Legal

Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

pO157.

Posted to Legal on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 09:53:16 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Burglary is up 17% in Newark, NJ since a new mayor ordered local businessmen to remove barbed wire fences in order to make the city more aesthetically pleasing. A 1966 city law states: "No barbed wire fence or other fence or wall having barbed or sharp projections facing outward, or otherwise endangering the traveling public, shall be permitted adjacent to or along the line of any street or public place."

Of course, this law had not been enforced until recently as much of Newark is surrounded by barbed or razor wire but 132 properties were ticketed for having barbed or razor wire up. Many more were given warnings or told to take it down.

John DeSantis of Newark owns a lot that holds a used car dealership. After being told by a city official that the law prohibited barbed wire he was forced to remove it. Others have reported that vehicles in parking lots once protected by the wire are now being stripped with impunity. The Rev. C.H. Thomas of a church across from Mr. DeSantis' lot was once protected with razor wire but has found itself the victims of crime since the city asked for it to be removed.

Mr. DeSantis claims the city is missing the point. He states a city inspector told him the reason for the enforcement is to prevent people climbing the fences from getting injured. He reportedly retorted "I said that maybe if a few of these thieves were injured, the word would get around that 'Hey, we can't do this anymore."

Some business owners like Joe Nyamekye who runs a collision shop are angry about an alleged violation of their property rights. He wants an exception made so that business owners don't suffer. "We are hoping we can work with the city so we can hold on a while longer. I know of other cities that meet businesses halfway, and we hope that happens here." His councilman stated that while they will look into the matter Newark "[has] to be a city that follows its own laws."

Tags: edited by port1080, written by pO157, security, crime, law (all tags)

This story: 22 comments (0 from subqueue)
Post a Comment
15

I, For One, Prefer Things Down In Delaware.

MayorBob.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 06:34:22 PM EST

5.00 (barbed)

"He states a city inspector told him the reason for the enforcement is to prevent people climbing the fences from getting injured."

Not only do we have a lower crime rate without the need to surround one's property with barb wire, but barb wire isn't considered an attractive nuisance here.

Tending to final details.

16

A business opportunity

Thalia.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 03:44:07 AM EST

5.00 (opportunistic)

I cannot believe no one has sold the nice folks in NJ some alternative to barbed wire that is more attractive & still provides protection against intruders.  Sounds like a business opportunity to me.

Thalia

17

^ 16

Re: A business opportunity

Lou.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 10:01:15 AM EST

none

Landmines?

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

18

^ 17

Re: A business opportunity

joshv.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 10:22:33 AM EST

none

I say we go back to massive masonry walls and moats.  Enterprising young hoodlums might rediscover the trebuchet, but hell, a little engineering and construction might be good for them.

20

^ 18

it's not the catapault, but the ammunition

Lou.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 02:54:23 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

They might indeed rediscover ancient siege weapons...let's hope that they don't think to load the engines of war with Ebola infected Belgians.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

19

^ 16

Re: A business opportunity

gerrymander.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 01:39:49 PM EST

none

If I recall correctly from a visit to Home Depot, razor wire costs about $2 per foot. As passive perimeter defense goes, that's a hard cost to beat.

1

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

port1080.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 02:34:10 PM EST

none

I have some sympathy for both sides here - after all, shouldn't people be allowed to protect their property? - but ultimately I have to come down on the side of the city on this one.  Barbed wire / razor wire is dangerous and not even remotely aesthetically pleasing.  Having it up everywhere just reinforces the notion that the city is a shithole (which, of course, it is) and makes law abiding people even less likely to want to live there.  If you treat your neighbors like criminals (by barricading your property), well, why be surprised when they start to act like criminals?  These laws go right along with regular code enforcement - dangerous buildings that aren't properly maintained for and create bad impression of the neighborhood need to be cleaned up in the same way.  That said, I think that if the city is going to enforce these laws, it also needs to step up police patrols and educate property owners about alternative security measures that aren't quite so dangerous or ugly looking.  It also needs to put a serious effort into all kinds of code enforcement, and not just go after property owners that are trying (even if it's not in an appropriate way) to protect themselves.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

4

^ 1

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

pO157.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 03:00:50 PM EST

none

While I agree there could be some better ways for the property owners to deal with the situation I have to agree with them on this one. When it gets so bad that churches are the ones putting up razor wire to prevent burglaries then perhaps there is something to this. It's obvious Newark has some major problems, all those previous mayors sitting in jail plus having national guardsmen or state police patrol the streets are one time suggest the city is not able to protect its people. So then what are the residents to do?

