Business

GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

profwhat.

Posted to Business on Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 06:37:00 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

For a cool $48,000, General Motors will sell you a car that can do 0-60 in about 9 seconds, and hit a top speed of 150 MPH.  Sound overpriced?  Did I mention it's the new electric Chevrolet Volt?

GM has been promising the Volt for a while now, prominently featuring the Volt concept car at auto shows and in advertising.  This week, they finally took the wraps off the production model, which they will sell in 2010.  The car will be able to go about 40 miles on electricity alone; charging it will take an evening, and cost "less than purchasing a cup of your favorite coffee."  If you go longer than that, you're covered by a small gasoline engine that can take you another 300 miles.  GM has not set a price, but GM chairman Bob Lutz has reckoned that "$40,000 might be possible, but that $48,000 is more realistic."  Even at that high price, GM is expected to "lose money on every Volt it sells, at least in the early going, and possibly for years."

The Volt is more than just a car, though; for politicians, it represents a promise of many things.  "The eyes of the world are now on the Volt. It's the future of America and the world," John McCain said while campaigning in Michigan earlier this year.  Barack Obama is also a fan.  The Volt represents freedom from foreign oil and an environmentally sensitive approach to transportation.  That might explain, then, why GM is lobbying for subsidies for the Volt, including a $7,000 federal tax credit for customers of the Volt.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by profwhat, cars, automobiles, electric, General Motors, subsidies (all tags)

This story: 38 comments (2 from subqueue)
Post a Comment
5

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

skeptic.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:14:26 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

What could motivate someone to buy such an expensive car when conventional, and much less expensive gas-powered cars will do essentially the same job?  I can think of a few reasons.

  1.  Some people have lots of money and the extra cost doesn't really matter to them.
  2.  People who believe that the human race is severely threatened by global warming may feel a moral responsibility to drive a less polluting kind of car.
  3.  Although you spend more to buy an electric car, you will save on gas, and more importantly, you can drive it without any gas, which could become crucially important when and if the time comes when gas ceases to be available (assuming that electricity remains available at such a time - which in theory it will, since you can use photo-voltaic cells to recharge your car battery, even if the power grid ceases to function).
  4.  Electric powered cars are more reliable and need fewer repairs.  The internal combustion engine has far more ways of breaking down than the electric motor does.
  5.  The neighbors will be impressed.

I expect that although these are persuasive motives, most people will still not want to shell out the additional $20,000 beyond what they would have to pay for some other kind of car.  Electric cars won't really become popular until they can be sold for a price range comparable to that of gas-powered cars.

8

^ 5

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:19:40 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

6. Silent but deadly!

11

^ 8

silent but deadly

skeptic.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:25:40 AM EST

none

Some concern has been expressed that the quieter electric cars are dangerous because people (particularly the blind) won't hear them coming.  A possible remedy would simply be to install some kind of noise-making device in the car.  Perhaps a small external speaker that would play rap music whenever the car is moving.

13

^ 11

Re: silent but deadly

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:35:27 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant, astute)

Another possible remedy would be to confine the blind to their homes, or let them be run over.

18

^ 13

Great minds think alike

Lou.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 11:16:24 AM EST

5.00 (brilliant, funny)

Hey!  I was thinking the same thing...except replace blind with neo-conservative.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

16

^ 13

Re: silent but deadly

skeptic.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 11:10:49 AM EST

none

Another possibility would be to assign sighted guides to all blind people, and chauffeur-driven cars.

19

^ 11

The New York City Version Of The Volt.

MayorBob.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 12:20:21 PM EST

5.00 (astute, funny)

It should play a tape blaring "Hey, yoose, you deaf motherfucker.  Get the fuck outta the way before I should run you the fuck down."

Illegitimi non carborundum.

25

^ 19

Re: The New York City Version Of The Volt.

skeptic.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 01:32:56 PM EST

none

I think that you have perfectly captured the true spirit of New York City.  We would, of course, also need other messages to be broadcast in other locations.  In Muslim countries, naturally the required message would be "Allah hu akbar!".  In Beverly Hills, it could say "Get out of my way, little people, I'm a celebrity!"  In Alaska it would say "Vote for McCain and Palin!" And so forth.

