I was referring to Somali customs like not speaking [English], not knowing how to read (even in their native tongue), refusing to [assimilate] - i.e. wearing wacky clothes (even when it's a hazard on job) and insisting that everyone [accommodate] their religious beliefs (praying 5 times a day), wife beating ("" If I can't beat my wife, how will she know that I love her?"), polygamy, cutting off clits, and engaging in clan warfare.

Do you have any evidence that the people of Shelbyville are being forcibly compelled to accept domestic violence, genital mutilation, and clan warfare?  Who is it who does the compelling in such cases, anyway -- is it the occupying U.N. troops or are local law enforcement officials participating in this fearsome mandated multiculturalism for nefarious reasons of their own?

P.S.:  word to the wise -- those words in red when you preview your post have been flagged by the spell-checker and are worth a second-look.  Although on second thought, I'm guessing you see red everywhere you look..

the people of Shelbyville are being forcibly compelled to accept domestic violence, genital mutilation, and clan warfare

But what really bothers them is having to work on Labor Day.

Who does the compelling? In the case of the illegal Mexicans that were imported, that was mostly the meat packing plant with the government giving a nod and a wink. In the case of the Somalis brought in to replace the Mexicans, that would be the government and the meatpacking plant working together.

"fearsome mandated multiculturalism"

It is being mandated. The people of Shelbyville didn't choose it. But they do get suffer the consequences.

It's amazing how people can pretend that no one is being imposed upon. If a meatpacking plant threw a bunch of waste in a town's river, would you make excuses for that? I don't think you would, even though doing so would be far more benign. Even if you don't clean up pollution, it goes away after a few years.

"those words in red when you preview "

Whatever. At some point I gave up on spelling.

Among the facilitators I left out are The Papists.

Some fascinating background, from an interview between Jerry Gordon and a Shelbyville journalist named Brian Mosely:

"Jerry Gordon:  In your Times Gazette series you have noted the difficulties that both the Somalis and the local community have experienced. Could you give us some examples?

Brian Mosely:  There are so many difficulties; it's hard to know where to begin. At the top of the list would have to be the attitude of the Somali refugees, which locals have consistently described as `rude and demanding'. This description comes from practically everyone who have encountered or interacted with them, from your average convenience store clerk all the way to law enforcement officers and other officials.

Given that this area of Tennessee is known for their southern hospitality, the behavior of the Somalis has really angered many people in the community, even those who would typically welcome people from other cultures. But what is really infuriating many residents are that the groups who bring the Somalis into the country appear to expect the local community to practice the same type of moral and cultural relativism they do.

For example, when asked about the `rude and arrogant' behavior, the head of Catholic Charities said that `this is just the Western perception of the Somali culture.' "

"Firefighters have told me that the Somalis refused to evacuate their apartment complex during a blaze and when they respond to alarm calls, [a frequent occurrence] the firemen are told to leave and that they are not welcome there. Law enforcement reports a similar `lack of respect' for their authority and I have been told off the record that many officers are hesitant to even patrol after dark the apartment complex where the Somalis live.

Even the chief of the Shelbyville Police Department told us: "With the Hispanics, they're more humble and very glad for any help you give them ... very respectful. But with the Somalis, that's not the case. You owe it to them."

As for the school system, they have had to deal with various culture clashes. Apparently, the Somalis have difficulties with women in supervisory roles and nearly half of the principals in our schools are female. It has been reported to us that the refugees have no respect for these educators.  Also, the Somalis have "unrealistic expectations" of what the school system provides. Apparently, someone had told the refugees that the schools furnish free child care and when the Somalis learned that wasn't the case, they become very aggressive and demanding, insisting that the school system provide it. "

"Jerry Gordon:  In Emporia, Kansas, another Tyson Foods community with a significant Somali work force, they experienced an outbreak of latent TB with one death and hundreds of cases screened positive. Has anything comparable occurred in Shelbyville?

