I agree.

Can I have some of your cookies? Can I have some of your pie?

CSI: Nevada County

You just want to cut a fucking tomato and get on with your day

That's fuckin awesome.

Yeah that's basically harm-reduction in a nutshell and it definitely is awesome.  Same for the halfway houses where late-stage alcoholics are allowed to drink themselves to death.  In a sense it's a band-aid on a cancer patient, but you get to the point eventually were you have to just take it one offender at a time, as in the volunteer work I do (unrelated to alcohol or other substance abuse).

I got more styles than prison got bricks- ain't that some shit?

Wow. That article's just...wow. I did not know we had one of those in town. I did not know those existed. I'm not quite sure what to think about that. It's rare that I'm moved by a newspaper article.

Buffalo Pete: Raving batshit loony? Or HOPE FOR MAN???
(I may be that guy.)

If reading that doesn't move you at least a little, you'd better check your own pulse.

Damn...

[I'm not that guy.]

Huh - I had no idea somebody actually set something like that up.  The dudes who are there get to go out on their terms, the way they want to live and die, and the rest of society is saving a lot of money.  I call it win/win.

That was the most depressing thing I've read all month. I hope you're happy.

Can I have some of your cookies? Can I have some of your pie?

Or letting kids test ecstasy pills themselves to see if they got more than they paid for.

The thing about those programs is they actually could help the addicts in the long term. Lets say after 5 years of shooting up they decide to get their shit together and find a job, etc. It's easier to do if they are HIV- due to the needle donation policies than if they had full blown AIDS and were sick all the time.

Can I have some of your cookies? Can I have some of your pie?

You're forgetting the GOP talking point- founded in hardline predestinationist (i.e. Protestant) blasphemy- that addicts deserve AIDS for shooting up in the first place.  Good things happen to good people, bad things happen to bad people.  People get what they deserve.  The CEO deserves every penny he gets, the homeless man deserves everything he gets.  To suggest otherwise would be to suggest that there are flaws in the system, in the market, and that can't be- because just look at it: those who are most deserving have whatever they want, and those who are least deserving have their lot (and ought to be grateful for it).  You worked hard, you're white, you got good grades, nose-to-the-grindstone, no bastard kids, stayed out of trouble, right?  You're one of the good ones, so you're rich, obviously.  Right?

I got more styles than prison got bricks- ain't that some shit?

It's true! It's true! A homeless derelict contributes just as much to society as a CEO!

They provide a very valuable service to society.  To wit:

-They provide examples of just how bad things can get so we'd better mind our Ps & Qs.

-They provide a source of charitable giving so we can feel superior about our position in life.

-If one doesn't make enough money to give to charity, they still provide a ready target for Schadenfreude.

-Think of all the money we're saving from closing the mental hospitals and reducing some veteran's benefits.

Sure, they might not be pillars of righteousness that are our heroic CEO's...but without them we might not feel as good about ourselves, nor would our cities be as interesting.  The homeless are a vital part of our vibrant urban tapestry.

You just want to cut a fucking tomato and get on with your day

Think of all the money we're saving from closing the mental hospitals and reducing some veteran's benefits

Possibly because most homeless people tend to be mental disability and/or veterans.

Being a veteran, you'd think he'd know that.

You just want to cut a fucking tomato and get on with your day

This kind of knowledge wasn't around during the Civil War.

Why would a veteran have any particular knowledge of homeless derelicts?

You could say most homeless tend to have mental illness and/or smoke cigarettes. But what has that got to do with tobacco?

those who are most deserving have whatever they want, and those who are least deserving have their lot (and ought to be grateful for it)

More or less, yes.  There are some exceptions, but generally speaking, you have to make some really bad choices to end up homeless and it is difficult to end up as the CEO without making a string of very good (and often bold) choices.

Then why aren't you wealthy?  Do you just not work hard enough or is there a drug problem you're not telling us about?

I got more styles than prison got bricks- ain't that some shit?

I do ok, but no, I don't work particularly hard - rarely more than 40ish hours a week.  And I do like the booze, but I try to keep it under control (sometimes more successfully, sometimes less so).

I don't really have the work ethic to be uber-rich, but that's fine, I'll settle for my upper middle class existence

"I don't really have the work ethic to be uber-rich"

Or the narcissistic, egotistical "fuck everyone but me" mentality.

you have to make some really bad choices

Or unlucky...but that's a sign of god's disfavor so it's all good.

You just want to cut a fucking tomato and get on with your day

Like those people that made the bad choice of investing with Madoff.

