Legal

Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

Lou.

Posted to Legal on Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 01:52:42 PM EST (promoted by port1080). RSS.

Q: Why did you shoot him in the head?

A: I had my reasons.

Scott Roeder has been convicted killing Dr. George Tiller.  Roeder never claimed he did not kill the doctor, but was acting in defense of unborn children.

Tags: edited by Port1080, written by Lou, Scott Roeder, abortion, crime, murder, homicide, law, justice (all tags)

This story: 32 comments (1 from subqueue)
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5

Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

tomc.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 02:09:22 PM EST

4.50 (metaphysical, interesting)

If the defense could have found testimony from an unborn child who admitted to telling Roeder to kill Tiller, well, imagine the implications.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

Lou.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 02:38:55 PM EST

none

"Mr. Fetus...can you point to the picture of the man who you claim tried to abort you?"

"There he is...oh my god...that's the monster!"

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

pO157.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 01:56:50 PM EST

none

The jury made the right call. He admitted to killing somebody who was providing a perfectly legal medical service. In cold blood.

If Roeder wanted to do this because of his 'religious beliefs,' fine. Now he can suffer the consequences.

Never compromise.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

port1080.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 02:00:30 PM EST

none

Following Roeder's logic, shouldn't anyone then have been legally able to kill anti-abortion protesters on sight, out of fear that they might decide to kill abortion providers?   What a fuckwad.  Whether they believe it or not, the folks who advocate for killing abortion providers are essentially committing rebellion against the state, by personally deciding what the law should be.  State and society cannot tolerate this - indeed if there are cases for which the death penalty should always be preserved, these are the type.  

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Row after row with strict impunity

Steve Urkel.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 02:24:23 PM EST

5.00 (righteous)

"essentially committing rebellion against the state, by personally deciding what the law should be"

Just like the people who harbored fugitive slaves.

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Re: Row after row with strict impunity

port1080.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:02:47 PM EST

5.00 (civil)

Pretty much, yeah.  I've never been a big fan of civil disobedience.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:10:59 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

...shouldn't anyone then have been legally able to kill anti-abortion protesters on sight, out of fear that they might decide to kill abortion providers?
That's what passes for "logic" in your cluttered mind? Here's the difference: anti-abortion protesters almost never kill doctors, but abortionists routinely kill fetuses.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

port1080.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:21:04 PM EST

none

That's what passes for "logic" in your cluttered mind? Here's the difference: anti-abortion protesters almost never kill doctors, but abortionists routinely kill fetuses.

Do you think a fetus is a human being?

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

Lou.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:26:20 PM EST

none

Do you think a fetus is a human being?

I don't...I think they're precious tiny God sent miracles.  

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:32:09 PM EST

none

No. Do you?

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

port1080.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:34:52 PM EST

none

No.  Since you don't either, then you'll understand that my initial post was to point out the ridiculousness of Roeder's defense, not to seriously extrapolate what the consequences of it would be.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:42:33 PM EST

none

Roeder considers fetuses to be children, so, no, his defense is not necessarily ridiculous. More to the point, however, if one considers a gestating fetus to be a human, then it's easy to see that abortionists are killers by definition, but anti-abortionist protesters are not.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

port1080.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:45:15 PM EST

none

Roeder considers fetuses to be children

If I considered cows to be human, would that justify in any way, shape, or form my killing slaughterhouse employees?  Roeder's defense was little better than that.  The fact that his delusion is shared by so many other people doesn't make it any less laughable.  As you've said yourself many times, fools and the mentally incompetent need not be tolerated.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:54:34 PM EST

none

If I considered cows to be human, would that justify in any way, shape, or form my killing slaughterhouse employees?
No, nor would it justify killing random PETA protesters, which would be analogous to what you suggested above.

As you've said yourself many times, fools and the mentally incompetent need not be tolerated
I don't think I said that. Are you sure you're thinking straight?

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

port1080.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 04:05:02 PM EST

5.00 (stalking, astute)

http://treesandthings.com/comments/2010/1/21/143252/680#16

You've said similar things in response to queries about why you obsessively stalk Thalia as well.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 04:15:13 PM EST

none

Where did I mention the mentally incompetent?

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

port1080.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 04:36:15 PM EST

none

Where did I mention the mentally incompetent?

I don't have the time right now to wrestle with TnT's search function to try to dig it up, but I'm sure that at various points you've said or implied Thalia had a mental deficiency, and at other times you've said you shouldn't be forced to tolerate here, so by implication it can be derived that you don't feel the need to tolerate the mentally deficient.  Or, am I mis-reading your appraisals of Thalia?

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 07:07:27 PM EST

none

Well, I agree with you that Thalia seems to be rather stupid, but I don't recall a general statement along the lines of "the mentally incompetent need not be tolerated."

