Politics

Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

novy.

Posted to Politics on Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 08:30:50 AM EST (promoted from Diaries by port1080). RSS.

After weeks of speculation about whom Mitt Romney would choose for his vice presidential running mate, it looks like Paul Ryan, 42-year old Congressman and House Budget Committee Chair, has been chosen to be No. 2.

WSJ loves Romney's choice and other conservatives can be expected to agree.

Will this pick work for Romney? Will Obama vs. Romney turn into Republicans vs. Medicare, or will Romney's choice fire up his base better than any other possible selection? Plainly Romney plans to champion serious fiscal conservatism, and that should work for Tea Partiers. But will it work for America?

Tags: written by novy (all tags)

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1

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

gerrymander.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 02:25:45 AM EST

none

Plainly Romney plans to champion serious fiscal conservatism, and that should work for Tea Partiers. But will it work for America?

Practically, yes. Unsustainable situations by definition will not be sustained.

Politically? We'll see in a few months.

Personally, I'd pick Helium. A squeaky little fellow who brings you cupcakes in your darkest hour would be an invaluable asset.

8

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

novy.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 09:43:59 AM EST

none

Excessive government spending can never be sustainable, unless of course we mean to refer to World Wars or multiple Republican presidents in late 20th century America.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

buffalopete.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:57:02 AM EST

none

World Wars or multiple Republican presidents in late 20th century America.

Unsustainable. And obviously so. What did you mean by this comment?

Buffalo Pete: Raving batshit loony? Or HOPE FOR MAN???
(I may be that guy.)

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

novy.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:31:22 AM EST

none

When America fights really big wars, it doesn't care how much it has to borrow to win.

When Reagan, Bush Sr or Bush Jr runs up giant deficits, most Republicans don't care how much their champions borrow, "sustainable" or not.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

buffalopete.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:23:20 AM EST

none

most Republicans don't care

Ah. This is the part I was missing. Thanks for clarifying.

Buffalo Pete: Raving batshit loony? Or HOPE FOR MAN???
(I may be that guy.)

2

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 07:33:17 AM EST

none

Bold choice.  Since people in Wisconsin  have died from cancer years after seeing Ryan on television, Obama will no doubt run ads claiming cancer causing Paul Ryan will kill more people than hitler if he is elected and receives national television  exposure. No doubt Senator McCarthy, I mean Reid, also has been told that Ryan molests collies and will keep repeating it until Ryan can prove  otherwise.

Tough to run against a president with no scruples.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

novy.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 09:45:01 AM EST

1.00 (partisan)

Gosh, you Republicans really resent it when Democrats steal your strategies.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

ckm.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:15:05 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

Name a president with scruples.  Any president, even a non-US one.  

Lack of scruples is a requirement for pretty much any top job, even Pope.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:00:08 AM EST

none

Start from the top. George Washington.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

thefadd.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 12:33:20 PM EST

none

Thomas Jefferson.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

ckm.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:14:06 PM EST

none

Just don't mention Sally Hemmings....

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Ephraim Gadsby.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 12:41:34 PM EST

none

It's unlikely TJ banged her. Even if he did, it's not immoral to snake a black chick.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Anywhere.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 01:20:57 PM EST

none

It is when it's rape.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Ephraim Gadsby.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 01:32:16 PM EST

none

You assume rape because black women are notably inclined toward chasteness?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Anywhere.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 01:59:53 PM EST

none

Because she was legally his property.  Was "no" an option?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Ephraim Gadsby.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 02:08:22 PM EST

none

A lot of women are attracted to rich and powerful men, and want to procreate with them to secure advantages to their children.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Anywhere.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 02:16:28 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

Advantages like being his slaves?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Ephraim Gadsby.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 03:08:05 PM EST

none

You think all slaves were treated the same and did the same things? Your children receiving favorable treatment and high placement in the slave hierarchy is an advantage. Increasing the whiteness of your children is an advantage, too,

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

ckm.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:13:00 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Please, Washington? Scruples?  

You mean like promising your slaves freedom when you're dead and can't profit from them anymore?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_washington#Slavery

Sure, he was mostly an honorable guy, better than most, but when it came down to putting his own money down to uphold what he claimed was a basic ideal, he was just as unscrupulous as the next guy.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 02:51:54 PM EST

none

I was talking about Washington's conduct as President since that's what is at issue.  Regardless, I'm not aware of Washington ever promising to free slaves while he was alive and reneging or self righteously pontificating to the public at large that he would free his slaves while alive and sneering and at those who refused to.