I doubt the city is willing to pay for increased police presence, nor put out grants for gun toting security guards to watch the places they are requiring to sit unprotected. The owners of the property probably can't even get a firearm to defend themselves in high crime areas due to the state's strict gun laws.

So what should be done? I'm siding with the shop keepers on this one.

Spread it on!

6

^ 4

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

port1080.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 03:05:59 PM EST

none

So what should be done?

Well, either get politically involved and try to change the law, or move out.  Some situations end up such that that's just the only option left, as much as it sucks.  If you need to surround your place with barbed wire for safety, why do you want to be living / owning a business there in the first place?

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

7

^ 6

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

gerrymander.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 03:35:28 PM EST

none

Well, either get politically involved and try to change the law, or move out.  Some situations end up such that that's just the only option left, as much as it sucks.

Out of curiosity -- when it comes to urban aesthetics, which do you consider worse: occupied buildings/property surrounded by razor wire, or (legally ) unoccupied and derelict lots?

13

^ 7

If there are still stores open,

Shy Elf.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 05:42:08 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

you aren't in the bad slum yet.  It's something I learned from living in Chicago.

8

^ 7

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

port1080.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 03:45:36 PM EST

none

Neither is good - if the city government was doing it's job, you wouldn't see much of either.  If you want to nail me down, and we're talking a triage situation (which I suppose is appropriate when we're talking about Newark), then I guess the city is wasting its time going after these folks and should worry about more pressing concerns first.  But that doesn't mean that I think people should have an inherent right to put up razor wire around their property.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

9

^ 6

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

pO157.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 03:49:55 PM EST

none

Well, either get politically involved and try to change the law, or move out. Some situations end up such that that's just the only option left, as much as it sucks.

Yeah it sucks, and it sounds like the businesspeople tried to get the law changed but were met with relative indifference by the city administration.

The thing that bothers me about this is that I bet you 75% of the people in this country have a bad opinion of cities like Detroit, Newark, Camden, etc. The only way to change it is slowly over time by improving the safety and getting business going. Not randomly demanding that everybody put their personal safety at risk in case that Asian tourist who got lost and traveled into a dangerous area is depressed because of the razor wire he observes. The mayor needs the help of the people he just alienated. Otherwise he will have little to no tax base and will be worse off than where he started. Then again, given the history of that city and his predecessors he likely will be in prison so maybe he doesn't care. Heh.

If you need to surround your place with barbed wire for safety, why do you want to be living / owning a business there in the first place?

Some people can't help it. The prep lady here at work bought a home in a once thriving neighborhood 3-4+ decades ago. That was then, now its smack dab in the middle of one of the more dystopian neighborhoods in our city. Now she is terrified of the place having been a victim of a home invasion, sick of the random street crime, drug dealing and assorted shenanigans and wants to move. Unfortunately she's not able to sell, and says even if she was able to it would be for pennies on the dollar of the value she bought the house for years ago because nobody wants to live in a place that should rightfully have UN peace keepers*.

It wouldn't surprise me if many of those businessmen are in the same situation. Certainly some could leave, but not all. Mad props to the church mentioned in the article for sticking around even when they probably could have pulled the plug and moved someplace safer.

*She has some extremely... interesting... observations about the state of african-american youth, considering she is a grandmother in that community herself. I can see why they seldom let violent crime victims on juries.

Spread it on!

12

^ 6

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

zyxwvutsr.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 05:08:43 PM EST

none

If you need to surround your place with barbed wire for safety, why do you want to be living / owning a business there in the first place?
Uh...because they can't afford to live / own a business in Jersey City (or anywhere else), presumably.

11

^ 1

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

zyxwvutsr.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 05:06:09 PM EST

none

If you treat your neighbors like criminals (by barricading your property), well, why be surprised when they start to act like criminals?
Oddly enough, the criminals weren't committing crimes until after the barricades were removed.

So much for your theory.

14

^ 1

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

pO157.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 05:52:02 PM EST

none

If you treat your neighbors like criminals (by barricading your property), well, why be surprised when they start to act like criminals?

Dude... Huh? Why would people be putting up razor wire and locking things down if there wasn't a crime problem? How many people decide to waste their free time by fortifying their business into something resembling an armed camp if there is no need to*? If somebody is putting up razor wire there is probably a reason.

As for me, every time I walk by barbed wire capped fences and barricades I seldom feel the need to commit an armed robbery. I don't know about everybody else but I'm pretty sure inanimate objects can't induce people to commit felonies.