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

port1080.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 11:07:05 PM EST

none

Well, I agree with you that Thalia seems to be rather stupid,

I never said that.  I simply said that you have a low opinion of Thalia.  My own opinion has no relation to yours.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Jan 30, 2010 at 08:56:01 AM EST

none

I simply said that you have a low opinion of Thalia
You've had the opportunity to read some of the nonsense she posts here, so I assumed that you have a similarly low opinion of her.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

port1080.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 02:06:19 PM EST

none

Whether they believe it or not, the folks who advocate for killing abortion providers are essentially committing rebellion against the state, by personally deciding what the law should be.

To clarify this (since I don't think it's clear from what I initially said) what I meant was that by enforcing a "law" that was not enacted through agreed upon legislative or judicial process, Roeder was essentially declaring the state illegitimate.  An act of murder with such intent goes beyond simple murder and edges more towards rebellion or treason.  His actions and methods remind one of 1960s & 70s leftist radical groups such as the Weathermen, rather ironically, considering how far apart they would otherwise be ideologically, no doubt.

Ce n'est pas une pipe. C'est une signature.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

shane.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 02:07:40 PM EST

none

I think a six week back-country empathy strengthening getaway might do the trick.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

pO157.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 02:58:09 PM EST

none

His defense didn't even make any sense. From MSNBC:


Roeder had confessed publicly before the trial and admitted again on the witness stand that he shot Tiller in the head in the foyer of the Wichita church where the doctor was serving as an usher. He testified he felt the lives of unborn children were in "immediate danger" because of Tiller.

The doctor was standing in church handing out leaflets as an usher Roeder walked in and shot him without warning. How was there any immediate danger to unborn children? For Roeder to even have made such a claim Tiller should have been performing an abortion or at least driving to the clinic. Something else entirely besides being in a church.

Never compromise.

8

Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

Thalia.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 02:41:34 PM EST

none

To be clear, the interesting pieces it his one:  The jury deliberated for just 37 minutes before finding Scott Roeder, 51, of Kansas City, Mo., guilty of premeditated, first-degree murder. Roeder also was convicted of aggravated assault for pointing a gun at two ushers at Tiller's church after the shooting.

In almost all first degree murder cases, especially in states where the death penalty is possible, deliberation is much much slower.   That pretty much is a jury that walked in said "it's first degree" and then waited for 30 minutes so they didn't turn right around.  This clearly means the jury thought his defense was bullshit.  And once you discard that "defense" what you have is premeditated first degree murder.  

I think the defense did Roeder a disservice by letting him testify.  His testimony about having practiced, and planning this murder for a long time, was not helpful.

I'm very glad the jury reached this result, and I'm pleased and a bit surprised at the shortness of deliberations.  And believe it or not, I'm happy that the prosecution is seeking a Hard50 (50 years in prison before eligibility for parole).  

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

Lou.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 02:53:49 PM EST

none

I'm happy that the prosecution is seeking a Hard50 (50 years in prison before eligibility for parole).  

Why?  Against the death penalty or that if he was executed he would become a martyr?

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Lives!

zyxwvutsr.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:18:41 PM EST

none

Kansas law did not allow for a death-penalty prosecution of Roeder.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Lives!

Lou.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 03:21:26 PM EST

5.00 (bad)

Thank you...my bad.

Why does reduced fat Swiss cheese have twice as many holes are regular Swiss cheese?

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

Bertrand.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 04:27:37 PM EST

none

"I think the defense did Roeder a disservice by letting him testify."

The decision was his.  What power does a defense attorney have to stop a client from testifying if he insists?

"His testimony about having practiced, and planning this murder for a long time, was not helpful."

It was also apparently the truth and isn't a trial a search for the truth?  

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

DEMachina.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 05:01:59 PM EST

none

The decision was his.  What power does a defense attorney have to stop a client from testifying if he insists?

On paper?  None.  In the real world, though, the defense lawyer should've done everything short of tying the guy to his chair.  A lawyer's job (especially in criminal defense) often entails protecting clients from themselves.

It was also apparently the truth and isn't a trial a search for the truth?  

I think she meant it wasn't helpful to him in getting acquitted.

Q: What do you think of western civilization? Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

tomc.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 06:30:12 PM EST

none

The decision was his.  What power does a defense attorney have to stop a client from testifying if he insists?

I didn't follow the case very closely.  Was there ever any one doubting the fellow's sanity?

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

DEMachina.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 05:02:50 PM EST

none

...I'm happy that the prosecution is seeking a Hard50 (50 years in prison before eligibility for parole).  

Absolutely.  Nothing would've shown the hypocrisy of the death penalty more than executing this guy for killing someone for killing (what he believes to be) people.

Q: What do you think of western civilization? Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.

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Re: Breaking News: Roeder Convicted

gerrymander.

Fri Jan 29, 2010 at 06:11:23 PM EST

none

37 minutes for three murder charges is lightning fast, which is sounds right for this case.

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