Jefferson and his followers leveled all sorts of malicious charges at  Washington during his second term and he refused to respond let alone l retaliate by wildly claiming Jefferson killed people or was a criminal.  Some Presidents try and live up to the office, some drag the office down to their level.

3

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Otto Maddox.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 08:01:22 AM EST

none

Guess I should put a few bucks into cat food futures.

Just in case.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on his not understanding it" ~Sinclair

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

novy.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 09:48:44 AM EST

none

Hey, old people can always move to Panama or Costa Rica. I hear it can be lovely in San Jose this time of year.

4

Boilerplate, Plus

uncarved block.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 08:39:17 AM EST

5.00 (astute, astute)

     To repeat an earlier post: the days when a VP choice meant a damn thing (1) are long, long gone, so in that respect, this choice won't "work" for Romney. If the election is all about swing voters, what does Ryan bring to the table? Everyone who already knows who he is undoubtedly has a strong opinion about Ryan, and it's a bit late in the game for any attempt to rehabilitate Romney's image with those swing voters who have doubts. And the notion that you need Ryan to "fire up the base" is pretty much an admission that Romney's going to lose . . .
     The interesting take for me is this-- Romney has been playing it coy, to say the least, when it comes to what he might actually, ya know, DO if he manages to win the election(2), so this is as clear an action as I've seen so far. It ain't good news for conservatives, near as I can tell, as the VP is notoriously an office presidents use to bury politicians that might get in the way. Y'all can connect the dots yourself from here.
     One thing I wonder about is what exactly Ryan gets out of this. If Romney wins, he gets more or less removed from being able to do anything about the budget, and if he loses, Ryan gains . . what? I guess it depends if you think of the VP nomination in the "one heartbeat away" sense rather than the "warm bucket of spit" way, but that's dicey, to say the least.

    (1) As a positive, that is. The choice of Palin last cycle shows a VP can still drag down a candidate, although it's less than clear McCain had much of a shot anyway, with the millstone of two Bush terms around his neck.

   (2) Which is good politics, don't get me wrong. It was clear early on that being "not Obama" was Romney's best shot at winning, and any details were going to be even more distracting than normal for a challenger.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

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Re: Boilerplate, Plus

port1080.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 08:42:17 AM EST

none

It ain't good news for conservatives, near as I can tell, as the VP is notoriously an office presidents use to bury politicians that might get in the way.

Good catch, I wish I'd read your post before I got myself caught up in the hype and wrote mine.

Allons-y!

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Re: Boilerplate, Plus

Otto Maddox.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 04:50:15 PM EST

5.00 (interesting)

Or, It could merely be a cynical ploy to get the spotlight off of Romney, Bain, et al, at any cost. Change the focus off of what Willard has done, or possibly will do*

* if he ever decides to make any cogent policy proposals.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on his not understanding it" ~Sinclair

5

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

port1080.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 08:39:46 AM EST

none

Have to say I'm a bit surprised.  This is definitely a big middle finger to social conservatives and the south...actually it makes me wonder if those two pieces of the base, long considered to be the key demographics of the Republican party, have fallen by the wayside.  The McCain-Palin ticket didn't really give them much either (Palin was a social conservative, sure, but it wasn't really her "thing" until she got on a national ticket and McCain needed her to emphasize it to make up for his own deficits).  Of course, the other way to look at it is that social conservatives have so cowed the rest of the party that it doesn't matter who gets nominated, because they'll take so-con positions anyway (certain Romney and Ryan both claim to be solidly pro-life, anti gay marriage, etc).  I will give Romney huge points here for honesty, though - he's basically signalling he's all in on the issue of the economy and the budget, and he's giving America a vision that starkly contrasts with what Obama has to offer.  This isn't weasel-word "compassionate conservatism" here or McCain's...well, what the fuck did McCain stand for?  I don't think anyone really knew, did they, which was kind of the problem?  Anyway, I like it.  I obviously would prefer for Obama to win, but I like the fact that if Romney wins, it will be because he articulated a clear vision for how the federal government should work, and voters chose that over what Obama had to offer.  Not just because he took the safe road, stayed out of trouble, and waited for Obama to screw up and hand him the election (and considering the economy, that probably would have been the higher odds path to winning the election, and is honestly what I expect him to do...I was thinking we'd get Portman or some other very bland VP choice).  The next few months will be a lot more interesting than I thought they'd be two days ago.

