Politics

The Seige 2.0: Lackawanna, NY?

pO157.

Posted to Politics on Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 11:21:39 AM EST (promoted by DEMachina). RSS.

Remember the 1998 drama "The Seige" wherein New York City was placed under martial law due to the threat of Islamic extremists? New information suggests a real-life version of this almost occurred in 2002 when former Vice President Cheney (R-Birdshot) urged President Bush to send in the military to tiny Lackawanna, NY to apprehend the "Lackawanna Six." President Bush declined to do so and the men were promptly arrested by the FBI.

Twelve hours after the President gives the order we can be on the ground. One light infantry division of 10,700 men, elements of the Rapid Deployment Force, Special Forces, Delta, APCs, helicopters, tanks and of course the ubiquitous M-16 A2 assault rifle. A humble enough weapon until you see it in the hands of a man outside your local bowling alley or 7-11. It will be noisy, it will be scary and it will not be mistaken for a VFW parade.
~General William Devereaux, The Seige.

The Lackawanna Six were men that had traveled to an al-Qaeda training camp in 2001 and stayed for a few months, leaving before 9/11. They were homegrown teenagers that had spent much of their life living in the quiet suburb of Lackawanna, NY. However, after 9/11 when word came out that a ring of locals had spent time in an Al-Qaeda training camp they were promptly snatched up by the FBI. After an anonymous letter was sent to the FBI office in Buffalo, President Bush and Mr. Cheney personally advised then FBI-director Robert Mueller to pick the men up. Prosecutors floated putting them to death upon conviction and they eventually received sentences ranging from 8 to 10 years in prison. They are currently assigned to the Communications Management Unit at Terre Haute Prison. Years later, questions remain about how dangerous the Lackawanna Six actually were.

But in those frantic days after 9/11, Vice President Cheney, his staff and some Pentagon officials argued the military needed to be used to raid Lackawanna, NY, search and arrest these men.  It was an outrageous request, as a President had not used military forces for law enforcement since the Civil War. According to Cheney, the raid would have been legal "because it served a national security, rather than a law enforcement, purpose." Bush administration officials also pointed to a Oct. 23, 2001 Justice Department memo written by John Yoo which said "The president has ample constitutional and statutory authority to deploy the military against international or foreign terrorists operating within the United States."

Local officials are glad that Bush and others decided against deploying the US military into their suburban community. "If we had tanks rolling down the streets of our city, we would have had pandemonium down here" according to Police Chief James L. Michel. Other Bush administration officials warned of serious consequences if the Cheney's suggestion had been followed and the US military had been turned against its own people: "What would it look like to have the American military go into an American town and knock on people's door?"

Tags: written by pO157, edited by DEMachina, war on terror, bush, cheney, martial law, military, john yoo (all tags)

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6

Re: The Seige 2.0: Lackawanna, NY?

Lou.

Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 04:11:00 PM EST

5.00 (dogged, punishing)

The only reason Bush didn't unleash Cheney was because he didn't have the will.  Or in other words, he had a lack of wanna.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

8

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Re: The Seige 2.0: Lackawanna, NY?

novy.

Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:44:27 AM EST

none

Bush did unleash Cheney in any number of ways. Most of what Cheney wanted, from his Nixon-era "unitary presidency" to unlimited wiretapping, torture of prisoners, his own secret death squad, making air travel vastly more burdensome, and so much more, he got in spades. For every time Bush had enough nerve to tell Cheney to back off, he let Cheney run wild multiple times.

1

Re: The Seige 2.0: Lackawanna, NY?

Lou.

Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 11:57:09 AM EST

4.00 (astute)

A bad idea all around.  But I'm almost sure that the citizens of Buffalo would have greeted the troops with flowers.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

9

^ 1

Re: The Seige 2.0: Lackawanna, NY?

novy.

Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 11:52:42 AM EST

none

Right. Flowers and bafflement. If Cheney could come up with any way to expand executive powers, he promptly tried to turn his wet dreams into reality. Sending troops into some blue state to let those ornery locals know how he felt about them would have suited him just fine.

2

Re: Unmitigated evil.

pO157.

Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 12:09:11 PM EST

none

This is only a further example of the unmitigated evil of some of the unAmerican idiots Bush surrounded himself with. Thankfully he had the common sense in this case to pass and let the FBI do its job. Can you imagine what type of precedent it would have set if this was allowed to happen?

Finally, where is the outrage on the right over this? People on the extreme end of things in that party were ranting about how Clinton was subverting the US via the UN and all that. I'm assuming they are 10X more apoplectic over a former president's advisers suggesting he should literally send troops into the streets to arrest some teenaged malcontents?

One more semi-serious post-script: Active military aside, can we call out the national guard and send them over to Buffalo? It's only July and our idiot mayor already did his annual "ZOMG Enough is Enough stop shooting everybody!1111!!111" speech.

