Legal

Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw Milk Trial

shane.

Posted to Legal on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 07:16:43 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

For decades Michael Schmidt has been fighting for the right to legally sell raw milk in Ontario.  His battle first started with a court case nearly two decades ago, a case in which his lawyer made a plea bargain behind Schmidts back, then proceeded to take half of Schmidts farm as payment.  Even though he was barred by the court from selling raw milk he continued to do so, this time under a cow share program.

Two years ago the farm was once again raided, equipment confiscated, milk destroyed and charges were laid.  Defiantly Schmidt continued to provide cow share owners with their raw milk, even in the face of a $50,000 fine and contempt of court charges.  Today Schmidt was acquitted on all charges.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by shane, raw milk, Canada (all tags)

This story: 36 comments (1 from subqueue)
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3

Everyone is such a baby now

Steve Urkel.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 07:35:37 PM EST

5.00 (magnanimous)

If a Canadian wants to buy milk from his neighbor, let him. It's his own personal business. If he gets sick and can afford it he can always drive across the border to a good hospital.

1

Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

port1080.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 07:23:44 PM EST

none

If people are stupid enough to drink raw milk, I don't have a problem with farmers being allowed to sell it to them.  I do think that said farmer's should be required to carry a substantial indemnity insurance policy to cover the lawsuits that will surely follow when their customers come down with tuberculosis or some other disease / infection (note those are mostly recent cases from supposedly "safe" raw milk producers), however.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

shane.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 07:31:58 PM EST

none

Your tb link is interesting - I was under the impression that tb from raw milk was most often associated with sick farm workers coughing into the milking pail.  I also was under the impression that bovine tb is not spread to people.  

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asthma link

shane.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 07:39:35 PM EST

none

What do you think about the study showing raw milk reduces asthma risk?  Asthma causes all kinds of issues in kids and adults.  

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Re: asthma link

DEMachina.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 07:48:54 PM EST

none

Yes, but are those issues more serious than tb, salmonella, campylobacter, etc.?

Q: What do you think of western civilization? Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

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Re: asthma link

shane.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 07:55:08 PM EST

none

In Canada, approximately20 children and 500 adults die each year from asthma.  I'd say, yes.

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Re: asthma link

port1080.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:17:53 PM EST

none

I think it's interesting, but I don't think it's reason enough for everyone to drink raw milk.  Right now there aren't all that many disease outbreaks from raw milk, but that's largely because it's a boutique thing that's not widely available.  If we all switched en masse from drinking pasteurized milk to raw milk, you would probably see an increase in deaths from milk-related illness that would easily outweigh whatever reduction there were in asthma deaths.  I would just reiterate what the study's authors themselves said: "despite our findings, we cannot recommend consumption of raw farm milk as a preventative measure against asthma and allergies."

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: asthma link

shane.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:24:20 PM EST

none

I do agree with this comment.  Raw milk isn't for everyone, just those who go to great lengths to search it out.

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Re: yay, mainstream science!

zyxwvutsr.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:18:57 PM EST

none

Read far enough and,

"But despite our findings, we cannot recommend consumption of raw farm milk as a preventative measure against asthma and allergies."

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Re: yay, mainstream science!

shane.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:26:21 PM EST

none

Only the weston a price foundation recommends raw milk.  Anyone else is to scared to because of this guy.

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Re: yay, mainstream science!

gerrymander.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 01:56:27 AM EST

4.00 (funny)

That man is a champion of the people, saving the poor and helpless from the depredations of the milidairy-industrial complex, the heartless bastards who will excuse any amount of suffering and death in order to line their greedy pockets.

How long have you been a shill for Big Milk, shane?

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Re: yay, mainstream science!

shane.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 01:58:03 AM EST

none

Huh?

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Re: yay, mainstream science!

gerrymander.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 02:00:11 AM EST

5.00 (milky, milky)

Sorry, man, I thought "milidairy" would be a clear "satire inside" indication.

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needs moo-re cowbell

Acefantastik.

Sat Jan 23, 2010 at 08:28:46 PM EST

5.00 (painful)

Sorry, man, I thought "milidairy" would be a clear "satire inside" indication.

Looks like you were udderly mistaken.

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Re: yay, mainstream science!

shane.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 02:41:20 AM EST

none

I have no idea what you mean by milldiary though.

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Re: yay, mainstream science!

Lou.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 08:50:53 AM EST

none

Actually, that's pretty good.  The Milidary-Industrial complex.  Heh

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

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Re: yay, mainstream science!

zyxwvutsr.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:29:48 PM EST

1.00 (fatuous, frothing)

Only fags and Democrats are scared of that guy.

Oh, that's redundant, isn't it?

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Re: yay, mainstream science!

pO157.

Sat Jan 23, 2010 at 03:53:47 PM EST

none

Don't be fatuous, Kenneth.

Never compromise.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

Thalia.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 07:59:59 PM EST

none

I presume you also discourage the eating of hamburgers, which are often contaminated.  Oh, and fruits and vegetables.

I would like to see a comparison, but I would be stunned if there were more contamination issues with raw milk than with processed milk or vegetables.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

port1080.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:12:00 PM EST

none

I presume you also discourage the eating of hamburgers

I encourage people to cook their meat to a proper temperature to kill bacteria.  I also wish that more meat processors would irradiate their products.  

I would like to see a comparison, but I would be stunned if there were more contamination issues with raw milk than with processed milk

Prepare to be stunned (see chart on page 11, however the whole article is well worth reading).