Allons-y!

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

gerrymander.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 05:04:27 PM EST

none

This is definitely a big middle finger to social conservatives and the south

Not necessarily. A strong fiscal conservative pick allows the campaign the option of having Ryan keep on with the economic theme, while Romney addresses social or foreign issues. Not to say that's the way they'll play it, but the option is there.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

port1080.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 05:38:07 PM EST

none

Socons will never trust Romney - he's not a Christian.  Don't underestimate that.

Allons-y!

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 11:35:55 AM EST

none

After four years of Obama, I don't think the Republicans are worried about social conservative turn out for the Republicans for the next generation.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

HidingFromGoro.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 08:49:30 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

For socons the dealbreaker is abortion and Ryan doesn't' lose any points there.  The pick definitely doesn't do anything to help Romney win Florida, but it should help shore up support among younger voters across the country who think they aren't going to get Medicare anyway.

It's risky though, because up until now the election was basically going to be a referendum on Obama's first term (which let's be honest, has been pretty terrible) but now it's going to be a referendum on the Ryan budget and the weird things he says/does/believes, like that video of him having a 71yo dude thrown out and then talking shit, etc.

I got more styles than prison got bricks- ain't that some shit?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

natophonic.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 05:03:06 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Socons can also rest assured: Ryan identifies with Thomas Aquinas, not that vile atheist Ayn Rand. Well sure, many of us (ahem! cough!) read Atlas Shrugged when we were 14 and dug the hell out of it. OK, so 2005 is a bit late in the game for Ryan to claim a youthful indiscretion. Maybe it was an ideological mid-life crisis Corvette. Or something.

Or maybe socons haven't lost their grip on the GOP whatsoever, and this is one of the ways Ryan and Romney 'get' each other.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

novy.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 09:41:12 PM EST

none

To social conservatives? How? Ryan has to be considered as socially conservative as anyone. He has voted for legislation to declare fertilised human eggs full-fledged human beings, even (especially) if that means restricting rights of women. How socially conservative does this guy have to be to get credit for it?

7

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

port1080.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 08:45:10 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

Isn't 7am on a Saturday a really bizarre time to announce this, by the way?  What a way to lose a news cycle...if something else comes along by Monday morning this might not even be the lead story.  I don't think it matters that much long term, but it strikes me as a complete abandonment of normal press management, no?

Allons-y!

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 10:04:39 AM EST

none

It was terrible timing on Romney part....

Coincedentally, I just read the latest installment of  Caro's LBJ's biography and he describes LBJ's shock  believe that Goldwater announced the atart of his campaign on a Friday afternoon. I think this might actually be worse.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

HidingFromGoro.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 08:55:27 PM EST

5.00 (astute, astute)

It's not that bad of a strategy, release it over a weekend while the Olympics closing ceremonies are going on.  By Monday it will be "old news," Romney's taxes & actions at Bain will be forgotten- plus they will have had time to see what the most popular criticisms of Ryan are, so they'll have rebuttals ready.  

The message they need is not "is Ryan a good choice?" the one they need is "it's a done deal, let's get to work on winning the election."

I got more styles than prison got bricks- ain't that some shit?

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Wha?

uncarved block.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:49:58 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

Romney's taxes and actions at Bain will be forgotten

     Well, that's the hope, but it's a foolish hope. People will still vote for the top of the ticket, not second banana, and then all the inherent weaknesses of Romney the candidate will be right back on the table.

let's get to work winning the election

    The more I thought about it reading the press reactions, the more it occurred to me that Ryan may end up being the choice that nailed the coffin closed on a campaign that was looking dicey anyway. Every day spent talking about deficit reduction is a day not spent talking about jobs, and that was Romney's only real hope as a campaign message. I was thinking about mocking the efforts of Romney's campaign staff, but really, it looks like they're making the most of a terrible situation.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

12

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 11:16:30 AM EST

none

It's funny when Catholic nuns criticize your budget.

Also the guy has held no private sector job in his life, that's the great for Rmoney and his private sector experience boasts.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

zyxwvutsr.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 11:37:32 AM EST

none

It's especially funny when those nuns can't remember Matthew 22:21 and have received a smackdown from the Vatican.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 11:45:38 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

Isn't Matt 22:21 a great argument for taxes?

