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Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucking knew

Acefantastik.

Posted to Legal on Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 01:44:05 PM EST (promoted from Diaries by port1080). RSS.

Former FBI director Louis Freeh has released an independent report regarding the actions not taken by Penn State University officials in the aftermath of the Jerry Sandusky child rape binge.  Not surprisingly, the university continues to piss into the wind.  When contacted in hell, the rotting corpse of Joe Paterno continued to insist WE ARE PENN STATE.  

Tags: pederast, Penn State (all tags)

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1

March 16, 1995

Ephraim Gadsby.

Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 12:19:50 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

The Daily Collegian reported:

The University of Nebraska took the national football championship from the Nittany Lions, but Penn State might be stealing Nebraska's chancellor for its next University president.

Andrew Loudon, University of Nebraska-Lincoln student body president and student regent, confirmed yesterday that Nebraska Chancellor Graham Spanier will be in Hershey today for the Penn State University Board of Trustees meeting.

[...]

Loudon said Spanier's strength at Nebraska lies in academics, but he is also known as a liberal individual who pushes an aggressive social agenda.

"He very much focuses on affirmative action and a pro-homosexual agenda," Loudon said.

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Re: March 16, 1995

Jackkeefe.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 04:27:28 PM EST

none

I imagine that historians from whatever society supplants the USA will look back at this sort of thing with the same shock and disbelief that we look at Caligula nominating his horse to the Roman Senate.  Its just seems unbelievable that a superior civilization could accept such degraded behavior.  The American university  system has provided plenty of these moments over the last 50 years and this sort of encapsulates it all in a nice a post. The most important  requirements to lead an institutions tasked with developing our youth? Being pro-homo and pro- racial discrimination.  Its beyond parody.      

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Re: March 16, 1995

John Adams.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:48:06 PM EST

none

Yeah, the student body president at Nebraska sure was in a position to fully evaluate an administrator at his school, and I'm sure he was striving earnestly to detail all of Spanier's best features.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

improper.

Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 01:25:13 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

I think it was port that said it really is a church/religion. Now it seems that is the perfect analogy anyone can make about this. This is protection of the clergy... just happens to be college football clergy.

3

blech

port1080.

Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 02:46:00 PM EST

none

When this all came out I, like a lot of people with Penn State connections (in my case, father, uncle, and two cousins, along with a lot of high school friends are all alumni) thought that Paterno couldn't have really known what was going on.  He was by all accounts a good, honest guy who held his players to a much higher academic standard than almost any other coach with a successful D1 program.  He worked for a salary below market value, and gave a lot of what he did make back to the university.  He was involved in charity, accessible to students, players, and fans, and just seemed like an all around great guy.  And then there was this.  I can't square it, really - how does someone like Paterno let child ass rape slide like that?  It seems he had to have known that something happened in '98, and then again in '01, and he just let it be swept under the rug.  He failed morally and possibly legally (although at this point, with him being dead and all, that part is kind of a moot point).  His legacy is not just tarnished but completely destroyed (they should rename the library - seriously - he doesn't deserve to be remembered in any positive way) and the football program is tarnished pretty much irredeemably and forever.  The university can perhaps redeem itself, but not if they keep clinging to the notion that this was just a matter of a few bad apples - this was a deeply rooted institutional problem that was caused by everyone at Penn State and all their fans, for the worship that they offered Joe which made him feel unaccountable to anyone but himself.  I'll even take some blame myself, even as a casual fan, for making the same mistake everyone else did and trusting the man unconditionally.  If there is one thing to learn from this, it's that nobody deserves that level of adoration - even the "best" people are capable of making huge, horrendous mistakes.

Allons-y!

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Re: blech

thefadd.

Thu Jul 12, 2012 at 06:07:57 PM EST

none

I've never liked Penn State and never got why people from Philly adopted them as our local team but I suppose they were desperate for some college football. Or any winning football, really, some decades. Anyway, it seems an overreaction to hold "institutions" responsible for the actions of individuals. It's just intellectual lazy.

The idea that it "doesn't square" is also intellectually laziness. Plenty of people do good works and have hidden skeletons. Sometimes they do the good things out of guilt; sometimes the bad things are uncontrollable compulsions they don't get help for even though they do mean well.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: blech

port1080.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 07:30:08 AM EST

none

I've never liked Penn State and never got why people from Philly adopted them as our local team

Penn State draws students from all over the state, and their graduates get jobs all over the state.  My two cousins grew up in the Allentown area, went to Penn State, and now both live in the Philadelphia area.  I'm sure this is not uncommon.  