14

^ 11

Re: silent but deadly

Lou.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:58:47 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

We could clothespin cards to the spokes like we did when we were kids.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

17

^ 14

Re: silent but deadly

skeptic.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 11:14:15 AM EST

none

Yes, I thought of that, the only problem being that car wheels, unlike bicycle wheels, don't actually have spokes.  But perhaps we could re-design the electric car to use wheels with spokes.  Who speaks for spokes?  You could become the spokesman for this movement.  Of course, the car spokes would have to be stronger than bicycle spokes, so we might need a creative new design.  Perhaps we could get Leonard Nimoy to invent the Spock Spoke.

15

^ 11

Re: silent but deadly

strangeluck.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 11:02:32 AM EST

none

I think the Prius already incorporates something like this. When you're in reverse and the car's running only on the electric motor, it makes a beeping noise to warn people. It's similar to what happens with a bus or large truck, though not quite as loud. I wouldn't be surprised to see GM include the same feature on the Volt.

33

^ 11

Re: silent but deadly

delete me.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 04:50:21 PM EST

none

This is why bicycles need to be banned. Been run over three times by dweebs on bicycles.

- derumi (del-me)
"Bobby Fischer? Man, that guy is crazy!" - Mike Tyson

34

^ 33

Re: silent but deadly

thefadd.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 07:12:56 PM EST

none

All I see now are bicyclists on cell phones, too.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

37

^ 34

Re: silent but deadly

harzerkatze.

Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 04:39:11 AM EST

5.00 (funny)

All I see now are bicyclists on cell phones, too.
Well, of course. They were phoning the people in front of them to please move out of the way.
Much less noise pollution that way. The cyclists, they are environmentalists, you know...

35

^ 33

Re: silent but deadly

skeptic.

Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 08:13:50 AM EST

none

Ah, but you see, you were run over three times by bicycles and you SURVIVED.  (I am assuming that your comments are not being submitted from beyond the grave.)  Had you been run over by cars instead, the result would likely have been more lethal.  Of course, alert cyclists would ring their bells if necessary, to alert you to their approach.  

36

^ 35

Re: silent but deadly

delete me.

Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 03:36:07 PM EST

none

Actually, if we want to compare those experiences with the one time someone hit me with a car, I got injured three times by bicycle, and bumped slightly by some blind granny backing out of her parking spot at a (thankfully) granny-like pace.

A bit skewed, since I be just a sample of one.

- derumi (del-me)
"Bobby Fischer? Man, that guy is crazy!" - Mike Tyson

6

^ 5

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

joshv.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:18:28 AM EST

none

"Electric cars won't really become popular until they can be sold for a price range comparable to that of gas-powered cars."

Or until gas prices become so high that the electrics quickly pay for themselves.  I am curious though as to why this thing costs so much - is it the extra batteries?  Wonder how much a Prius with an after-market plug-in battery upgrade costs.

10

^ 6

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

skeptic.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:23:28 AM EST

none

Yes, the batteries are extremely expensive.  They have to provide tremendously more power than a normal car battery does.  If we ever figure out how to build batteries less expensively that provide the necessary amount of power, we're in business.

32

this is how it always starts

DEMachina.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 04:28:53 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

I think an analogy to this might be in computers: there's always a premium for top-of-the-line stuff when it first comes out, but the price drops quickly.

I think hybrids/electric cars will do the same thing.  We just have to hope that if the Volt doesn't sell fantastically well (and I doubt it well), Chevrolet doesn't just decide it's not profitable enough and scrap the whole idea.

That said, I would have a hard time spending $48,000 on a first-model-year Chevy (or any Chevy that isn't a Corvette, for that matter).  I'm assuming the cost increase is mostly in the batteries, and this is why I think we may not be ready for viable electric cars just yet.  There seems little impetus to buy one of these when you can get something cheaper, from a company with a much better reputation for reliability, that is better for the environment, and will pay for itself a whole lot faster.