Also, is it a smackdown or a spiteful distraction when the Vatican still has to deal with male priests molesting and raping children?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tomc.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 01:28:16 AM EST

none

How does that quote from Matthew relate to the LCWR?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

zyxwvutsr.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 08:26:02 AM EST

none

It is advise against entering into politics.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 09:09:06 AM EST

none

I guess the Vatican ignored that advice for the last... forever.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

zyxwvutsr.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 09:36:25 AM EST

none

That fact doesn't make the nuns' criticism of the Ryan budget valid.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 09:59:21 AM EST

none

It doesn't make it invalid either. As you noted, it was "advise." But really it wasn't about staying in or out of government matters (I don't know how you as a literalist read such ambiguity out of that), it was about paying taxes. As in you should pay your taxes to God and to Caesar.  

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tomc.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 04:58:31 PM EST

none

"It is advise against entering into politics."

Depends how you read it.

The Catholic Church has been involved ion politics for centuries.

Having said that, the LCWR is simply following their charter - helping the poor and destitute.  It doesn't seem out of line to me for them to issue a statement saying, "Mr. Ryan, you're not helping."

Are you ok with church leaders telling the laity that they should only vote for politicians who oppose abortion? Or do you put that under the same category as what the LCWR has done?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

gerrymander.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 08:11:48 PM EST

none

It doesn't seem out of line to me for them to issue a statement saying, "Mr. Ryan, you're not helping."

Your opinion (or mine) on this matters significantly less than the Pope's.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tomc.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 09:57:59 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

"Your opinion (or mine) on this matters significantly less than the Pope's."

The Pope and the LCWR may have their disagreements/misunderstandings, but I'm pretty sure Pope Benny thinks the same way they do about Ryan's budget proposal.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

gerrymander.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 11:59:32 PM EST

none

One does not become the leader of a 2000-year-old organization without some understanding about the natures of structural economic deficit and catastrophic collapse.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tomc.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 01:43:33 AM EST

none

Are you suggesting that the current Pope supports Ryan's budget proposal?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

gerrymander.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:37:44 PM EST

none

I have no idea what the Pope thinks about Ryan's budget proposal -- and unless you've spoken with him, neither do you.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:49:39 PM EST

none

But wait, you can't presume the Pope's opinion about Ryan's budget proposal (though tomc is saying through scriptural interpretation he can) but you have no qualms about his expertise in "the natures of structural economic deficit."

Maybe you're right, because it seems the Vatican has no problems with running deficits:

The Vatican has registered one of its worst budget deficits in years, plunging back into the red with a 15 million euro ($19 million) deficit in 2011 after a brief respite of profit.

The Vatican on Thursday blamed the poor outcome on high personnel and communications costs and adverse market conditions, particularly for its real estate holdings.

Not even a 50 million euro gift to the pope from the Vatican bank and increased donations from dioceses and religious orders could offset the expenses and poor investment returns, the Vatican said in its annual financial report.

The Vatican said it ran a 14.9 million euro deficit in 2011 after posting a surplus of 9.85 million euro in 2010. The 2010 surplus, however, was something of an anomaly. In 2009 the Vatican ran a deficit of 4.01 million euro, in 2008 the deficit was 0.9 million euro and in 2007 it was nearly 9.1 million euro.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tomc.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:44:58 PM EST

none

I can assure you he's not impressed with it.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Haggis.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 05:59:15 AM EST

none

Which explains why the leadership of this 2,000 year old institution consistently turned a blind eye to the ongoing "hide the host sextravaganza" priests were conducting with their altar boys.  

I am shitfitter; hear me roar.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:12:40 AM EST

none

The Pope has a MBA from HBS?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

thefadd.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 12:39:36 PM EST

none

O.T. but pope plus MBA reminds me of a conversation I was having in a bar the other night...this dude was arguing against religion and spirituality, typical elitist, "logic" based liberal crap. He was repeatedly claim to have a degree "in science," to which I retorted, "what -- social science?" when he could never get around to specifying which science. He provided the real clincher himself, however, when a third gentleman countered the science degree claim with a claim of his own. He said: "I have an MBA."

Mr. Science's response: "In what?"

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:06:22 PM EST

none

You know you can have MBAs in different concentrations, right?

