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We shall go no more a-roving.....

Gaius Petronius.

Posted to Media on Wed Jun 06, 2012 at 03:52:19 PM EST (promoted from Diaries by port1080). RSS.

Ray Bradbury, the author who brought true artistry to the world of Science Fiction, has died at the age of 91, in Los Angeles. Rest well, Ray.

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Re: We shall go no more a-roving.....

Gaius Petronius.

Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 09:45:38 AM EST

none

Well, lemme try to kickstart my own topic. Bradbury published at least 600 short stories, both Sf and non-SF. He began writing for the pulps when he was a teenager, but because of his great styling he graduated to the slicks, like Colliers and Esquire. Over his life he was able to experiment with forms and genres, doing things like all-dialog stories or no-dialog straight narratives. The important thing is that he had  venue to publish these works and try them on the public, and the public could find them in general circulation magazines you might find in any newstand, not just specialist outlets.

So, where would the aspiring Ray Bradbury of today get published? The general interest mags are mostly gone. The New Yorker and Playboy still run short fiction, but who reads Playboy anymore, and New Yorker is hardly a mass-market publication. You see reviews of short story collections by literary authors, but hardly anybody buys them. There is web publishing, which cost so little, but when you self-publish you lose the connection with an editor. In the glory days of short story mags legendary editors like Joseph Campbell of Astounding/Analog would work closely with authors, developing thei gifts. On the web, you're on your own.

There are a lot of fictional works out there, but mostly in novel forms. Is the short story a dead letter. and Bradbury was blessed to be there in its heyday? Edgar Allan Poe is said to have invented the modern short story, but I'm not sure it will make to to the 200 year mark.

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Re: We shall go no more a-roving.....

port1080.

Fri Jun 08, 2012 at 10:02:25 AM EST

5.00 (narrow)

I don't think that the short story will ever completely die - those short story anthologies for intro college lit classes will always need some new material - but I think your point is well taken that the long slow death of the general circulation magazine (a format for which the short story was particularly well suited) will probably relegate it to second tier status.  I do think that eventually the magazine form will figure out how to reinvent itself for the web, but I think the narrowcasting model will dominate - successful webzines will all have a very specific topical focus, and people will curate their own "general interest" magazines with things like Pulse, Google Reader, etc.  

The problem with this, of course, is that same problem we're seeing with ideologically focused cable news networks - when you only subscribe to topics you are interested in, you miss the opportunity to have your beliefs and opinions challenged.   No doubt there are a lot of people who were introduced to short stories through Playboy or Esquire who never really read the form until they were sitting bored on a bus or on the toilet, ran out of articles that interested them, and started to read one of the fiction pieces on a whim and became engrossed.  With the web's depth of narrowcasted content, that sort of serendipitous discovery just isn't as likely to happen - odds are that you can sate your desire for new content purely within your interest areas.  There are all sorts of obvious benefits to this depth of content, so I'm not necessarily going to say that the new paradigm will be worse, but it's definitely going to be different...

Allons-y!

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Re: We shall go no more a-roving.....

Shy Elf.

Sun Jun 10, 2012 at 05:02:02 AM EST

none

The general interest magazines were pretty much the network TV of reading in their era.  The chance of finding something you'd really love was never all that great, but there was at least some quality filtering, and they at least they were cheap.  If half of the stuff in them wasn't any good, you didn't really care.  Nowadays this role is pretty much filled by the internet, although the quality filtering is much less direct, and not as effective.

The problem in general with short stories is that by the time you know if the story is any good, it's pretty close to over.  If you buy a novel series, especially a long one, at least you know what you're getting before you buy it.  This can be somewhat overcome with collections of short stories by the same author, but even there the variation of quality is much larger than in a novel.  Along with marketing costs being not strongly dependent on size, this has been pushing the market towards not only novels instead of short stories, but longer novels instead of shorter ones, and novel series instead of single novels.

I think the best way for most authors to make money from their short stories is to give them away free on the web.  Use the page views to advertise themselves.  Insert a blurb that says, "Here is a list of my books you might want to buy, here's where to buy them, and if that's too expensive for you, please pressure your local library to buy them."

The marketing of authors as brands is pretty dysfunctional at the moment, mainly because there isn't enough trust that the author and publisher will remain together.  Look at the front of any book.  If you just read a book you liked, you will frequently want to buy another book by the same author.  There's going to be a list of books by the same author and the same publisher, but the books by different publishers aren't going to be there.  You'd think the publishers could agree to list them, which would benefit everyone, but no, they can't.