Q: What do you think of western civilization? Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

1

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

T Slothrop.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 09:26:12 AM EST

none

The car will be able to go about 40 miles on electricity alone; charging it will take an evening, and cost "less than purchasing a cup of your favorite coffee."  If you go longer than that, you're covered by a small gasoline engine that can take you another 300 miles.

To quote the latest TnT meme, "I'm confused". Everything I've read about the Volt (and the platform it is built on that I assume will be showing up under other GM bodies in the future) has stated or at least implied that the gasoline engine is only for recharging the batteries on the move. The IC engine has no powertrain to drive the car directly.

This is leading to a major controversy between GM and the EPA as to what kind of fuel economy rating the Volt will receive. The way GM wants it to be calculated, the mileage would be somewhat in excess of 100 MPG. The way the EPA insists is fair will result in a rating of only 48 MPG, leaving the Volt with not much to show over the Prius.

See this Motor Trend article  for the details.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

2

^ 1

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

joshv.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:07:18 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

"This is leading to a major controversy between GM and the EPA as to what kind of fuel economy rating the Volt will receive. The way GM wants it to be calculated, the mileage would be somewhat in excess of 100 MPG."

Yeah, I guess this would be a problem with a plug-in hybrid.  I mean, if you only ever drive less than 40 miles a day and recharge at night, you'd never fill the tank.  Does this give you an effectively infinite gas mileage?

As we move away from powering our cars with gasoline, wouldn't it make more sense to start rating our cars in terms of overall energy efficiency using a typical driving scenario.  Does it really matter whether the inputs are coming from gasoline or a wall socket?  I'd just like to know what percentage of those inputs are being transformed into moving me from A to B.  I guess this would be some sort of "Miles per Megajoule" rating.

The problem here is that if a car is multi-input, electric and gasoline, there may be two different efficiencies.  I'd say the solution is to give the consumer an efficiency rating for each, under identical driving scenarios.  Let them decide how to drive the car.

As for the single efficiency rating required by CAFE?  There is a simple solution.  Scrap CAFE.  If the government wants to create incentives for efficiency they should tax gasoline at a higher rate and get out of the business of forcing public companies to produce cars for which there is no market.

7

^ 2

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:18:43 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

I'd say the solution is to give the consumer an efficiency rating for each, under identical driving scenarios
Assume for a moment that you never have to buy gasoline for the car and you get the (probably hopelessly optimistic) $0.02/mile versus the $0.12/mile for a conventional auto. At $40K, the car pays for itself after only 400,000 miles!

9

^ 7

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

joshv.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:22:29 AM EST

none

Well, I wasn't thinking $/mile, but Megajoule per mile, or more conventionally Miles per Megajoule.  Future costs of gasoline and electricity might change your value equation very quickly.

12

^ 9

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:34:26 AM EST

none

How far in the future? The details on the Volt are pretty thin, but I'd guess $40K is at least a $15k premium over a comparable conventional car, or 150,000 miles at current gas prices. The cost of gas would have to double before it would make sense to get a Volt at $40K.

20

^ 12

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

thefadd.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 12:52:49 PM EST

none

Since when does anyone buy a car to make sense? The only reasons I know of for people buying cars is to compensate for a small dick or prove their shit don't stink.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

22

^ 20

My career in porn

Lou.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 12:58:06 PM EST

none

The only reasons I know of for people buying cars is to compensate for a small dick or prove their shit don't stink.

I have an 8 year old Plymouth Neon.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

29

^ 22

Re: My career in porn

joshv.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 02:38:05 PM EST

none

"I have an 8 year old Plymouth Neon."

I thought they all pretty much fell apart before the 5th year.