Drexel concentration list.

BTW, religion and spirituality are corny, I bet he was a cool guy.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

thefadd.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 12:02:05 AM EST

none

a concentration isn't a degree. but, then again, neither is a degree from drexel

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:46:04 AM EST

none

No man, you're thinking about a certification.

A concentration with a MBA means out of 40 credits needed for a MBA, half of them or so are 'concentrated' to a particular subject in business like Accounting or Finance.

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Bring back the Dark Ages!!!!

Otto Maddox.

Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 07:04:37 AM EST

none

Nice to see conservatives out of the closet about the anti-thinking thing.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on his not understanding it" ~Sinclair

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Re: Bring back the Dark Ages!!!!

thefadd.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 12:00:04 AM EST

none

intellectualism is for dummies

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: Bring back the Dark Ages!!!!

Otto Maddox.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:58:54 PM EST

none

And Commander Cuckoo Bananas was the final word on policy via gut-feeling.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends on his not understanding it" ~Sinclair

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 12:15:10 PM EST

none

Also the guy has held no private sector job in his life

Its like electing a guy who never held a full time job for four years President. Impossible to believe the country could be that stupid.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

HidingFromGoro.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 09:24:59 PM EST

none

If ~the private sector~ is really so different from politics, then why would anyone want to elect a politician with no political experience?

Michael Jordan was a hell of a basketball player, but if you wanted a baseball player wouldn't you choose a baseball player?

I got more styles than prison got bricks- ain't that some shit?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:14:57 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

This becomes an issue when the politician is claiming his private sector experience makes him a better politician. That's exactly what Romney and by proxy, Paul Ryan are claiming.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

thefadd.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 12:43:44 PM EST

none

This brings up a point that's been bugging me for awhile. Whoever the hell it is that runs the San Antonio Spurs needs to be running everything -- the economy, the country, everything. Seriously, do you ever hear about who runs the Spurs? And yet they're awesome all the time. For no real explicable reason. They come from a "small market," there's no reason for mafiosi David Stern to cheat for them like he does New York and LA -- whoever runs them must just be good.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:22:55 PM EST

none

This is funny:

Three years ago, Mitt Romney proposed a constitutional amendment that would say "the president has to spend three years working in business before he becomes president of the United States. Then he or she would understand that the policies they are putting into place have to encourage small business to grow."

As Andrew Kaczsynski notes, that provision would disqualify Paul Ryan, who has spent his life working for the government, first as a congressional staffer and then as a congressman.

BTW, the one thing I never understood about the GOP's craze over small government is... why are they even running for government? Why are they even in government? If they want small government then they shouldn't run for government at all and just do everything they can to become big in the private sector.

It's hilarious to me that a life-long politician like Paul Ryan is for small government when all the guy has ever done is collect checks from being involved in government.

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Anywhere.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:48:02 PM EST

none

What qualifies as "working in business" anyway?  I had a paper route for the five years before I left home for college, and then my brother "inherited" it.  Technically, that even meant I was in business for myself.  Would that qualify me for president?

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Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

HidingFromGoro.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:15:03 PM EST

5.00 (astute, funny, brilliant)

You're a Job Creator!

I got more styles than prison got bricks- ain't that some shit?

85

^ 64

Meat Products for the Win

cloudofdust.

Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 09:22:11 AM EST

none

Paul Ryan spent a summer selling turkey bacon and Lunchables and once drove the Oscar Mayer Weinermobile. Clearly the man has the business experience necessary to be one heartbeat away from the presidency.

Although the turkey bacon thing sounds suspiciously socialistic.

86

^ 85

Re: Meat Products for the Win

indecentspeech.

Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 12:20:18 PM EST

none

97

^ 64

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

thefadd.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 12:09:25 AM EST

none

Do you really believe the words you're writing? For all your worship of "thinking" how can what you just wrote strike you as the least bit logical? If you want a small government, be in government and then vote no all the time. They call him Dr. No. Whether you like him or not, if we had more Congressman like him, we'd have a smaller government. He's even voted against pay raises for himself! That's small government.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

16

Hilarious!

Acefantastik.

Sat Aug 11, 2012 at 12:31:04 PM EST

5.00 (informative)

I congratulate Mitt Romney on his excellent political acumen--it takes real insight to pick a leadership figure of  widely reviled Congress who personfies all sorts of negative tropes about Republicans!  