Brian Mosely:  To our knowledge there has not, but this is a major concern which has been expressed by the public to me and other reporters here. Several Tyson employees called while I was working on the series to express their frustration in working with the Somalis. One worker at the plant made many comments about the personal hygiene of the Somali women that were totally unfit to discuss in a family newspaper.

The Tyson spokesman said that they require all newly hired workers to complete a post-offer health assessment, made up of a health history questionnaire that asks them about their medical background, including whether they have TB or been tested for the disease. Depending on their responses, the new workers are sometimes referred to a local medical provider or the county health department."

"The administrator for the Sheriff Department told me `they are a hard people to deal with,' and noted that Somalis have not adapted to American culture or laws, pointing out that officers would pull them over and "you tell them what they did was wrong, but they'll say they were right." It is the total lack of respect for the rules and law enforcement that have rubbed officers the wrong way."

Among the facilitators I left out are The Papists.

Man...read this from the right angle and you can almost see the flecks of spittle hitting the inside of the monitor screen.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

Behind the prejudice and the fear of foreigners mongering, he does have a point. Instead of giving locals decently paying jobs, the factory brought in labor from outside to do the work at lower rates with no objection from the government.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

"Morse has been fairly open about his skepticism over the entire immigrant worker issue. In essence he views it as a case where organized labor would really like to have more able bodies to pay union dues and pro-immigration politicians are more than eager to accumulate federal bucks tossed at communities who settle them."

Without the xenophobic ramblings and appeals to prejudices both ethnic and religious that is.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Bob I think you know that you and I see eye to eye more often than not, and I think you know that I am center-left on many issues. However I have been personally radicalized on immigration and multiculturalism issues precisely because Monroe, NC is the next town over from where I live.

Spend a day with me and I wonder if you'd still call me prejudiced and xenophobic. You just might start calling me "realistic" instead.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

Well, you weren't the xenophobic rambler I was referring to.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

Kinda sounds like a hate based blue grass band, don't it?

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

Drop a Leni Riefenstahl film in the dvd player with the sound turned down while cranking up a recording of Flat and Scruggs' original Foggy Mountain Breakdown.

That is if you're into that kind of thing. :)

{Insert amusing quotation here}

Well you see, Mr. Mayor on this issue I pretty much agree with xenophobic rambler you were referring to.

As thefadd said somewhere else (the AIPAC thread?), I wonder if sometimes some of you don't come down on Gordo/Steve because of style, reputation, and past history more than what he's actually saying at the moment.

Somali immigrants DO have a bad rep almost everywhere the feds have dumped them. Mr. Urk-way didn't make that up. Dropping several hundred African Muslims with some serious and well-documented assimilation problems in the middle of rural TN probably wasn't the brightest thing the feds or Tyson could have done.

Just because Gordo said it doesn't make it any less so.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

Please show me where I made the contention that the underlying facts of instances like the Somalis in your backyard and the wage depressing tactics of megacorporations like Tyson and the complicity of federal agencies and local authorities aren't true.  To be honest, the business about Labor Day being swapped for Eid isn't really all that interesting an aspect to what's going on here.  It's the dark, seedy side of this deal with the acts of the feds, Tyson, and local Tennessee and Shelbyville authorities that's the meat of this story.  I am no supporter of what was done in your community because it's essentially outsourcing the jobs while rubbing the noses of American citizens in it.  Which is why I made sure to include it in the write up.

I am no supporter of what was done in your community because it's essentially outsourcing the jobs while rubbing the noses of American citizens in it.  If Urkel wishes to have an honest dialog along those lines, fine.  But Urkel can never simply let it be with an honest dialog; he has to play whack-a-mole with the religious and ethnic and cultural eccentricities of the Somalis.  Yes, he does mention the dishonest tactics of the feds in orchestrating this by getting the Somalis in the country but then he goes off on that tangent about the Papists and the female circumcision and all the rest.  Invariably, he appeals to the baser instincts amongst us, essentially saying "wouldn't life be grander if we didn't have all these wogs around us?"  So, yeah, excuse me for being derailed by Steve's style and tone which gets in the way of me being able to call him much beyond a prejudiced xenophobic rambler.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

"he has to play whack-a-mole with the religious and ethnic and cultural eccentricities of the Somalis."