This also makes a big difference in quality filtering.  Publishers used to sift through all the junk in their slush piles.  Admittedly this was easier before the invention of photocopiers allowed spam slush pile submissions, but if any author you find is going to be poached by some other publisher, why spend all that time picking through the slush piles in the first place?  Except, when nobody is picking through the slush piles, isn't everyone just publishing whatever crap happens to be popular without trying to actually separate the good books from the bad?

Ultimately, I think we're going to wind up with some kind of narrowcast crowd-sourced literature reviewing system which actually works, but it doesn't seem to be developing very quickly.

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Re: We shall go no more a-roving.....

MC Nally.

Mon Jun 11, 2012 at 01:06:54 AM EST

none

In the glory days of short story mags legendary editors like Joseph Campbell of Astounding/Analog would work closely with authors, developing their gifts. On the web, you're on your own.
You've mixed up your Campbells..
  • Joseph Campbell - scholar of mythology and author of works such as "The Hero With a Thousand Faces"
  • John W. Campbell - extraordinarily influential science fiction editor and author of the story "Who Goes There?" (adapted into the movie "The Thing")

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Re: We shall go no more a-roving.....

Gaius Petronius.

Mon Jun 11, 2012 at 03:16:51 PM EST

none

Sorry about that. I would never want to affiliate the greatest Sf editor with an erudite windbag like Joe Campbell.

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Re: We shall go no more a-roving.....

Ephraim Gadsby.

Mon Jun 11, 2012 at 12:51:25 PM EST

none

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Re: We shall go no more a-roving.....

Shy Elf.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:17:37 PM EST

none

That's pretty interesting, actually.  London reports a standard minimum rate of 1 cent per word, and at the end of his career reports receiving 10-20.  Use a standard inflation adjustment of around 23x and this becomes $0.23 and $2.30-$4.60.  

Compare this with the modern standard minimum rate of $0.05 and at the top end around $3-$3.50, which appears to apply to "The Atlantic, The NY Times Magazine, Harper's, RS [Rolling Stone], and a few others" as well as The New Yorker and Playboy.

So, at the top end, compensation doesn't seem to have changed much, while in the broader magazine market either it has gone down a lot or magazines have greatly increased expected productivity, possibly with a reduction of expected quality.

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Re: We shall go no more a-roving.....

Ephraim Gadsby.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 04:35:56 PM EST

none

He once got thirteen-and-a-half cents a word for a story published in a newspaper. In 1908 Century Magazine was paying more per word in nominal terms than the Kenyon Review does today.

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Re: We shall go no more a-roving.....

Shy Elf.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 08:53:34 PM EST

none

It goes a long way to explain the state of published writing today doesn't it?   You get what you pay for.

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How true, how true.

Haggis.

Sun Jun 10, 2012 at 11:02:37 AM EST

none

"With school turning out more runners, jumpers, racers, tinkerers, grabbers, snatchers, fliers, and swimmers instead of examiners, critics, knowers, and imaginative creators, the word 'intellectual,' of course, became the swear word it deserved to be."  -- Fahrenheit 451

"You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them." -- the author responding a question about Fahrenheit 451

I am shitfitter; hear me roar.

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Re: How true, how true.

Shy Elf.

Tue Jun 12, 2012 at 09:28:08 PM EST

none

That's a good point.  Fahrenheit 451 has pretty much been adopted as a liberal anthem of the nightmare dystopia which would ensue were censorship allowed to run unchecked.  To Bradbury, though, I think it was more a concretization of the already existing coarsening of society.  To me, that also made the book somewhat of a disappointment when evaluated on the axis of science fiction vision; the world he envisions isn't really all that different from what we have today.

The Bradbury book which is the most essentially Bradbury has always for me been "Dandelion Wine", which describes his childhood home of Waukegan, Illinois as viewed through the rose-tinted glasses of memory as some kind of earthly paradise.  I know the subject sounds tremendously boring, and in fact I wouldn't rate it has his best overall, but his tremendous general writing ability and lyric tone are able to carry it off, and it's always struck me as being emblematic of his style.

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Re: How true, how true.

Gaius Petronius.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 at 02:02:36 PM EST

none

Unfortunately, the idyllic Waukegan of Bradbury's youth is as distant as the canals of Mars. Waukegan today is a pretty gritty rustbelt town, the bad neighborhood of Chicago's generally tony North Shore.

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