Then again, this could be the cunning move that keeps Romney from finishing 3rd. Its your move, Gary Johnson!  

20

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tomc.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 01:28:56 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

When is Obama going to choose his VP running mate?

33

^ 20

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

novy.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 09:46:21 PM EST

none

In 2008.

34

^ 33

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tomc.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 09:48:56 PM EST

none

I was afraid of that.

88

^ 34

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

zyxwvutsr.

Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 01:46:08 PM EST

5.00 (bound)

93

^ 88

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tomc.

Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:49:45 PM EST

5.00 (kinky)

Actually, that's the best line I've heard so far in this election season.

99

^ 93

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

zyxwvutsr.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 07:40:42 AM EST

none

Yeah, it's almost a perfect political slogan: empty of objective meaning and completely lacking in intellectual rigor.

111

^ 99

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tomc.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 04:13:05 PM EST

none

Those are the best kind!

I worked in a campaign once where the slogan was, "Do you want to move forward into the future, or backward into the past?"

We won.

112

^ 99

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 05:19:22 PM EST

none

Perfect religious slogan as well.

36

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

tinsguy.

Sun Aug 12, 2012 at 11:40:14 PM EST

5.00 (informative, informative)

Paul Ryan:

Voted YES on TARP (2008)
Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler (Dec 2008)
Voted YES on $192B additional stimulus spending (Jul 2009)
Voted YES on Medicare Part D prescription drug expansion (2003)
Voted YES on $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on No Child Left Behind further nationalizing education (2001)
Voted YES on Head Start Act (2007)

I'd say that's quite a bit of "food for thought" for Republicans to think about this election.  

45

^ 36

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

cloudofdust.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:15:57 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

And yet the narrative remains that Republicans are the party of fiscal conservatism and responsibility.

Have to give it up for the Repubs, their reality distortion skills are unsurpassed.

47

^ 36

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

novy.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:23:21 AM EST

5.00 (astute)

So, you mean he was in George W. Bush's pocket from minute one? And that should upset Republicans because ... ?

Meanwhile, since Obama took over, he has voted for embryos and against women's rights at every opportunity, he has been Republicans' point man on budget austerity, and he can probably be counted on to say and do whatever Romney wants him to.

Not really so much "food for thought" as Republicans don't do much of that type of thinking. Remember, Ronald Reagan was first in America to sign legislation legalising abortion, years before Roe v. Wade, and he ran Keynesian budget deficits during all eight of his years in office. Did Republicans care about those things when he was running for president?

48

^ 36

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Shy Elf.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:29:04 AM EST

5.00 (astute, astute)

Apparently you can spend as much as you want, but so long as you don't vote to fund any of it you're still a deficit hawk.  Or something.

51

^ 36

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:59:08 AM EST

none

So the argument is Ryan spent too much, so vote for the guy with trillion dollar defecits who blames Republicans for not letting him spend more?

Very compelling.

54

^ 51

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 10:23:56 AM EST

none

The argument seems more like on spending reduction, Ryan's track record shows he's a god-damn liar.

And that is very compelling (without sarcasm).

61

^ 54

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 01:59:03 PM EST

none

Ryan's track record shows he's a god-damn liar.

Oh. That works then. Because Obama has such a track record of keeping  promises. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/?page=1

So an economic conservative should support the god damn liar who promised to half the budget defecit it 4 years?

63

^ 61

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:09:32 PM EST

none

Was a Democratic congress holding a gun to Ryan's head when he was making those votes?

66

^ 63

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:45:01 PM EST

none

Was a Republican congress holding a gun to Obama's head during his first two years?  Obama and the Democrats had more power than any party/president in generations and he pissed it away.

71

^ 66

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:52:47 PM EST

none

I actually agree that he did piss away the power he had because he was attempting to be 'balanced' and reach across the isle, when he should've been like President Cheney and strong-armed whatever he wanted to do. But Republicans then would've spun that as him be a dictator.

79

^ 71

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 04:49:32 PM EST

none

So when he told Republicans that "elections have consequences" and ignored them during the stimulus negotiations that constituted reaching across the aisle? Or do you mean when he used the reconciliation process to avoid having to negotiate with Republicans to pass the AHCA?