Anyway, it seems an overreaction to hold "institutions" responsible for the actions of individuals. It's just intellectual lazy.

I disagree - saying that this was an institutional problem doesn't eliminate the personal guilt at the individual level, but it helps explain how people got away with it.  EVERYONE (well, nearly everyone) at Penn State turned a blind eye towards everything associated with the football program.  Spanier, et. al. couldn't have engaged in a cover-up so easily if people like the janitor weren't worried about the social and employment related repercussions of coming forward.  That guy wasn't worried about Paterno firing him in the dead of night with no one else knowing - he was worried that Paterno would and could fire him quite publicly, and nobody would question it and everyone would support Paterno, no matter what the circumstances (and it turns out, I'd say, that the janitor was largely right - look at how people still cling to their support for Paterno even now that incontrovertible, completely damning evidence has been revealed).

Plenty of people do good works and have hidden skeletons. Sometimes they do the good things out of guilt; sometimes the bad things are uncontrollable compulsions they don't get help for even though they do mean well.

I think that was kind of my point.

The idea that it "doesn't square" is also intellectually laziness.

You're saying that you're such a complete skeptic of all people that you've never been surprised to find out someone you thought was above reproach had made a bunch of horrible decisions in his or her life?  I thought I was a super skeptic, but it turns out I had a blind spot.  I guess you could call it intellectual laziness, but I think most people have a blind spot like that for at least a few people (trusting folks, for a lot of people).  Even if you  know that someone like Paterno could do bad things (or be doing good things for a bad reason), finding out for certain about it will cause some cognitive dissonance for most people.

Allons-y!

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Re: blech

improper.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 09:22:17 AM EST

none

I doubt you would consider it an overreaction if you were one of the kids that got raped by Sandusky and while you were getting raped a jaintor walked by, saw it happen, and did nothing about it. I don't know why it's so easy to degrade the severity of child rape, especially in regards to a whole organization letting it happen, and even at times condoning it.

Also, imagine the kind of power these guys had, imagine that they got away for a long time with covering up child rape... what else they did cover up?

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Re: blech

thefadd.

Fri Jul 20, 2012 at 06:27:56 AM EST

none

As a victim of childhood sexual abuse I do consider it an overreaction and I do consider accepting money as compensation for ones trauma to be a whorish payoff. I doubt they covered anything else up beyond the usual alumni payoffs, sex for incoming recruits, damming medical records of kids they coerced into playing hurt etc.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Points After Smackdown

uncarved block.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 10:20:06 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

    I would like to add, perhaps humbly, perhaps not, a little perspective on the situation. First off, most of the folks I knew in academia knew quite well that they were in a vulnerable position if a student decided to make a false accusation- or a true one!- when it came to inappropriate sexual contact, or even suggestion. Though they don't often act like it, football programs are part of a university setting, and that makes administration inaction even more damning than it might be at, say, a large corporation. Add in that football coaches, from what I understand, are expected to have way more impact and knowledge about their kids and coworkers than even teachers on campus, and the notion that Paterno didn't know (as his family has stated) what Sandusky was doing becomes highly untenable.
     When it comes to Sandusky, what struck me during the trial was just how active he was. It wasn't as if the university failed to catch a guy who diddled a kid every five years or so-- Sandusky sounds like he was frequently cultivating his next target(s) even while consummating his current crime. Add in getting caught in the showers (how many times did he not get caught?) and I get the image that this man knew very well just how secure his position was, even if there had been a couple setbacks. This could be out of a serious lack of respect for the abilities of those who were supposed to keep an eye on him, but I believe Sandusky knew well just how willing the heads of a major football program are willing to look the other way.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

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Re: Points After Smackdown

joshv.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 10:34:36 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

I don't think Sandusky knew or cared that anyone was protecting him - he honestly seems to think he's done nothing wrong.  The guy is sick and delusional.

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How Much, Is The Question

uncarved block.

Sat Jul 14, 2012 at 10:44:02 AM EST

none

    I don't think we can get too far trying to delve into the mind of a sociopath too much, so we are unlikely to agree on the context in which Sandusky viewed his own actions. I would point out, though, that he seemed to know quite clearly that what he was doing was highly illegal, and made persistent and concerted efforts to keep the kids from going public with what had happened. It seems hard to believe that a man who made that much effort with the victims never thought much about the people who were in place to catch him-- and he certainly gave folks around him a lot of chances to do so, from what the trial revealed.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

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Re: Points After Smackdown

thefadd.

