Business

A Fishy Art Debate

MayorBob.

Posted to Business on Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 09:38:41 AM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Clearwater, Florida is the scene of a debate over what is and isn't art.  But, this debate isn't over whether the art is ugly or profane.  The debate isn't over the aesthetics of the piece.  This debate is over whether it's art or a commercial message.  Because the mural of some fish have been painted on the wall of a bait and tackle shop, the town believes it's a commercial sign and the owner of the shop can either apply for a permit or paint the mural over.  The merchant is past trying to defend it as a piece of art, now all about his right to free speech.  If he doesn't cave to what the town wants done, the merchant faces the further wrath of the town in the form of bigger and more onerous fines.

Herb Quintero owns and operates the Complete Angler Tackle and Bait Co. and he's the guy with the mural.  When he had the drawing of a swordfish, grouper, redfish and a snook painted on the side of his business after he opened last year, he thought it was "a cool thing."  But the Clearwater town code enforcers stepped in and essentially said "that's no painting; that's a sign."  They gave Quintero two choices: paint it over or apply for a sign permit.  But his business already has a sign and if he applied for a permit the town ordinance would probably force him to scale it down in size.  Quintero, who has already paid close to (US)$700 in fines over the mural, says the matter is making him sick and "the city is showing a total disregard for our First Amendment rights."

Clearwater spokesperson Joelle Castelli says Quintero has it all wrong, "we are holding him to the same standards that we're holding every other business to."  According to Castelli, the mural depicts what he's selling, ergo it's signage, ergo he has to apply for a permit.  What's the possible consequence of not applying for a permit or painting it over?  The fines increase to $138 a day, effective Monday.  Not everyone in authority in town is against Quintero, however.  Vice Mayor George Cretekos believes the sign ordinance is "too restrictive" and sometimes "you have to reward creativity."  Quintero notes that he bought a rundown old building in a bad part of town, spent $500,000 on it and everything he has done has improved the neighborhood.  He finds it odd that the town isn't doing more to keep businesses like his around:

"They've run so many businesses out of here. Downtown Clearwater's a ghost town."
The town has had previous run-ins with businesses in the past over what the town claims has been unlicensed signage.  It's not like Clearwater is opposed to public art, having paid a pretty penny to a number of artists to display their wares on city streets.  But, Quintero is adamant that his mural will remain up next week and let the town do what it wants to do.  He says it's not right for the town to dictate what he paints:
"They say I can paint anything I want there as long as it is not fish. Now they're dictating content."

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by MayorBob, art, commercial sign, Florida, First Amendment rights, money (all tags)

This story: 19 comments (1 from subqueue)
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3

Re: A Fishy Art Debate

port1080.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 02:25:26 PM EST

5.00 (best)

Here's a thought.  Maybe we can take the Clearwater city regulators, and those folks from Newark that were all upset about the barbed wire, and every other dumbass regulator out there and put them all on a boat.  Then sink it.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

4

No debate

Lou.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 02:56:49 PM EST

5.00 (technical)

This is pretty lame...if the guy used images of chum, hooks, and poles, the city might have a case.  They're pictures of fish for crissakes.  As folks noted in the subque...he sells fishing gear...not fish.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

5

^ 4

Re: No debate

Thalia.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 06:43:44 PM EST

none

You mean if someone runs a sex shop and paints sexy women on the side of the building, it should be fine, since they're not selling the women?

I'm not a connoisseur of art, but the paintings shown look pretty hideous to me.  I'd prefer not to have 'art' like that on every store.

11

^ 5

From the 'hood

Lou.

Sat Jan 10, 2009 at 11:30:44 AM EST

5.00

I grew up near Clearwater...and like many towns on the Gulf Coast, you can't throw a rock without hitting some kind of structure that has a fish painted on it.  It's a theme, really.  And as mentioned downthread, up close they are kind of yucky, but from a distance they look kinda nice.  

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

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Re: From the 'hood

Thalia.

Sat Jan 10, 2009 at 07:45:49 PM EST

5.00

That's interesting.  I wonder if all those other building owners got permits to get the fish painted.  It seems pretty straight forward.  Either this guy has permission or not.  Either he gets a variance or not.  Regardless of what the rest of the town looks like, he should follow the rules.

6

^ 5

You're a lawyer, not an art critic.

MayorBob.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 07:00:20 PM EST

none

Hideousness being in the eye of the beholder, the case in point ought to be what qualifies as a sign.  Now, if Quintero drew some fishing rods and night crawlers and lures on the side of his store, I might be able to square what he had drawn with being a sign.  But it isn't emblematic of anything he has for sale inside the store.  It is his store and the town officials told him he could draw anything on his store as long as it wasn't signage.  Thus, as a lawyer, don't you defend the right of a property owner to draw a mural in this case?  Considering what other Clearwater residents have said, the surrounding area is a rather shabby, run-down neighborhood with buildings which have graffiti all over them.  Quintero's mural may look hideous to you, but it apparently looks nice to the vice mayor.