President Cheney and strong-armed whatever

He must have been a miracle worker, to strong arm bills without democratic support when the Republicans never had anywhere near filibuster proof control of Congress at any point and were often in a minority? What a magician he was to strong arm a Democratic Senate to pass his tax cut bill.

67

^ 63

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Jackkeefe.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:45:01 PM EST

none

Was a Republican congress holding a gun to Obama's head during his first two years?  Obama and the Democrats had more power than any party/president in generations and he pissed it away.

68

^ 63

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:46:45 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

No. And that is why it should be impossible for the Democrats to paint Ryan as "extreme" when he is clearly a moderate.

72

^ 68

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:53:44 PM EST

5.00

Well they could just as well paint him as a partisan hack, who has no conviction or compass and is a lockstep party operative.

73

^ 68

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:54:41 PM EST

none

And anyway Ryan being a moderate is not dangerous for Democrats, it's dangerous for Ryan, as you have seen what the Republican party of late has done to its moderates.

74

^ 73

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 02:58:35 PM EST

none

Why does that matter?

75

^ 74

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:07:18 PM EST

none

Why does what matter?

76

^ 75

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

zyxwvutsr.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:13:06 PM EST

none

Why does it matter if he is insufficiently conservative?

77

^ 76

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 03:28:30 PM EST

none

Ask thefadd.

98

^ 77

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

thefadd.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 12:12:56 AM EST

none

Did I say Ryan is insufficiently conservative?

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

100

^ 98

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 09:29:21 AM EST

none

Is is sufficiently conservative?

58

^ 36

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Ephraim Gadsby.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 12:44:56 PM EST

none

42

your sarcasm is priceless!

thefadd.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 06:54:08 AM EST

none

"Romney plans to champion serious fiscal conservatism."

Omg I cant stop laughing. Holy shit that was a good one. Romney a conservative. That's classic!

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

46

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

indecentspeech.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 09:21:14 AM EST

5.00 (funny)

The coming of the GOP Messiah Paul Ryan, with abs of steel and veins of cheese, was foretold in the Book of Mormon.  

59

^ 46

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

thefadd.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 12:45:43 PM EST

none

Yeah, this is the one where they trot out Ryan to see if he has legs for 2016. This was a towel throw in.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

60

^ 59

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

Anywhere.

Mon Aug 13, 2012 at 01:22:56 PM EST

5.00 (funny)

So, seeing as this looks more and more like 2004 with the parties reversed, does that mean we should be on the look out for Ryan's love child?

94

^ 60

Re: Romney Chooses Ryan For Veep

thefadd.

Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 11:58:09 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

Well, there's only two choices -- he's either got a love child or he's gay.

I HAD HAD SEX WITH HUNTER S THOMPSON. HE CAME IN MY MOUTH AND I SWALLOWED IT. I SHOULD HAVE HAD HIS BABY. WE WOULD BE BALLIN' LIKE KOBE'S SON!!

87

^ 59

Re: Opposition Party

uncarved block.

Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 01:10:27 PM EST

5.00 (interesting, interesting)

they trot out Ryan to see if he has legs for 2016

    Given that being the sitting VP is considered a strike against you, I can't see how being a failed VP nominee can be anything but a death sentence, as far as the top office goes. (Something about "not being presidential enough" because you agreed to take a back seat, or some such.)  More likely this is Ryan's way of pulling a Feynman and letting the party bosses know that he has no intention of being shoved into a presidential run, if he doesn't want one.

    I'm sticking with my notion that this was Romney's way of removing a pesky deficit hawk from the landscape in the event he actually wins the election.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

89

^ 87

Re: Opposition Party

Jackkeefe.

Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 02:01:59 PM EST

5.00 (reversed, astute)

   Given that being the sitting VP is considered a strike against you,

That's silly.  Vice Presidential nominees are almost always frontrunners for their parties nomination in the future, if they want it.  Over the past generation Dole, Mondale ,George H.W. Bush, and Gore received their party's nomination. It's certainly a better springboard towards the Presidency than continuing as Representative Ryan. Who was the last representative to receive a major party's nomination?

91

^ 89

Half Empty

uncarved block.

Tue Aug 14, 2012 at 05:23:43 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

    I would note that only one of those men actually won the presidency, and that a couple of them are considered rather dismal failures, punchlines even, as candidates (Mondale and Dole, to be precise, though Gore might also slip on to the list depending who you ask.) Dole had also had nearly two decades for voters to forget he had once even been nominated as VP, but I'm unsure what that really means in this context.
     The best springboard to the presidency has historically been being Governor of a successful state, which may or may not have been Ryan's next step were he really interested in being president. Being a well know Representative would certainly help with that, eh?