Fri Jul 20, 2012 at 06:36:27 AM EST

none

I don't think he thinks he's done nothing wrong. He exhibits clear physical ticks of an individual racked by internal guilt. His own sexual trauma must be exceptionally deep. But it does seem rather clear to me that his compulsion was so strong that he did not consider consequences or think to the step of needing/caring about being protected. But as has been said this is all an amazing amount of conjecture. People have an incredible ability to section off sexual encounters from the rest of their lives. Sandusky and Paterno could have been tucking each others brains out and never functionally acknowledged it.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: Points After Smackdown

joshv.

Fri Jul 20, 2012 at 07:43:45 AM EST

none

" Sandusky and Paterno could have been tucking each others brains out and never functionally acknowledged it."

Thanks for that mental picture.  It will haunt me until the end of my days.

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Re: Points After Smackdown

thefadd.

Fri Jul 20, 2012 at 03:14:04 PM EST

none

Once it came into my head, I couldn't not share. I got toward the end of that post and it just popped out. Personally, I'm picturing Sandusky on top with the old loose skin of Paterno's face jiggling around his eyes as they roll back.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

9

This just in

Ephraim Gadsby.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 05:33:48 PM EST

5.00 (funny, funny)

The Joe Paterno statue at Penn State will be removed and replaced with this statue from Seattle's Olympic Sculpture Park.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

pO157.

Fri Jul 13, 2012 at 08:59:25 PM EST

none

This is an absolute travesty. I was one of the people who initially felt that the firing of Paterno was unjustified because it was simply a last ditch attempt by the President to avoid the blame in the situation. Like port1080, I thought that of all people, Joe Paterno could never be involved in something like this. Everybody else, sure. Well, it turns out that obviously they all had to know. And that's unacceptable. I can't imagine what possessed them to turn a blind eye to this garbage. It's not like they even tried to control the guy - get him professional help, keep him away from children, anything. That's completely insane. The NCAA should shut down the PSU football program, let all the athletes transfer elsewhere and just call it a day. Cut the board, cut all the administrators. Fire everybody even tangentially involved. Of course, none of this can make the horror that the victims went through any better, but it's a first step. A first step that should have been taken a long time ago. I mean, this crap was going on back when I was in high school. Outrageous.

I don't know what else to say.

On a related note, I was considering going to online school for a M.A. in Criminal Justice, part time. Penn State's World Campus was on the list. Looks like I can scratch that one from the running. I wonder if the number of applications and such they get will decrease over the next few years?

America! I could teach you, but I'd have to charge.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

HidingFromGoro.

Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 11:05:25 PM EST

none

You're definitely on the right track- institutional problems require institutional solutions.  The case is also an extremely tragic example of privilege in full effect.

I got more styles than prison got bricks- ain't that some shit?

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

Gaius Petronius.

Sun Jul 15, 2012 at 02:39:49 PM EST

none

And now there are calls to review how the Culture of Denial at Penn State affected other investigations.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

Anywhere.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:40:42 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

Full disclosure: My undergrad was at Penn State.  While I enjoyed football weekends, I rarely went to the games my last couple of years there.  I also, as a res life employee, found the football players to be amongst the most cooperative in dealing with the requirements-- both legit and stupid-- that we were required to impose.  For example, if I got a noise complaint about a party and it was being thrown by a football player, all I had to do was find a football player and he would get it under control; if it was a non-football party, I had a hell of a time just finding someone who would admit to knowing anyone who lived there.

Anyway, my two cents on the Freeh report:

  1. Prior to the report, I thought it highly unlikely that Paterno didn't know what was going on.  That said, a lot of people seem to be saying that even if you didn't believe so beforehand, you can't, in the face of the report, say Paterno didn't know.  I'm trying to figure out what the damning evidence is.  No interviews of the major players.  The only thing that seems to implicate Paterno is three emails from Curley, only one of which unequivocally reference a discussion with Paterno; that one was in 2001 which would still be in line with Paterno's previous sworn testimony.  Admittedly, I haven't read the whole report but have only paid attention to the news to see what specific mentions of Paterno were in it.

  2. I wouldn't object at all if Penn State football gets the death penalty.  The only argument I can see against it is that NCAA sanctions are generally used to punish things that can't be punished with the legal system; I hardly find that compelling.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

Gaius Petronius.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:52:13 PM EST

none

I'm beginning to hear that the Paterno family are planning their own investigation to discover the exonerating evidence they think the  Freeh report missed. How they intend to pay for it is not discussed.

The problem with some sort of instituional "death penalty" is that everybody has too much to loose if nobody plays. The NCAA and whatever conference Penn State plays in needs them to drum up business; it sounds like half of PA depends on the football program to pay the light bill. I'm also sure that the inevitable lawsuits will not be charged to the athletic department but rather be taken out of the hide of the thousands of students who don't play football. When can we expect the preemptive tuition increases?

