaky if they giggled and said on camera they had no clue what their duties were if they actually were  elected to said office

Perhaps I gave you the wrong link.  There seem to be quite a few folks who think she's flaky, vindictive and dumb.

I also note that people on this page seem to think she is laughing as she speaks, too. ;)

They must all be sexist pigs, because of course, that's the only reason to dislike her, right?  Just like that was the only reason to dislike Hillary?  

So far we've had two dirty politicians as our female candidates in this election.  Isn't it possible it has not a single thing to do with sexism and everything to do with their complete lack of integrity?  The only difference I see between them is Hillary refuses to play dumb for the camera.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

There seem to be quite a few folks who think she's flaky, vindictive and du

So far we've had two dirty politicians as our female candidates in this election

Since that story was circulating in Alaska long before the Daily Kos got it, I hardly think you can say they invented it.

I'm going to be very surprised if the McCain campaign doesn't self destruct all by itself.

I'm sure they knew about her daughter's pregnancy all along and with her marrying her boyfriend it's a calculated risk whether the pro-abstinence voters will flee or it will serve to make the Palin family look like poster children for the pro-life movement.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

Are you claiming that Palin is "dirty"? Other than lying bloggers, upon what do you base that accusation?

Palin  is dirty and vindictive.  She makes a habit of firing people who don't agree with her.

Bur of course, all the bloggers, all the people interviewed, all the Alaskans quoted, in fact, everyone who remembers her doing these things must be lying.  

I sure hope this woman doesn't try to sell you a bridge, zyxwvutsr.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

Palin has an approval rating of 80%. Maybe those reported were just the bitter 20% of losers.

She does in fact, have a high approval rating...yet at the same time 87% think she was lying about her troopergate situation.  Do Alaskans like liars?  Or perhaps they're thinking, well yeah, she lied, but she wanted to destroy a former in-law and who hasn't wanted to do that?

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Maybe they're thinking that protecting of a cop who would taser his own 10-year-old son is a worse offense than lying about attempts to get the cop fired.

This is precisely what we need in the Whitehouse...a veep that won't let a silly thing like the rule of law get in the way of getting the job done.  Ooorah

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

Palin  is dirty and vindictive.  She makes a habit of firing people who don't agree with her

I sure hope this woman doesn't try to sell you a bridge, zyxwvutsr

I doubt I'd vote for her, let alone buy anything. See, I'm not a partisan political ideologue like you are so I can more easily assess when someone is peddling bullshit.

Ah, those pesky liberals.  If you read up on what Alaskans really think, you'll understand that most people believe the whole taser story is bullshit made up by Palin to defame her brother in law.  Someone is peddling bullshit all right, but it's Palin.  She has a history of firing people when they don't agree with her, and the brother in law isn't the first to end up on her hit list.

Alaska and Hawaii are tightly linked, there are a lot of people here who travel back and forth between the 2 states with the seasons.  Those of us who live in these remote areas hear what people who actually spend time in Alaska have to say about Palin, and it's not the same 'everyone loves her' BS the GOP is feeding you.

An article yesterday said McCain's numbers from female voters went down, so the women aren't buying what he's selling.  :D  Men are, which comes to me as no big surprise, sadly, considering what makes up the GOP, a bunch of sexist old white men.   Maybe I had this all wrong and she wasn't chosen to pull in the female vote at all.  Wouldn't that be a kick in the head?  Of course, he already had the man, didn't he? ;)

But then, what do I know?  So far every one of my 'bullshit' links has been backed up by fact, and everything I've said has been reiterated by someone else and modded up as 'informative,' but I'm spouting liberal bullshit.  

I'm going to love watching them drag all the skeletons out of her closet as McCain's campaign self-destructs.   I can't wait.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

She has a history of firing people when they don't agree with her, and the brother in law isn't the first to end up on her hit list

So far every one of my 'bullshit' links has been backed up by fact, and everything I've said has been reiterated by someone else and modded up as 'informative'

11.Q:  Are you offended by the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?

A:Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I'll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.

Oh dear god.  

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

John Edwards.

Good point, although Edwards at least had served in national office.  He was pretty damn weak, though.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

Edwards was a senator. Governors actually have responsibility, senators only have to show up and vote once in a while.

senators only have to show up and vote once in a while.