*The Dale Gribbles of the world don't count.

Spread it on!

2

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

joshv.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 02:52:23 PM EST

none

"Barbed wire / razor wire is dangerous"

Yes, I can't count the number of times I've been cut by a barbed wire 4 feet above my head on a fence as I walked by.

3

^ 2

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

port1080.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 02:58:25 PM EST

none

Sure, you or I aren't going to get into a situation where we would be injured by it, but what about irresponsible children who decide to try to climb the fence, for example?  There are laws on the books which prevent people from setting dangerous or lethal traps for criminals, for example, because some innocent person could end up getting caught in the trap and injured or killed.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

5

^ 3

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

joshv.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 03:03:52 PM EST

none

Irresponsible children might jump in front of a bus, or eat nails they found on the sidewalk - so what?  Barbed/razor wire is highly visible and it's danger is readily apparent to anyone with an IQ greater than that of a slug's.  It doesn't constitute any sort of a hidden trap.

10

^ 3

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

pO157.

Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 03:51:54 PM EST

none

If the kids are that irresponsible then perhaps the parents should not have let them out of their sight.

Spread it on!

21

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

WMK.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 04:06:33 PM EST

none

I read the reader comments following the article.  I guess it was about 90% knee-jerk liberal bashing with a whiff of racism - but if you sift through the venom and crazy there is a kernel of reason in the idea that a property owner should be able to take measures to prevent trespassing and crime beyond 'sell your property and move someplace nicer'.

I appreciate that some municipalities would like to set standards & laws regulating the appearance of structures and what you can and can't build on your property citing reasons of public safety and aesthetics - but it only seems reasonable that a property owner should be able to fence their property in an effort to deter/prevent crime ESPECIALLY if they live/work/own property in a demonstrably high crime area.

I wonder about how this story was written - after reading several versions carefully and viewing ALL the accompanying photos the story seems deliberately slanted to make the Newark gov't seem ridiculous.  The article starts by mentioning an 17% increase in the Newark crime rate ... and then strongly implies (although doesn't specifically claim) that the increase has been CAUSED by the city forcing property owners (um, how many? all of them? more than 2? the article doesn't say) to remove what little defense they have against the slavering hordes of criminals.  If you see the picture & description of the fence in the Seattle Times article you can see that a seven foot tall fence is topped by a a double row of razor wire with one of the 'rows' hanging down from the top of the fence on the street side of the fence - that would put the razor wire at 6 feet or less above the sidewalk - impinging on the public sidewalk.  I think the writers/editors of the article were merely seeking to incite the kind of 'those damned bleeding heart liberal dumbassed criminal coddlers are at it again!' reaction in order to heap condemnation on the Newark gov't - headed by Cory Booker, a popular and media-genic Democrat.  I sincerely believe this story is simply a dig at Booker and the Dems - why else would the story completely ignore the idea that SOME limit to a property owners right to surround their property with razor sharp barbs & spikes sticking out into the public sidewalk at head/face height might be reasonable?

IMO a business in an urban crime area should have the right to use barbed and razor wire atop perimeter fences, walls, and roof tops provided that these items are NOT projecting into public space that can REASONABLY be expected to be occupied by people at some or all times.  IMO the easiest solution would be to allow razor & barbed wire on as long as any portion of it that fronted on a public sidewalk/space was 10ft above the ground - IE; on top of a building or a fence too high for someone to accidentally bump into.  I usually don't see loud complaints about how evil liberal city governments prevent property owners from surrounding their property with gasoline filled fire moats, mine fields, and bear traps - so why should violating a man's right to set a barrier of bristling razor spikes set at eye level along the sidewalk become the point where the odious stink of liberalism becomes a tyranny up with no man should put?

 

"...when theft and high crime becomes obscenely obvious to even the blindest beer sucking idiot, it is always the Republicans who are in office." -- Joe Bageant

22

^ 21

Re: Barbed Wire Ban Buoys Burglars

pO157.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 07:07:56 PM EST

none

Good thoughts. My only concern would be that the city likely has an ordinance regulating the height of fences. Perhaps 12' fences are not permitted. Maybe all that is allowed is the standard 7-8' fence, which is often not enough. There is a warehouse by my house with a standard 7' chain link fence and the owner still has extra bars over his block glass fortified windows inside the perimeter.

Also, the situation where free razor wire is hanging down on top of the sidewalk is dangerous. If anything they should cite people for stuff like that, not passing out violation notices for properly secured wire.

Spread it on!

This story: 22 comments (0 from subqueue)
Post a Comment