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

92

^ 91

Re: Half Empty

Jackkeefe.

Wed Aug 15, 2012 at 03:39:35 PM EST

5.00 (astute)

I don't think its that clear cut that being a governor of a succesful state is the best springboard.  Over the last 50 years or so, I tihnk we can conservatively estimate their have been at least 100 governors who most would agree were successful.  Out of that number, only Reagan, Carter, Clinton, George W. Bush, Dukakis and Romney have received their party's  nomination.   In recent history , only a very small percentage of  sucessful govrernors have made the jump to receiving a presidential nomination.

In contrast, Kennedy, Nixon, LBJ, Hubert Hunphrey, Ford, Dole, Mondale, G.H.W. Bush and Gore received a party's nomination after being nominated as V.P. That's nine eventual nominees out of less than 25 that have either been nominated for V.P. and lost like Kennedy, or run for the Presidency after serving as V.P. like the first Bush.  For someone like Ryan, the odds of receiving the Republican nomination in the next couple cycles are infinitely higher if he runs runsg as V.P. as opppsed to waiting for Scott Walker to exit the governor's office, winning and election as governor and then creating a favorable record as governor.  If Romney loses, Ryan will be the odds-on favorite to win the Republican nomination in 2016, assuming he handles himself credibly in the campaign.  Palin received about as much negative press as possible last cycle and still would have been a formidable challenger for the nomination this year if she had tried for it.  If she had stayed as Governor of Alaska in 2008, would she have even qualified for the debates if she tried to run this time around?  

Being thrust into the national spotlight has risks as you point out.  Its easier to make fun of a V.P. because even hard core partisans aren't that invested in them.  No comedian will make of Barack Obama, but democrats will laugh at crazy Joe Biden jokes. But V.P. nominations mean national recognition and the chance to travel the country campaigning in a spotlight.  Governors have a hard time generating name recognition outside of their own state, V.P. candidates don't have that problem when they eventually  run on their own.

 

102

^ 92

Re: Half Empty

Gaius Petronius.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 10:35:09 AM EST

none

Kennedy was nominated for VP spot with Adlai Stevenson in 1956, but lost out to Estes Kevaufer. So, unlike the other people on your list, he never actually ran for the office and thus was not implicated in any losses that might have happened. LBJ got into the White House by succession, as did Ford, so even sitting in the Oval Office is only a 50/50 shot.

103

^ 92

Data Sets

uncarved block.

Thu Aug 16, 2012 at 11:08:06 AM EST

5.00 (interesting)

    Ah, I see, we're looking at the numbers in different ways. I'm looking at the people who won, not just ran or even got nominated, and that yields a whole different outlook. If we pick 1960 as the beginning of the "modern" campaign, not too controversial I hope, of the eight men who ran and won, five of them were governors, covering 34 of the last 52 years (1). Running for president is easy, and even fun if you have enough money; actually winning is a tad harder. I believe an ambitious man would look at the history and see a clear template for victory.
     I think you underestimate just how much baggage a sitting VP has to carry. Voters are likely to attribute all your successes to the president, but you'll still have to answer for all the failures-- think about Gore and the Elian Gonzalez fiasco. In the two situations where it has worked  (LBJ and Bush/41), both winners largely ran as mere continuations of popular presidents, which cleared out the typical friction-- in short, they were the exceptions that prove the rule.
    "Ryan will be the odds-on favorite to win the Republican nomination in 2016." I don't share that optimism. Given the absolute frenzy Republicans have shown toward Obama, I find it hard to believe that anyone connected to losing in 2012 will have any kind of national career for about a decade. And Ryan doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who's going to "go rogue" and use a sinking ship as a soapbox. YMMV, as your comment about Palin clearly shows :)

(1) If you take Kennedy and Johnson out as being still too much of the machine politics era, the numbers skew even stronger for the govs. When to think modern politics really begins is a hard question to pin down; I selected 1960 because of the Nixon-Kennedy debate, but you could look at Chicago 1968 and make a case that it took a long time for the old systems to fade appreciably.

Ex ignorantia ad sapientiam; e luce ad tenebras

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