Tending to final details.

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Re: You're a lawyer, not an art critic.

Thalia.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 10:46:45 PM EST

none

It definitely depends on the neighborhood.  And if he had permission to "draw anything" this certainly qualifies.  I hope he got that in writing.  Otherwise, as a lawyer, I think he's SOL.  Because face it, those fish are emblematic of what type of store he has (selling stuff for fishing).  It might not be the actual things on sale, but it's quite emblematic indeed.  The local cobbler's shop has a shoe on its sign, even though they don't sell shoes.

T.

8

^ 7

Re: You're a lawyer, not an art critic.

shane.

Sat Jan 10, 2009 at 01:52:40 AM EST

none

Think he get away with paintings of mermaids?  

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^ 8

Re: You're a lawyer, not an art critic.

Lou.

Sat Jan 10, 2009 at 10:48:19 AM EST

none

Think he get away with paintings of mermaids?

Yes, as long as he didn't sell the bait and hooks to catch them.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

13

^ 9

Tenderloin in Clearwater

gerrymander.

Mon Jan 12, 2009 at 02:54:19 PM EST

none

As I recall the bait for mermaids is sailors -- which would certainly be a different kind of mural.

10

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Re: You're a lawyer, not an art critic.

Shy Elf.

Sat Jan 10, 2009 at 10:50:14 AM EST

none

That's a fair summation of where he stands legally, but not of where he stands politically.

The fish don't look all that good up close, but they look good from far away, and as the vice mayor agrees, they certainly look much better than the run down and abandoned buildings which abound in the surrounding neighborhood.  He clearly should be able to get a signing variance, but the way to get such a variance is by applying for a sign permit, which he refuses to do.

14

^ 10

Re: You're a lawyer, not an art critic.

DropDeadGorgias.

Tue Jan 13, 2009 at 01:42:21 PM EST

4.00 (welcome)

From the sub:

" But his business already has a sign and if he applied for a permit the town ordinance would probably force him to scale it down in size."

So I think this is more than just intransigence, at least according to the writeup.

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Re: You're a lawyer, not an art critic.

pO157.

Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 09:25:06 AM EST

none

Do you think he would have applied for a permit retroactively had they not threatened to downsize the "sign?"

Spread it on!

1

Re: A Fishy Art Debate

skeptic.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 12:23:58 PM EST

4.00 (obvious)

This is exactly the kind of thing that gives government bureaucracy a bad name.

2

Re: A Fishy Art Debate

WMK.

Fri Jan 09, 2009 at 12:34:27 PM EST

none

The town gov't has a right to make ordinances and grant exceptions if they are so inclined, in this case they aren't inclined - so Herb Quintero had better either apply for a sign permit or expect more frustration and fines.  He lost this battle so why does he continue to fight?   The guy with the cows outside his steakhouse lost his fight too - give it up fish-boy.

"...when theft and high crime becomes obscenely obvious to even the blindest beer sucking idiot, it is always the Republicans who are in office." -- Joe Bageant

16

It ties the whole neighborhood together.

pO157.

Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 09:36:30 AM EST

none

It's a valued mural. It's not like they are god awful stencils that look like they belong at some kind of militant compound.

Count this as free expression. Even if its tacky art is in the eye of the beholder. I've seen some bad "art" in my day, even some work that looks like it was put together by a paranoid schizophrenic yet it has been installed in some of the top galleries around the world.  This is neither paranoid, nor that bad. Give him a break.

Incidentally, what is up with Clearwater, Florida? I was asked to take an interviewee to dinner one time earlier last year. She was from Clearwater and I casually brought up Scientology and asked what was up with them. Turns out she was a fundamentalist christian or something and didn't want to talk about it. Awkward! On a brighter note I got to show her her first snow plow while she was up here. For some reason she was extremely excited about that.

Spread it on!

17

^ 16

My inner employment counselor is screaming

Lou.

Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 04:36:05 PM EST

none

Someone was interviewing for a job with you/your company and you brought up religion?!  Thank Bog you were able to divert her kitten-like attention with a snow plow.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

18

^ 17

Re: My inner employment counselor is screaming

pO157.

Wed Jan 14, 2009 at 04:47:44 PM EST

none

Ha! I didn't have hire/fire authority. My job was just to take them to a local bar at night and get them drunk, among with my compatriots. Hooray. All the folks who we brought in said were they were from and that was the only small talk I could think to say about Clearwater. Also, for the record she didn't mention her religion, but I figured it out from later in the conversation.

Spread it on!

19

Re: A Fishy Art Debate

Dru Jeanis.

Wed Feb 25, 2009 at 01:40:25 PM EST

none

The ACLU has now taken the case.  There is a website about the case with lots of background, video links, etc. at www.keepthefish.com

This story: 19 comments (1 from subqueue)
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