Those "eccentricities" matter, don't they?

"Invariably, he appeals to the baser instincts amongst us, essentially saying "wouldn't life be grander if we didn't have all these wogs around us?"

It would be, wouldn't it? No one can give a reason how the ordinary people of Shelbyville are better off. That's why discussing the real consequences of importing those Somalis, and what the Somalis are really like, is so upsetting.

I honestly don't remember anything about their presence driving down wages.

If they're working, they're driving down wages.

I'm not sure about your liberal angle though...how is this a liberal thing other than the general support liberals give to unions?

Because liberals want to raise wages through government intervention like minimum wage but they rarely bother to examine the market forces that would also do this. It should be approached from multiple angles.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

If they're working, they're driving down wages.

That's kind of a silly thing to say...at least as far as Lewiston is concerned.  You have no idea of the numbers that came to Lewiston...nor what the job market was like at the time.  While living in the area, I heard plenty of stuff through folks and the news about the new citizens of the town...but not once did I hear a complaint (even from their detractors) about them driving down wages.  They applied for the jobs that were available at the wages that were available.

And if I may, I must say that the liberal thing is just plain old liberal baiting.  

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

And if I may, I must say that the liberal thing is just plain old liberal baiting.

Not in the least.

More workers = lower wages. There's only about 100 of my jobs in my city and on any given day only 120 or so qualified candidates to step into those jobs. If I quit my job today and took myself off the market, I'd create an ever so slight inflationary pressure on the wages of the others in my position. If five new people moved to town looking for these jobs, they'd create an immediate downward pressure on wages in this sector. How you think you can argue against basic economics like that?

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

Not in the least.

Yes, in the most. Godsdammit...I'm a liberal and I just let myself be baited!  But I digress...

How you think [sic] you can argue against basic economics like that?

Think this way is how.  Agreed, in a textbook kind of fashion you are right...however, in a real world, tens of thousands of workers sense, no.  I can't think of any payroll clerks who say, 'oh my...we have 5 openings for 6 workers...I'll reduce the starting wage by $.02 per hour.  I'm just glad thefadd has removed himself from the labor market.'   Expanding upon your economics of the infinitesimal, I could drop a pebble into the ocean and cause a wave on the the west coast of England to be 1/100,000 of an inch higher.  Sure, there's an effect, but so what?  Lewiston/Auburn combined has a population of about 100k.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

But Shelbyville isn't an ocean. If 80% of the plant is Somali what would the plant do if there weren't Somali's there? Close? Move? Or be forced to pay better wages to white people if it wanted to stay in business? It's not like Somalis just happened along. They were brought there. Why were they brought there? To depress wages. I don't even understand why you'd argue against this.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

Christ on a crutch, dude...read my comments.

Personally, it looks like both the Somalis and residents of Shelbyville are getting shafted by both the union and Tyson, and probably by the refugee resettlement folks.

After reading more of the links and comments I can come to only one conclusion.  Of course Tyson is a dick...with complicit dickery from the resettlement folks.  They took a desperate people and dropped them into a depressed area.

 if there weren't Somali's there? Close? Move? Or be forced to pay better wages to white people if it wanted to stay in business?                    

Or move to a magical place named China...which makes Tyson an even bigger dick.  They can proudly display the "made in America" label while paying depressed wages.  It's marketing genius.        

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

More workers = lower wages.

Shoot a couple of hundred people and that should raise wages.

Shoot a couple of hundred people and that should raise wages.

The clan warfare should take care of that.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

It is a political issue when they are used as pawns in an economic system. You can not economically address the income issue unless you address that fact as well.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.