31

^ 29

Re: My career in porn

Lou.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 02:45:28 PM EST

none

Actually, it still runs pretty well..I have to start it with a screwdriver (the ignition switch is a stunning example of American automotive engineering).  But the a/c works well, plus it gets about 33mpg.  Oh yeah...no payment.  Us budding porn stars need to economize when we're just starting out.

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

23

^ 20

My shit stinks and my dick is about average

T Slothrop.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 01:12:39 PM EST

none

Needing transportation from point A to point B doesn't enter into it at all?

[Full disclosure: I drive a seven-year-old Ford Explorer Sport (two-door, two-wheel drive).]

{Insert amusing quotation here}

24

^ 23

Re: My shit stinks and my dick is about average

Lou.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 01:20:23 PM EST

5.00 (offtopic)

I've noticed that the less meat one eats, the less odoriferous the excrement.  Although, I have known some guys to take great pride in the strength of their emissions...some even giving them names.

Many years ago, the son of my then girlfriend came up for a visit.  Not only did this boy eat prodigious amounts of meat, I believe he ate roadkill as well.  At one point I left a candle burning in the bathroom to reduce the stench...even a little.  Have you ever seen a candle burn with a green aura?

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

26

^ 24

Smelliest threadjack ever

T Slothrop.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 01:53:12 PM EST

5.00 (offtopic)

I agree that reducing or eliminating meat consumption - especially red meat - does errr "subdue" (yeah there's a good word) the green cloud to one extent or another. Nonetheless, I would never describe the bouquet of human excrement - even that of a Volt-driving vegan - as anything other than unpleasant.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

27

^ 26

It all depends

Lou.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 02:04:39 PM EST

5.00 (offtopic)

" did you ever notice your own farts smell okay?"

George Carlin

It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine

28

^ 27

And ...

MayorBob.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 02:27:28 PM EST

5.00 (offtopic)

... they'll light up the room if you set fire to them.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

30

^ 27

Re: It all depends

T Slothrop.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 02:45:06 PM EST

5.00 (offtopic)

Well considering we were blatantly threadjacking, I wasn't going to traverse that particular avenue of inquiry. But now that you have, I will say only that I was assuming we were discussing your opinion of mine (or my opinion of yours) rather than ruminating on the auto-olfactory consequences of flatulence or excrement.

{Insert amusing quotation here}

4

^ 1

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:10:37 AM EST

none

...leaving the Volt with not much to show over the Prius
The concept version of the Volt was 200lbs. heavier than the Prius. It remains to be seen how much of the new materials used in the concept make it into the actual product.

38

^ 1

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

Dyolf Knip.

Thu Sep 25, 2008 at 10:01:40 AM EST

none

The Volt will need three pieces of information to determine how fuel-efficient it is.  The capacity of the battery, the efficiency of the car in miles per megajoule, and the efficiency of the car when running off the gas engine.  A single mpg value isn't going to cut it, because the driving habits of the owner will to a large degree dictate the fuel economy.

The EPA is simply going to have to come to terms with having a wide variety of vehicles that use different fuels in different ways.  Trying to force every car into the tried and true metric is going to yield stupid and counterproductive results.  How do they propose to measure efficiency of a hydrogen car?  Miles per gallon is meaningless with a gaseous fuel; you'd have to use miles per kilo or some such.

Actually, why the hell is the EPA being such a tight ass about it anyway?  One would think that the Environmental Protection Agency would be only too happy to help trump up an American-made car with a theoretically infinite gas milage.  If I were a cynical man, I'd think that they were being pressured by someone higher up with connections to the oil industry to downplay cars that need little or no gasoline.  But that'd just be crazy.

3

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 10:09:55 AM EST

none

Top speed is only 100MPH, according to the news release.

21

^ 3

Re: GM Unveils Electric "Chevrolet Volt"

thefadd.

Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 12:54:16 PM EST

4.50 (funny, funny)

Well that's a lot more to show then the Prius, then. Based on field interactions, the top speed for a Prius is 54 mph in the far left lane.

It is easy to buy small plaster models of what you think life is like.

This story: 38 comments (2 from subqueue)
Post a Comment