Meh, that's all they're required to do, I guess, but in practice they do a lot more than that.  Every US Senator and US Rep that wants to get reelected has a huge staff dedicated to constituent services, which they have to manage.  They also need to understand and make decisions about the policies being voted on, as well as run effective campaigns.  They do all this without having any of the sort of institutional support staff (Cabinet, etc.) that most government executives do.  Finally, there's no real evidence that senators make worse presidents than governors.  Let's not forget that Abraham Lincoln had practically the same political career as Obama (and no executive experience, either), and yet he goes down in history as one of the most respected presidents of all time.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

She's not running for president. She only gets to be president of McCain dies early

McCain is in his early 70s.  He's three years OLDER than Reagan was when he first took office.  He will be almost as old starting his first term as Reagan was starting his second term.  Reagan is the only president that even served in office past age 72 (the next oldest was Eisenhower, who LEFT OFFICE when he was 71).  McCain is historically old, and it should probably be a campaign issue (although it's to Obama's credit, I think, that he hasn't yet made it one).  Both his father and his grandfather died younger than him.  Even if he takes excellent care of himself (which I'm sure he does), odds are very good he'll die before he can serve out two terms.  If McCain wins, his VP has a greater chance of becoming president through inheritance than anyone did since FDR ran for his fourth term.  That makes Palin's experience and qualifications exceptionally important, far more so than they would be if McCain was a younger man.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

He's three years OLDER than Reagan was when he first took office.  He will be almost as old starting his first term as Reagan was starting his second term.

US life expectancy has gone up five years since 1982. And Reagan lives 15 years past the end of his second term, despite being shot. You're not really helping your case here, port.

US life expectancy has gone up five years since 1982.

...and yet the average life expectancy for men is still 75 years.  Although to be fair, as I read this chart, since McCain is a white man who was 65 in 2001, his avg life expectancy would at this point be 81.5, which is somewhat better but still not encouraging.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

I'll bet McCain annonuces a one term plede in his speech.  It will mitigate the age issue and allow him to campaign as being free from the political bondage of running for reelection.

Anybody who thinks VP isn't running for president is naive at best.  Remember LBJ and Jerry Ford?

They absolutely must be ready to assume the duties of the office if necessary.

For McCain to pick a simpering twit who jokes about not knowing what the Vice President does seems like the kiss of death to me.  And, as I already said,I hope it is.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

Does anybody actually "run" for the vice-presidency? How many folks join the primary fight to get nominated to the #2 slot?

I don't think either of your examples really "ran" for the VP job. LBJ picked up the job as a consolation prize after Kennedy beat him in the race to the presidency. Ford didn't really run for anything except Rep and house minority leader and was picked because (IIRC) he was one of a few choices congressional leaders would confirm.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

I don't think either of your examples really "ran" for the VP job. LBJ picked up the job as a consolation prize after Kennedy beat him in the race to the presidency. Ford didn't really run for anything except Rep and house minority leader and was picked because (IIRC) he was one of a few choices congressional leaders would confirm.

And that is a foolish mistake on the part of the voters.  We should never vote for a team we don't consider top notch.  Like it or not, we vote in 2 people who theoretically should be capable of running the country and could both be in a position to do so.  Whether we think about it or not, we should.  Just because we don't doesn't change the facts.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

Yeah, well, I kind of just made it up. I could go as high as 94%.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

Only 63%? There's your real shocker!

And you were giving me a hard time for being sexist?  

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

Just 'cuz I would love to take a long, hard look at Palin's positions... on the issues, that is not the same thing as saying that she is intellectually challenged.

Personally I prefer to lust after highly intelligent, competent women.

Your authority is not recognized here in Fort Kickass...

305.5.

Why are so few of us left active, healthy, and without personality disorders?

Nope, they're full of crap on that one.

Just like this site, they're only as reliable as the people who post there, and ,you were wrong while I was right.  ;)

But the other link is based on fact, and backed up in mainstream media, just like I saidso pffffffft!

:p

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

...you were wrong while I was right

What was I wrong about?

The scandal with her brother in law was not 'thought up' by the daily Kos, and was, in fact, reported in mainstream media.

Just wait, there will be more.  She's going to make Hillary look like a saint.

"It was an ancient rule of Hawaiians that no one should hurt another bodily, or through theft of goods or through injury to feelings.These were the only sins."

The scandal with her brother in law was not 'thought up' by the daily Kos, and was, in fact, reported in mainstream media