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

shane.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:16:24 PM EST

none

That's the best chart I've seen yet.  three million Americans drink raw milk but there have only been 66 cases of illness caused by raw milk in about thirty years.  That's actual a pretty good safety track record. Were any of them even fatal or did it just end up with diarrhea for a few weeks?

What about spinach and deli meats?  Your chart only talks about diary products...

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

port1080.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:21:19 PM EST

none

shane - that's number of outbreaks, not number of people sickened.  Presumably multiple people were sickened in many of the outbreaks.  From the article:

WAPF and public health officials generally estimate that only 1% of the population drinks raw milk (Headrick et al, 1997). If the risk from raw and pasteurized dairy products was equal, or if raw dairy products were actually safer as WAPF states in their documents, we would expect that raw dairy-related outbreaks would be 1% or less of the total number of outbreaks. Instead, raw dairy products (excluding queso fresco) caused 75 (56%) outbreaks compared with 47 (35%) outbreaks associated with pasteurized milk products (Figure 4). In other words, there should have been only 1-2 raw dairy-related outbreaks among the 134 reported during that time period given the small estimated number of raw milk drinkers.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

shane.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:27:20 PM EST

none

Thanks for clarifying.  I thought I might have scanned through that too fast.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

shane.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:44:32 PM EST

none

Check this out, raw milk should be the least of your worries:
To better quantify the impact of foodborne diseases on health in the United States, we compiled and analyzed information from multiple surveillance systems and other sources. We estimate that foodborne diseases cause approximately 76 million illnesses, 325,000 hospitalizations, and 5,000 deaths in the United States each year. Known pathogens account for an estimated 14 million illnesses, 60,000 hospitalizations, and 1,800 deaths. Three pathogens, Salmonella, Listeria, and Toxoplasma, are responsible for 1,500 deaths each year, more than 75% of those caused by known pathogens, while unknown agents account for the remaining 62 million illnesses, 265,000 hospitalizations, and 3,200 deaths. Overall, foodborne diseases appear to cause more illnesses but fewer deaths than previously estimated.

And this...

Raw foods are the most common source of foodborne illnesses because they are not sterile; examples include raw meat and poultry that may have become contaminated during slaughter. Seafood may become contaminated during harvest or through processing. One in 10,000 eggs may be contaminated with Salmonella inside the egg shell. Produce such as spinach, lettuce, tomatoes, sprouts, and melons can become contaminated with Salmonella, Shigella, or Escherichia coli (E. coli) O157:H7. Contamination can occur during growing, harvesting, processing, storing, shipping, or final preparation. Sources of produce contamination are varied as these foods are grown in soil and can become contaminated during growth or through processing and distribution. Contamination may also occur during food preparation in a restaurant or a home kitchen. The most common form of contamination from handled foods is the calcivirus, also called the Norwalk-like virus.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

port1080.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:18:28 PM EST

none

Indeed, and that's with pasteurization and irradiation, both of which drastically cut down on the number of pathogens that make it into the milk supply.  Imagine how much worse it would be if such practices were abandoned.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

zyxwvutsr.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:21:35 PM EST

none

...hamburgers, which are often contaminated
If by "often" you mean "seldom" then I can excuse that as a mistake. If you really meant "often," then you are an ignoramus.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

shane.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 01:28:09 AM EST

none

I found a link to the pdf of the decision.  43 page pdf download....

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

wayhip.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 01:56:45 AM EST

none

Anything that comes out of fast food restaurants, YES! If you don't butcher it yourself or know the person who does cook it to 150 deg f (66 deg in real units)  to CYA.

9

It does a body good

Steve Urkel.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:14:56 PM EST

none

As far as I know, Brock Lesnar has never fought a cow. Here is footage of karate master Mas Oyama fighting a bull.

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Re: It does a body good

zyxwvutsr.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 08:34:40 PM EST

none

He is clearly a superior mammal.

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Re: It does a body good

gerrymander.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 02:05:32 AM EST

none

He is clearly a superior mammal.

He's practically a ninja.

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Re: It does a body good

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 08:44:48 AM EST

none

I took a photo of a ninja once.

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Re: It does a body good

Lou.

Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:00:21 PM EST

none

Christ...what some people will do for a fucking hamburger.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

27

Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

gerrymander.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 01:58:28 AM EST

none

Does this apply to unpasteurized cheese, too? Because I could take or leave raw milk qua milk, but a good raw cheese is another story.

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Re: Breaking News: Michael Schmidt Acquited in Raw

shane.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 02:09:00 AM EST

none

At least in Canada raw cheese is OK so long as it is aged 60 days.  But yes this ruling applies in Ontario and only to cow share members.

34

Related - grass fed beef no safer than regular

port1080.

Fri Jan 22, 2010 at 10:12:59 AM EST

none

http://www.slate.com/id/2242290/

A different set of findings emerged to indicate that this particular strain did not, in fact, behave like other strains of E. coli found in cattle guts. Most importantly (in terms of consumer safety), scientists showed in a half-dozen studies that grass-fed cows do become colonized with E. coli O157:H7  at rates nearly the same as grain-fed cattle. An Australian study actually found a higher prevalence of O157:H7 in the feces of grass-fed rather than grain-fed cows. The effect postulated (and widely publicized) in the 1998 Science report--that grain-fed, acidic intestines induced the colonization of acid-resistant E. coli--did not apply to the very strain of bacteria that was triggering all the recalls.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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