Becoming a drug addict is not luck, its a choice.  Being mentally ill, well it may cause you to make bad choices, but they are still choices.  More reasonable laws about involuntary commitment and euthanasia would go a long way towards solving a lot of social ills in a humane manner.

Being mentally ill is a choice now? LOL Drug addiction doesn't have to be a choice either, some people take a drug like cocaine and never have any addiction towards it while others are "predisposed" to addiction. Also, it's not necessarily the drug addiction that leads to homelessness, but rather the factors surrounding a person's life and the addiction. There's alot of function drug and alcohol addicts that aren't homeless and never will be homeless because they haven't been mandatory sentenced and have to pay outrageous fines because of drug laws. There's guys that I see who gotten multiple DWIs and yet still go on like nothing ever happened because they have cushy jobs and lives, while others get one DWI and it could severely fuck up their life, because now they can't get to work (no license), have to pay crazy fines, lost their job, can't get another job... etc.

Drug addiction doesn't have to be a choice either

If you never choose to partake in the drug, you'll never become an addict in the first place.  I guarantee it.

(BTW, I stay away from opiate painkillers for exactly this reason, even after surgeries and injuries)

Being mentally ill is a choice now?

Being mentally ill is not a choice in most cases, but the decisions made by the mentally ill are.  Their choices may not make sense to the neurotypical, but they are indeed choices.

I eschew opiates in all forms as well...but not because of addiction worries, but because I have kind of weird sensitivity to the stuff and I wind up projectile vomiting.  Even Tylenol 3 makes me feel like I'm having an epic hangover/migraine.

You just want to cut a fucking tomato and get on with your day

Have heard of crack babies?

Also, there are drugs, like the opiates you mentioned, where people have no idea that they could be addictive.

Being mentally ill is not a choice in most cases, but the decisions made by the mentally ill are.

I don't understand this logical.

Also, there are drugs, like the opiates you mentioned, where people have no idea that they could be addictive.

Do they live in a cave?

I don't understand this logical.

The mentally ill make choices.  The choice to devote yourself to the claim that the CIA & the aliens are building landing strips for gay martians outside of Des Moines may not be a particularly rational choice, but its certainly a choice (I swear to god, Stuart!).

Well... I guess a cave might be considered a home.

The mentally ill make choices.  The choice to devote yourself to the claim that the CIA & the aliens are building landing strips for gay martians outside of Des Moines may not be a particularly rational choice, but its certainly a choice (I swear to god, Stuart!).

I don't know what the point is about talking about this. If it's not a rational choice in the sense that: "this is a good thing to do or a bad thing to do" vs "this is a thing to do", you can hardly say that they are responsible for their choices, especially pertaining to home ownership or general personal welfare. Stuff that we take for granted is extremely difficult for them.

I'm sort of surprised that neither you nor anyone else homed in on his solutions for such "choices":

More reasonable laws about involuntary commitment and euthanasia would go a long way towards solving a lot of social ills in a humane manner. (emphasis mine)

You can't make this stuff up.

You don't believe that people should have the option of assisted suicide and that perhaps counseling some desperate or terminally ill patients into such is the humane thing to do?  

Why is suffering so virtuous?

Huh? Your comment was regarding the mentally ill.

Yes, and the mentally ill should be allowed to make that decision as well (and many of them might do so to escape their demons)

But "Being mentally ill, well it may cause you to make bad choices..."

That is true.  That doesn't meant he choices are invalid.

If they're "bad," what does it make them?

Valid, bad choices?

What would be an example of an invalid, bad choice?

What would be an example of an invalid, bad choice?

A blind and deaf paraplegic considers taking his own life because he feels he is a drain on society.  As he's about to take his own life, the scent of lilac wafts through the window and decides to live after all.

That's an invalid bad choice.

You just want to cut a fucking tomato and get on with your day

That's a very good question.  I would say a choice that was influenced by external threat or intimidation would be invalid.  Any choice freely chosen would be valid.

So, what if we're talking about mental illness here?  Have you ever encountered a person with mental retardation or mental illness?  I would argue that the threat or intimidation comes from more the internal than external.  It doesn't matter if the bad instructions come from some external entity, or from within one's own brain....it's still a threat/intimidation.  But it's all moot, right?  Since those folks should be euthanized to reduce their suffering.

You just want to cut a fucking tomato and get on with your day

I saw it...I just couldn't find the words.  He'll probably try to wrap it up in words of "ending suffering", but what it really means is that the handicapped person isn't contributing to society and therefore is a drain on his wallet.  Since this non-contributing person is reducing his enjoyment of life, the moocher should be immediately euthanized.

I guess I found the words.

You just want to cut a fucking tomato and get on with your day