Tramps like us, baby we were born to run!

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Re: Unmitigated evil.

gerrymander.

Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 12:54:16 PM EST

4.50 (funny, loyal)

Finally, where is the outrage on the right over this?

We're supposed to get outraged about the things Bush did correctly?

People recommend stupid shit during crises. Most of it never happens. I'll spend my emotional energy getting outraged about the ones that do happen -- and right now, between Government Motors, the anti-stimulus plan and the upcoming "run healthcare with the efficiency and effectiveness of public schools" plan, I'm tapped out.

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^ 4

Re: Unmitigated evil.

stevetherobot.

Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 09:36:28 AM EST

4.00 (most, likely)

Somehow, I doubt you'd shrug it off if Gore had suggested this to Clinton.

5

^ 4

Plural?

Lou.

Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 03:22:19 PM EST

none

We're supposed to get outraged about the things Bush did correctly?

Besides that...stopping your pitbull from shitting on the neighbor's lawn after it ate his kid is not praiseworthy.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

11

^ 4

Re: Unmitigated evil.

novy.

Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 12:26:09 PM EST

none

Only China spent more money on stimulus per capita than America did. It now looks like China will see 7.9% growth in 2009 and maybe even faster growth in 2010. Even in America, where Obama should have taken Krugman's advice and opened government spigots more dramatically than he did, June saw highest levels of home sales in eight years, stock markets have soared from 6500 back to over 9000, and most economists still talk about recovery by 4th quarter 2009.

If you had had your way, several major banks would have followed Lehman Brothers into bankruptcy, destroying finance and credit for years to come as in 1930s, G.M. and Chrysler would have ceased to exist altogether, putting millions of additional Americans out of work, 1/5 of Americans would have remained without health insurance and millions more would have discovered how little their insurance was worth as soon as they actually needed care, and we'd be contemplating additional wars with countries like Iran and North Korea to go with our ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Most of that "stupid shit" that was recommended during Bush-era crises DID happen, and you routinely defended everything that Bush-Cheney did no matter how outrageous it was. If Cheney had sent military forces into Lackawanna, you could have been counted on to insist that such actions were necessary to protect America from terrorist attacks. You don't express outrage because people like you were never outraged. Only now that some black liberal has become President can you entirely forget Reagan-era budget deficits or those two years it took for America's economy to recover from inflationary stagnation from 1981-1983.

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Re: Unmitigated evil.

port1080.

Sun Jul 26, 2009 at 12:14:37 PM EST

4.00 (interesting)

Thankfully he had the common sense in this case to pass and let the FBI do its job. Can you imagine what type of precedent it would have set if this was allowed to happen?

Yeah...it's kind of disturbing to be finding out now that Bush often seems to have been the voice of reason in his administration.  It's kind of a shame too because one wonders how things might have been different if instead of Cheney, he had picked someone like McCain to be his VP, or if he had gone with someone other than Rumsfield at defense.  Those two (Cheney and Rumsfield) seem to have been behind most of the worst moves the administration made.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Unmitigated evil.

novy.

Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 12:06:43 PM EST

none

In this case, maybe, but in untold numbers of other cases, not so much.

Precedent was exactly what Cheney was all about. Anything he could impose on Americans on account of 9/11 was on his agenda.

Outrage? You expect right-wingers to get angry about fellow right-wingers trashing America's Constitution? Only liberals and leftists plot to take away their freedom, don't you know? All those people getting wiretapped were liberals too. Us against Them! If Obama tried any of Cheney's tricks, THEN they'd be apoplectic because they'd be sure their government was after them instead of their evil liberal enemies. Right-wingers have no abiding principles beyond authority-worship, militarism, and puritanical religion, and anything their team does strikes them as not only justified but necessary.  

12

My Posse Comitatus is on Broadway

Steve Urkel.

Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 03:22:27 PM EST

none

A capable terrorist sleeper cell could take out  a sizeable number of Buffalo's police force attempting to arrest them. Weighing whether or not to dispatch Delta Force to contain and neutralize was not unreasonable.

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Re: My Posse Comitatus is on Broadway

pO157.

Mon Jul 27, 2009 at 03:43:48 PM EST

none

They needn't attack the BPD. All they have to do is chill in the house that is actually written on the search warrant. The cops would never find them. I wouldn't want to be their neighbors though --- Mmmm... pistol whip.

In all seriousness, the place was outside of Buffalo in a separate political subdivision. The cops in Lackawanna, not being complete retards, proved themselves more than capable of hunting down those particular individuals.

Tramps like us, baby we were born to run!

14

Re: The Seige 2.0: Lackawanna, NY?

thefadd.

Tue Jul 28, 2009 at 03:10:09 AM EST

none

What if this had happened. And the local Sheriff had done his job.

God forgives. The press only forgets.

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