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

Anywhere.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:58:28 PM EST

none

How they intend to pay for it is not discussed.

At the moment, Sue Paterno is still collecting Joe Paterno's pension.  Also, they lived a middle class lifestyle and gave a lot of his salary back to the university, but they certainly weren't poor.

it sounds like half of PA depends on the football program to pay the light bill.

There is no doubt in my mind that losing a football season would drive State College, and possibly all of central PA minus Harrisburg, into a recession.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

pO157.

Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:12:49 PM EST

none

"There is no doubt in my mind that losing a football season would drive State College, and possibly all of central PA minus Harrisburg, into a recession."

That's tough.

And I say that as somebody who graduated from a college in the area and has a significant number of inlaws and friends in the area.

America! I could teach you, but I'd have to charge.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

Anywhere.

Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 07:25:16 AM EST

none

It wasn't an argument against doing it.  It was just an observation on Gaius Petronius's comment.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

thefadd.

Fri Jul 20, 2012 at 06:47:24 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

The NCAA death penalty is only the ridiculous example of a completely dysfunctional NCAA system. It only ever serves to punish those who are left which by the time the firings/retirements/quittings (depending on the given circumstance) are done are only people without culpability. New outside hires at AD, head coach etc are only going to help change the culture and if they aren't the death penalty isn't going to do anything to combat that. In the mean time why punish student athletes who weren't even in college last year? The hideous unfairness of the NCAA system is disgraceful and it has no moral standing to punish anyone especially while it continues to make money on slave labor.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

Gaius Petronius.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 10:42:53 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

If Sandusky were an english teacher molesting children attending poetry camp, would the fine have been assessed by the Modern Language Association instead of the NCAA? While any shit piled on PSU is fine by me, I do wonder where a private consortium of athletic programs gets the right to adjudicate a ciminal case. Of course, there is the satisfaction that the punishment was administered quickly and without legal due process, but wanna bet this will be spun out as sufficient penalty to obviate the need for the real courts to do anything?

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

thefadd.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 03:51:24 PM EST

none

You mean like prosecute Sandusky and put him in jail forever? Yeah, it's a shame that'll never happen. Thank god for the NCAA.

(The idea of the MLA handing down sanctions in such a case is pretty brilliantly hilarious, though.)

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

zyxwvutsr.

Tue Jul 24, 2012 at 07:36:56 PM EST

5.00 (affected)

The word he was looking for was "effect."

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

Shy Elf.

Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 08:40:19 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

If you were talking about team poetry competitions, then perhaps.  The idea is that in a zero-sum team competitive environment, people will be willing to do things in order to win the competition which they wouldn't normally do, up to and including ignoring child rape.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

improper.

Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 09:53:46 AM EST

none

If Sandusky were an english teacher molesting children attending poetry camp, would the fine have been assessed by the Modern Language Association instead of the NCAA?

If pretty much the whole poetry camp was complicit in covering up/ignoring the molestation. That's really what happened with Penn State. The NCAA (though I really don't give a shit about college sports and could even give less shit about Penn State because frankly Penn State people are incredibly annoying) was punishing the school for doing NOTHING about it. One more time: KIDS GOT RAPED AND NOTHING HAPPENED => Because the football program is on god-level.

P.S. I am enjoying meeting Penn State alumni and asking them if they got molested by Sandusky as well, that shit is hilarious and very satisfying.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

Anywhere.

Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:04:04 AM EST

none

frankly Penn State people are incredibly annoying

Clearly, sir, you have not had enough exposure to SEC fans.  Or Ohio State.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

improper.

Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:09:16 AM EST

none

I don't know who you got through it. I just read your post and I was like "fuck I shouldn't have said that" and then I thought "well he is exception". I mean for a guy like you, you must've been like inches away from going mad with the people there. I bet you were like "okay one more semester, almost out of here... just one more."

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

Anywhere.

Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:30:00 AM EST

none

Aw, it wasn't so bad.  I was 21+ the whole time I was there*, so I had no need to interact with the fraternities which is where a lot of the douchebaggery was housed.  If I have time later today, I'll tell you my story of when they brought their douchebaggery to my doorstep though.

*The second time.  I went for a couple of semesters, left to join the Army, and then went back for ROTC.

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Re: Penn State Child Rape Scandal: Everybody fucki

improper.

Wed Jul 25, 2012 at 10:09:49 AM EST

none

But point taken on Ohio State.

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