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Gawker just now catching up to Steadman

Acefantastik.

Posted to Scoop on Thu May 31, 2012 at 10:14:07 AM EST (promoted from Diaries by port1080). RSS.

Except Carl had a better vision than Denton's.

Enjoy and contrast the CJR's take regarding Denton and Daulerio's whoredom vis a vis their readers' personal experience with so-called community websites.    

The posts were short; the comments threads were long, and generally very high quality. We didn't have much of a signal-to-noise problem, because very few people knew we existed. We were basically just a group of friends using the web as a discussion aid. But the fact is that even though there are many more readers than there are commenters, there are also many more commenters than there are posters. And collectively, those commenters are faster and funnier and more knowledgeable than the staff of any website.

Ahem.  

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Re: Gawker just now catching up to Steadman

thefadd.

Sun May 27, 2012 at 06:19:23 PM EST

5.00 (besotted)

Carl always needed a more visionary partner after automatic media went belly up. It's interesting, you Ace always used to say those who tell don't know and those who know don't tell. The web has certainly enabled those who do know to tell their story more directly without the help of a media and I think that's what you see leaking through in "user generated" media which you could even put facebook in the category of today. Come to think of it, my facebook experience is probably the most like the original plastic.com of any website or news outlet I come across.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: Gawker just now catching up to Steadman

gerrymander.

Mon May 28, 2012 at 08:54:29 PM EST

none

I eagerly await the days of Gawker's front page being entirely posts made up of the 2013 equivalents of the Snuggie, Head-On, and designer shoe knock-offs.

The sad thing is how much that would be an improvement of the site.

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Re: Gawker just now catching up to Steadman

improper.

Tue May 29, 2012 at 10:11:07 AM EST

none

So in other words, adopt the National Review model.

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Re: Gawker just now catching up to Steadman

Anywhere.

Tue May 29, 2012 at 07:15:42 AM EST

none

Except Carl had a better vision than Denton's.

While I'm grateful for Carl's long term provision of Plastic, I am curious: what was his vision?

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Re: Gawker just now catching up to Steadman

Acefantastik.

Wed May 30, 2012 at 08:55:46 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

My interpretation of Carl's vision is that if enough literate users are given a sandbox, good comments will contain good links, and good discussions will trump the need to be spoonfed MSM-plagarized middlebrow horseshit.   Combining the simple elegance of Slashcode with user-filtered settings (Did you know you could browse comments at whatever score you wanted? ) made for a mostly-readable experience, and I'd wager that 99% of Plasticians read for the comments, and not the "articles", which in 90+% of cases (Including the "articles" I wrote up) were really just analysis/paraphrasing of other people's actual research and journalism.    By encouraging a RTFL ethos and giving users a chance to vote up comments, Plastic was an early adapter of the blog format that dominated the 2000's, and the sudden urge by Gawker, et al, to crowdsource their content feels oh so very 2001, except the 2001 tech generation didn't quite understand how to monetize narcissism.  

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Re: Gawker just now catching up to Steadman

port1080.

Thu May 31, 2012 at 10:11:43 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

except the 2001 tech generation didn't quite understand how to monetize narcissism.

I'm not sure the 2012 generation does either. It seems like the most vibrant discussion communities have relatively minimal advertising and a real community feel (see Reddit, Fark, SomethingAwful, maybe we could still include Slashdot and Metafilter in that list). I don't think any of those sites are really raking in the dough though, at least not in the way that Gawker or HuffPo do / aspire to. The main problem is that "high quality posters" are a minority of people, and they mostly want to talk to other high quality posters. They also generally don't click links and they're probably more advertising resistant than your average Yahoo News comments section poster. Gawker wants to get those people to make lots of posts, but still have the participation and eyeballs of all the idiots that can be effectively advertised to. The problem is, if all those people are posting their drivel, it tends to drive the high quality posters away - or the opposite happens, and the high quality posters band together and harangue and mock and set standards so high that low quality posters feel too intimidated to post or participate and pretty soon you have a barren desert of a website (what happened to Plastic, basically).

I'm not really sure why Gawker thinks their new model will fix that Catch 22 - if I understand correctly, they're trying to give people who comment at the top level control over replies to their comments. That will probably just lead to a lot of petty censorship and sniping, followed by angry users picking up and leaving. They also intend to sell top level comment spots to advertisers, I gather...maybe that works, but if it begins to impact credibility, again, you lose users. Let's say Nokia buys a comment on a story about the Lumia 9000 or whatever and they try to talk it up - and another high value commenter starts a different thread about how it's a crappy, lousy phone. Does Gawker censor that guy in favor of their advertiser? If they do, they lose credibility and people migrate to more neutral sites. If they don't, advertiser is pissed. Lose-lose. To advertise really effectively (high value) you need to control the content, and no truly vibrant discussion community is going to tolerate the level of censorship required for very long. I don't think curated blogs will ever be replaced by mostly user generate content - it's just going to be too hard to make money at it. I do think that user generated content will increasingly hurt sites like HuffPo and Gawker, but there's nothing they can do to coopt or fix that - they're just crap sites and eventually people are going to catch on that they can get basically the same stuff for free just by following the right people on Twitter / Facebook / Google Plus / whatever and engaging in discussions on those sites.

Allons-y!

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You can't always get what you want...

secretpath.

Fri Jun 01, 2012 at 08:43:02 PM EST

none

A revenue-maximizing model will never be a quality-maximizing model.

...but since no one was listening, we must begin again.

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